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  1. #1

    STOP making the game for the top 0.01% of the players! It’s killing this game

    Why is end game content so hard? I’m seeing people having a hard time to pug normal raids. Is this the game that most people thrive in? The “average” are the soul of the community, this game is becoming depressing.

    I remember the time in which the most amount of people were actually enjoying the game, and the community was thriving, the content was extremely easy with the exception of four bosses (Mimiron, Anub, Yogg-3/0 and LK heroic) during WotLK. When Wrath was released the hardest boss was Sartharion +3 Drakes, any decently organized group could kill it, I know we did it.

    I remember really good top 1000 guilds wiping on heroic in 9.0, even after trying Beta on supposedly easy bosses on heroic. Is this the game that you REALLY want? A month after the Jailer was killed, 17 guilds have killed it. What psychos do we have working at Blizzard at the moment?

    People take satisfaction in knowing that they’ve “beaten” the game by defeating the hardest encounters. That’s not even a dream to most players. Make the highest gear attainable by all within three weeks of release of patch; The top players already have the titles, mounts, achievements and glory. Stop licking their boots so hard. Game is in a terrible state. I remember Sunwell Plateau was the most brutal raid at the time, even the trash was a nightmare. They nerfed everything by 30% (don’t recall exactly) allowing most people to do it WELL ahead of Wrath. That should happen three weeks after the first kill across ALL difficulties. And just tune down bosses… What is this? I’m typing this as I leave of a heroic diefest on Anduin, and people weren’t awful.

    I’m glad that popular youtubers including Asmongold are starting to point this out. You’ve made the game for 200 people, congratulations.

  2. #2
    You killed Sarth +3 after outgearing it. Do the same with the new raids

  3. #3
    I am Murloc! Motorman's Avatar
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    You make some great points but I think there is already a similar thread that discusses it at the moment : https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ayer-base-quot

  4. #4
    Yes, Heroic Sepulcher was hard week one when people had to adjust to losing dom slots and not face rolling content, which was soon nerfed anyway. More news at 11.
    Quote Originally Posted by verylargeprime View Post
    Blizzard needs to purge the furries from their art and design teams. Dracthyr design has furry hack artist stench all over it.
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    This is your fault.

  5. #5
    Seems you are upset that there is a mythic difficulty for raids? Are you saying the game would be better if it just vanished? Not sure I believe that.

    I do think a weekly scaling buff like the one ICC had would be a good change.

  6. #6
    Making something so hard only a small portion of players (the people who are ACTUALLY FUCKING GOOD at the game) is not "catering" to them. It's throwing them a bone so they don't get bored and quit.

    I agree about gear being a reward, though, but I disagree whole-heartedly about making the bar for the game low enough that normal people can do the hardest stuff. I wouldn't touch an MMO if it didn't have epeen stuff attached to it. I'm here to compete and lord over others.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by LedZeppelin View Post
    Seems you are upset that there is a mythic difficulty for raids? Are you saying the game would be better if it just vanished? Not sure I believe that.

    I do think a weekly scaling buff like the one ICC had would be a good change.
    Not sure if it would be better but really how many people would care? Not many.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Not sure if it would be better but really how many people would care? Not many.
    Having aspirational goals (things most will never accomplish) that don't really affect anything else is good for a game, specifically MMOs, IMO.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Airickson View Post
    You killed Sarth +3 after outgearing it. Do the same with the new raids
    Nope. We were top 5 in the server.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by stutt- View Post
    Why is end game content so hard? I’m seeing people having a hard time to pug normal raids. Is this the game that most people thrive in? The “average” are the soul of the community, this game is becoming depressing.

    I remember the time in which the most amount of people were actually enjoying the game, and the community was thriving, the content was extremely easy with the exception of four bosses (Mimiron, Anub, Yogg-3/0 and LK heroic) during WotLK. When Wrath was released the hardest boss was Sartharion +3 Drakes, any decently organized group could kill it, I know we did it.

    I remember really good top 1000 guilds wiping on heroic in 9.0, even after trying Beta on supposedly easy bosses on heroic. Is this the game that you REALLY want? A month after the Jailer was killed, 17 guilds have killed it. What psychos do we have working at Blizzard at the moment?

    People take satisfaction in knowing that they’ve “beaten” the game by defeating the hardest encounters. That’s not even a dream to most players. Make the highest gear attainable by all within three weeks of release of patch; The top players already have the titles, mounts, achievements and glory. Stop licking their boots so hard. Game is in a terrible state. I remember Sunwell Plateau was the most brutal raid at the time, even the trash was a nightmare. They nerfed everything by 30% (don’t recall exactly) allowing most people to do it WELL ahead of Wrath. That should happen three weeks after the first kill across ALL difficulties. And just tune down bosses… What is this? I’m typing this as I leave of a heroic diefest on Anduin, and people weren’t awful.

    I’m glad that popular youtubers including Asmongold are starting to point this out. You’ve made the game for 200 people, congratulations.
    Pointless coming to MMOC forums with this. Apparently this forum is FULL of that 0.01%. It's all you ever seem to read is the tripe replies from "HARDCORE" raiders, who claim they clear content, complete massive keys etc etc, but yet they only play casually for 3 hours a week. Anyone else is unskilled and should uninstall. Sure thing brother.

  11. #11
    the only 0.01% I'm seeing here is the 0.01% the game isn't designed for.

    If you have severe mental and motor disabilities to the point where you consider content to be this hard, it's not the fault of the game

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Stockers View Post
    Pointless coming to MMOC forums with this. Apparently this forum is FULL of that 0.01%. It's all you ever seem to read is the tripe replies from "HARDCORE" raiders, who claim they clear content, complete massive keys etc etc, but yet they only play casually for 3 hours a week. Anyone else is unskilled and should uninstall. Sure thing brother.
    So is the WoW Forums apparently. Apparently only CE raiders ever post anything anywhere. Meanwhile back on the WoW ranch, record low sub numbers. But don't worry we'll make sure they have that uber hard content they love!

  13. #13
    The interesting question is why does no one ever offer feedback on normal and mythic 0 and instead insist on whining about mythic raiding?

    Content that is simply heroic with a few new abilities?

  14. #14
    I find it offensive how they tune the raids for the "world race" and then go and nerf it over and over again until it's balanced for normal players.

    Also, why was the tier crafting closed for 8 weeks? Cause the world first raiders would abuse it. Why? Why does this game get designed for an event every 6 months. It's so disrespectful. It's no wonder players left.

  15. #15
    Is it the top 0.01%? or the top 5%? Thats a HUGE difference.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I find it offensive how they tune the raids for the "world race" and then go and nerf it over and over again until it's balanced for normal players.

    Also, why was the tier crafting closed for 8 weeks? Cause the world first raiders would abuse it. Why? Why does this game get designed for an event every 6 months. It's so disrespectful. It's no wonder players left.
    You dont REALLY think THAT is the reason people left, do you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by stutt- View Post
    Nope. We were top 5 in the server.
    Quote Originally Posted by stutt- View Post
    When Wrath was released the hardest boss was Sartharion +3 Drakes, any decently organized group could kill it, I know we did it.
    Do you not recognize that you were the top 0.01% of the playerbase at the time? You don't get to say anyone could do 3 drakes on release if they were organized enough, then turn around and say people can't beat current content. They can if they're organized enough, apparently.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    The interesting question is why does no one ever offer feedback on normal and mythic 0 and instead insist on whining about mythic raiding?

    Content that is simply heroic with a few new abilities?
    Based on that logic, mythic is just LFR with a few new abilities.....Lets not pretend the only difference between clearing mythic and clearing LFR is "a few new abilities"
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stutt- View Post
    Why is end game content so hard? I’m seeing people having a hard time to pug normal raids.
    There is a significant difference between the game being hard and people being absolutely dogshit. Normal raids in general are not hard.

    Pugs are consistently full of players who are absolutely terrible at the game. I'm not talking "I'm not good enough for heroic" terrible, I'm talking "I literally keyboard turn and click abilities" terrible.

    I've played this game since 1.7 and have had the fortune to play with some really good players and the misfortune to play with some absolutely fucking awful ones.

    The type of player who dies on EVERY encounter because they stand in fire on EVERY single attempt despite being told exactly what they are doing wrong. The type of player who cannot dodge exploding stuff on the floor and die every single time, every single attempt.

    These are the sorts of players that go into PUGS and then complain that the game is hard. It's not hard, they are just god-fucking-awful because they are completely incapable of learning from their mistakes even when they are being handheld.

    Some players are just bad, pure and simple. There are plenty of 'casual' players that are genuinely really good players, and there are plenty of 'hardcore' players that are genuinely total dogshit. The difficulty of content has less of an impact than people think.

    Coincidentally and related, I can name the absolute worst player in my guild at the time of us doing Sartharion (but I won't nameshame incase he frequents these forums) and this is 14 years later. He would die on basically every single pull without fail. I can't remember but it would genuinely not suprise me if he died on the actual 3d kill also. No matter what we said, whether from getting breathed on, or getting hit by ground shit, or even just being hit by the fucking flame waves he would ALWAYS die, and the same would happen in the majority of other raid encounters during WoTLK. If I hadn't given up raid leading in TBC because of the hassle, he wouldn't be getting an invite to my raids in Wrath. Like him, some people are just incapable at playing the game.
    Last edited by Lollis; 2022-04-20 at 08:35 PM.
    Speciation Is Gradual

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by stutt- View Post
    Nope. We were top 5 in the server.
    For years my friends and family guild were the 4th best raiding guild on the server. We never cleared heroic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  20. #20
    The argument about WoW difficulty isn't like the difficulty arguments of a game like Elden Ring. Totally different. ER is mostly a single player experience in pve. In WoW, quite often the problem isn't with the majority of the raid members, it's one or two people, or perhaps even the leadership in your guild or pug.

    In Elden Ring, to improve, you can git gud.

    In WoW, you have to change guilds or drop/re-pugs. This is anti-social behavior. WoW is a social game, but having to leave your friends/current group and play with strangers to improve your character, is anathema to mmo design in general.

    I'm not sure what the answer is. In the past the content was easy, and a fun time was had. However, "people got better" or whatever you call that thing that happened to society during wow, and suddenly skill gap, meta, and skill cap was a major issue with the game. However, that is a societal/gaming issue not exclusive to wow or its development.

    In extending one aspect of wow, the challenge, the game seems to go out of its way to fracture the community along the lines of player skill. This of course leads to greater rifts and a lack of compassion, and generally a less desirably community overall. Anyone reading this knows that is unsustainable, however an easy mmo for casuals is even more unsustainable, so I'm not sure what can be done. Sorry I don't have all the answers. Git gud at game development I guess. Currently some of the mechanics in the game lead directly to social friction and that is clearly not ideal.

    How have other MMOs dealt with this? I'm not sure they have? Final Fantasy seems to attempt to prevent skill assessment so that poor players can't be weeded out. The cat is out of the bag, as it were, for that solution in wow. Destiny 2 has a similar problem with their raiding system that wow does. Which MMO has gotten this right in the dour days of meta?
    Last edited by Zenfoldor; 2022-04-20 at 08:47 PM.

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