You can't fly in the Dragon Isles. You can only glide and fall down with style.

[huth]

Sadly the new expansion is not named dragon isle, its called dragon flight. What means to me the main content in the open world will be that dragon flight thing. Beside the dragon flight nothing else so far announced for 10.0 open world content.

I guess you're not counting the announcement of the new Renown factions and the exploration gameplay they talked about?

And the title is likely referring to the Dragonflights and them "taking flight" and returning to their home again. Not the specific gameplay. Legion wasn't about marching in formation. Cataclysm wasn't about us running around and destroying everything... more than usual, anyway.

[DechCJC]

How about we add the ability to teleport across the map to any location in an instant? You can still fly, so it doesn’t hurt you. Just fly instead if you want to. /s

Oh oh I know, how about we add a gear vendor for raids? You can still farm the raid for the gear if you want, so it doesn’t hurt you. If you feel forced to buy gear from the vendor then you just lack self control. /S

See how stupid that sounds? Wouldn’t be surprised if people here didn’t…

I’m not saying flying shouldn’t be added again, but some of the arguments for it here are incredibly asinine.

[Herald66]

I guess you're not counting the announcement of the new Renown factions and the exploration gameplay they talked about?

And the title is likely referring to the Dragonflights and them "taking flight" and returning to their home again. Not the specific gameplay. Legion wasn't about marching in formation. Cataclysm wasn't about us running around and destroying everything... more than usual, anyway.

Well the renown factions are the dragon factions, we will hopefully see open world content beside the dragon flight system, but for me does not look like for now.

[Ilookfly]

From what we can gather dragonflying will kinda be a glorified glider at the start but as you level it up it will improve. Hopefully the final upgrades turn it in to a better way of just flying.

[huth]

Well the renown factions are the dragon factions, we will hopefully see open world content beside the dragon flight system, but for me does not look like for now.

I think you're mixing up things there. Your Dragonriding dragon is a different thing than the Dragon factions, and one example for Renown factions given was the Centaurs in Ohn'ara.

The Renown is already seperate from Dragonriding. Not all exploration will involve your dragon either, i'd wager.

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From what we can gather dragonflying will kinda be a glorified glider at the start but as you level it up it will improve. Hopefully the final upgrades turn it in to a better way of just flying.

Well, if what they said is true and the animations they showed are early level stuff...

[Teriz]

Dragonflight needs to be clarified, mainly for Dracthyr. From what I gathered, they should be able to not only glide, but gain momentum and lift. I can't imagine you would need a tutorial in the starter zone for Dracthyr flight if all you're doing is falling and gliding.

[THEORACLE64]

You mean to say people are complaining on this knock off 4chan because Blizzard has made a 17 year old feature actually fun and not just an afk swimming through the air?! what’s new.

[Dractier]

Dragonflight needs to be clarified, mainly for Dracthyr. From what I gathered, they should be able to not only glide, but gain momentum and lift. I can't imagine you would need a tutorial in the starter zone for Dracthyr flight if all you're doing is falling and gliding.

Yeah I think people are getting super confused by this, blizzard said they don’t want to call it flying because flying has a specific meaning to wow, which is static flight or floating would be a better word.

When I hear they can use momentum and lift I think of something like flying in zelda: skyward sword where if you just take your hands off the controller you are going to fall. But if you tap a button that has a stamina bar you will gain momentum and lift and you fly. But because blizzard refuses to call it flying people are thinking they mean demon hunters glide lol

[kamuimac]

I think part of the whole flying issue is the fact that they still sell mounts, flying ones at that, in the store for a chunk of change. Also, a portion of the player base have spent >=15 years farming a range of mounts, I personally don't think in any game you should lose any functionality from things you've paid for, over and above the base sub.

Personally I also think the dev's are so separated from their player base it's concerning, I watch the video's they put out and they are cringe worthy, compared to something like Yushi on FFXIV, who clearly loves that game, these fools come across as a bunch of corporate boot lickers, who are really driven my MAU numbers, which have tanked because the experience has lowered over time - they come across as fake.

I do think the grind for this expansion, after artifact in Legion, neck in BFA, etc, will be moved to the Dragonriding - they are shady with their approach to pad their MAU metric. My view is existing flying should stay, even in it's current delayed form. But, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

nah they told it upfront. just people refuse to belive that anyone can be so stupid so they still cling to false hope

they already admited they are supper happy with renown system so guess what will be most likely another thing timegated behind it -

ofc - dragongliding

you will start with gliding really slow on short dustances and eventually with renown 80 you will glide super fast on super long distances.

and they will try to sell it as main point of expansion

if i had to guess what those morons are thinking at blizzard is that your dragon will grow alongside with your renown level . and the bigger it will be the faster it will fly and on longer distances.

you give those people to much credit while last 8 years have shown that they deserve 0 faith from playerbase

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Yeah I think people are getting super confused by this, blizzard said they don’t want to call it flying because flying has a specific meaning to wow, which is static flight or floating would be a better word.

When I hear they can use momentum and lift I think of something like flying in zelda: skyward sword where if you just take your hands off the controller you are going to fall. But if you tap a button that has a stamina bar you will gain momentum and lift and you fly. But because blizzard refuses to call it flying people are thinking they mean demon hunters glide lol

nah . they think about aviana feather / rocket backpack and maybe maybe you will do few swirls in airs. probably akin to this quest in maldraxus where you "fly" on wyvern / that korthia daily with flying on drake or whatever itwas.

[Dractier]

nah they told it upfront. just people refuse to belive that anyone can be so stupid so they still cling to false hope

they already admited they are supper happy with renown system so guess what will be most likely another thing timegated behind it -

ofc - dragongliding

you will start with gliding really slow on short dustances and eventually with renown 80 you will glide super fast on super long distances.

and they will try to sell it as main point of expansion

if i had to guess what those morons are thinking at blizzard is that your dragon will grow alongside with your renown level . and the bigger it will be the faster it will fly and on longer distances.

you give those people to much credit while last 8 years have shown that they deserve 0 faith from playerbase

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nah . they think about aviana feather / rocket backpack and maybe maybe you will do few swirls in airs. probably akin to this quest in maldraxus where you "fly" on wyvern / that korthia daily with flying on drake or whatever itwas.

Yeah but those are just DH glide though none of them ‘fly’ it’s just a glide.

[huth]

nah they told it upfront. just people refuse to belive that anyone can be so stupid so they still cling to false hope

False hope of having something to shit on Blizzard with? Because you completely missed what they were talking about.

They are super happy with Renown as a replacement for the old Reputation system. Not with the timegating thing, where Ion actually said something entirely different.

[Gigantique]

I think they're gonna unlock flying eventually, my hope is that if Dragoriding is fun they make sure effective use of it curbstomps standard flying in efficiency. That's a good compromise. Flying for the lazy, More efficiency if you put in the effort!

[Biomega]

Blizzard has made a 17 year old feature actually fun

We don't know that yet. It COULD be fun, but how fun it is, and how long that fun lasts if it's built into something you need to do repeatedly and all the time (movement) is unclear.

We DO know their stated design goal isn't fun - it's gating. Not only by delaying "hard" flying, but also by delaying the "soft" flying of Dragonriding. That's a philosophy I simply disagree with on a fundamental level. Convenience should not be the target of "content"; CONTENT should be content, and convenience should simply facilitate it. I think flying vastly improves the enjoyment of content by cutting down on the non-content in between, and if exploration is something you're worried about then just design it with flying in mind - or make it fun on its own merit. I've had people bring up things like jumping puzzles before and how flying invalidates them as an element of "fun" - which makes zero sense to me, because you can still do those puzzles if flying exists by simply choosing not to use flying to circumvent them; and if people don't want to do that, then maybe just maybe these puzzles weren't actually all that fun to begin with, and they should have made something else.

[Dractier]

We don't know that yet. It COULD be fun, but how fun it is, and how long that fun lasts if it's built into something you need to do repeatedly and all the time (movement) is unclear.

We DO know their stated design goal isn't fun - it's gating. Not only by delaying "hard" flying, but also by delaying the "soft" flying of Dragonriding. That's a philosophy I simply disagree with on a fundamental level. Convenience should not be the target of "content"; CONTENT should be content, and convenience should simply facilitate it. I think flying vastly improves the enjoyment of content by cutting down on the non-content in between, and if exploration is something you're worried about then just design it with flying in mind - or make it fun on its own merit. I've had people bring up things like jumping puzzles before and how flying invalidates them as an element of "fun" - which makes zero sense to me, because you can still do those puzzles if flying exists by simply choosing not to use flying to circumvent them; and if people don't want to do that, then maybe just maybe these puzzles weren't actually all that fun to begin with, and they should have made something else.

Trust me, games that design content around things like flying are simply just not fun. There is no exploration with flying, and when there is it just simply involves a ton of travel time. WoWs gameplay is played on the ground, that’s just how it is and how it will always be. If you give people flight right out of the gate then you basically don’t have any content.

Just like you said:

Convenience should not be the target of "content"; CONTENT should be content, and convenience should simply facilitate it.

The content is the content, but with flying that content disappears. That’s just simply how it is. They wait until this content is played out and we all hit the end end game and then give us flying so we can go over it quicker. This is been explained to us for how many years now?

Because wows game is played on the ground, in order to design content “around flying” this would basically just mean putting quests and areas on different floating islands than one another, or adding towers that you have to fly up to. This is extremely boring. Instead of getting any sense of atmosphere and danger in the world you are spending 90% of your time just mindlessly flying up and down staring at the sky box to your next destination.

Wow isn’t a flying game with an mmo feature to it. It’s an mmo with a flying feature. The flying works around the mmo content, not the other way around

[Daronokk]

Flying in WoW is just swimming through the air, other games have done it much better. The dragonriding system looks like what flying always should have been.

Leave it to a fanboy to think a limitation of an existing feature is considered an upgrade.

So now they're taking away regular flying that got you everywhere you wanted and give us a crappy baseline glide system that can be improved with dragonriding skill to gain more altitude and speed? Basically first nerfing you and letting you earn back what was stolen? Yeah, that isn't an upgrade, it's a downgrade.

[Biomega]

There is no exploration with flying

I think you may be vastly overestimating how much exploration there is WITHOUT flying, too. There's barely any in WoW, maps are straightforward and rarely contain a lot of explorative elements - and where they do, you can often still have the experience with flying. In fact, you could argue that flying allows you to explore MORE since it can let you go places you otherwise couldn't (or not everyone could).

WoWs gameplay is played on the ground, that’s just how it is and how it will always be.

And that's how it still is with flying, unless you count "moving from A to B" as gameplay in which case you're technically correct but also sort of missing the point, because sitting on a ground mount navigating the terrain for 5 minutes isn't exactly engaging or interesting to most people. Doing the things at whatever destination you're headed for is.

The content is the content, but with flying that content disappears. That’s just simply how it is.

No it's not. You're making some grossly general statements here that make no sense. How does flying make CONTENT disappear? Do you really consider "I need to do a quest in spot X so let's spend 5 minutes walking up and down hills and around mountains until I can actually do that quest" CONTENT? Because THAT is the only thing that disappears, the quest does not. And if you're so attached to the walking simulator side of things - that's cool. YOU CAN STILL DO THAT WITH FLYING. You just tend to choose not to. And you know why? BECAUSE IT'S NOT ACTUALLY FUN.

[Dractier]

I think you may be vastly overestimating how much exploration there is WITHOUT flying, too. There's barely any in WoW, maps are straightforward and rarely contain a lot of explorative elements - and where they do, you can often still have the experience with flying. In fact, you could argue that flying allows you to explore MORE since it can let you go places you otherwise couldn't (or not everyone could).


And that's how it still is with flying, unless you count "moving from A to B" as gameplay in which case you're technically correct but also sort of missing the point, because sitting on a ground mount navigating the terrain for 5 minutes isn't exactly engaging or interesting to most people. Doing the things at whatever destination you're headed for is.


No it's not. You're making some grossly general statements here that make no sense. How does flying make CONTENT disappear? Do you really consider "I need to do a quest in spot X so let's spend 5 minutes walking up and down hills and around mountains until I can actually do that quest" CONTENT? Because THAT is the only thing that disappears, the quest does not. And if you're so attached to the walking simulator side of things - that's cool. YOU CAN STILL DO THAT WITH FLYING. You just tend to choose not to. And you know why? BECAUSE IT'S NOT ACTUALLY FUN.

It sounds to me like you don’t mmos then and you’re describing something more similar to an assembly line simulator where you’re just blasting through everything as efficiently as possible.

That’s fine if that’s what you enjoy, but we are discussing an mmo where the terrain and your “walking simulator” is in fact a big chunk of the content of a new expansion.

That’s fine if you disagree, you’re just wrong.

[Biomega]

It sounds to me like you don’t mmos then and you’re describing something more similar to an assembly line simulator where you’re just blasting through everything as efficiently as possible.

That's a nice blend of strawman and slippery slope, but you're not addressing what I'm saying. At all.

1. What ACTUAL content disappears with flying?
2. If movement/"exploration" is content you value, why does it disappear FOR YOU if other people who don't value that content can choose to skip it by flying?

[Dractier]

That's a nice blend of strawman and slippery slope, but you're not addressing what I'm saying. At all.

1. What ACTUAL content disappears with flying?
2. If movement/"exploration" is content you value, why does it disappear FOR YOU if other people who don't value that content can choose to skip it by flying?

I think you need to look up the definition of strawman and slippery slope because you just misused both lol.

1. The whole new area that blizzard just made? That’s what disappears. The world pvp if you are flagged for pvp. Things like if they added giant obstacles in your way of travel. You know…. Mmo atmosphere. Why am I even having to explain this?

2. I’m not the one making this decision bud so let’s take a chill pill for a second lol I’m just explaining to you (I really don’t even know why I need to), blizzards decision for doing this. Blizzard designed their new expansion for you to explore and for you to travel around and soak up all the new content they are giving you. Just because you don’t value this as content doesn’t mean it still isn’t content. And they clearly don’t WANT people just getting on flying mounts and skipping all of this. They want you to jump into the world and explore it. If that’s something that isn’t important to you, that’s fine. But you have to at least have some common sense to understand that this is an mmo and that’s completely understandable for a developer to, you know, not skip over your game?

Just be honest, you want to just skip over this stuff, you don’t care about what the world looks like or what the exploration is, you just want to get that content done as fast as humanly possible so you can jump right into the endgame. Look I get it, I use to sweat this game too, but you need to understand you’re sweating a game built for exploration… the game shouldn’t be designed around that play style.

[Biomega]

1. The whole new area that blizzard just made? That’s what disappears. The world pvp if you are flagged for pvp. Things like if they added giant obstacles in your way of travel. You know…. Mmo atmosphere. Why am I even having to explain this?

You have to explain it because you clearly don't know what you're talking about. The "whole new area" doesn't "disappear" because of flying (which is an insane thing to say considering they have pseudo-flying which they think will ENHANCE the experience). What's an "MMO atmosphere" and why does it disappear just because you can fly? You're using vague terms in ways that imply everyone knows them and their implications, but that's just a way of sidestepping the responsibility of actually explaining yourself.

2. I’m not the one making this decision bud so let’s take a chill pill for a second lol I’m just explaining to you (I really don’t even know why I need to), blizzards decision for doing this. Blizzard designed their new expansion for you to explore and for you to travel around and soak up all the new content they are giving you. Just because you don’t value this as content doesn’t mean it still isn’t content. And they clearly don’t WANT people just getting on flying mounts and skipping all of this. They want you to jump into the world and explore it. If that’s something that isn’t important to you, that’s fine. But you have to at least have some common sense to understand that this is an mmo and that’s completely understandable for a developer to, you know, not skip over your game?

So how does that answer my question? Would it not be better to give people who don't like this the option to not do it, if it means people who DO like it can still do it? And if giving that option to people means everyone takes the skip - doesn't that sort of mean there ISN'T as much value in all of this as you think? You're again just throwing empty phrases, gross generalizations, and vague assumptions - how flying somehow "skips all of this" (as opposed to, say, focusing on the coolest parts), how exploration not only has intrinsic value to everyone but is also completely invalidated by flying (neither of which is self-evident in any way), or how flying somehow means you can't/won't "soak up all the new content" (clearly not true since they're giving people pseudo-flying and portray that as a good thing). And, most egregiously of all, that somehow this being an mmo means that flying "skips over the game" when all it does it affect ONE tiny aspect of the massive genre complex that is MMORPGs.

Just be honest, you want to just skip over this stuff, you don’t care about what the world looks like or what the exploration is

That's another strawman. I care about the world, and I think exploration is cool. Where I disagree is that flying somehow completely takes those away. I in fact VEHEMENTLY disagree with it, to the point where I think flying MAKES THOSE EXPERIENCES BETTER, not worse.