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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azharok View Post
    Except there is no barrier to entry for mythic raiding .... so your comparison doesn't work.
    LOL oh wait you're being serious... I mean ANYBODY can be babe ruth right? Seriously casual hall of famers hahahahaha. I mean we can test this out. I'm in the game right now. I'm not in a mythic raid. Please provide the steps on how to get into one.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2022-04-27 at 05:14 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    LOL oh wait you're being serious... I mean ANYBODY can be babe ruth right? Seriously casual hall of famers hahahahaha. I mean we can test this out. I'm in the game right now. I'm not in a mythic raid. Please provide the steps on how to get into one.
    You're moving the post, I never said you'd kill a boss in mythic raiding, I said there is no barrier to entry. At most you join or form a guild that raids mythic, boom you're a mythic raider.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    this change is to help players like you..... you know..night elf with tyrannical beheader...

    Azharok - Dalaran EU

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azharok View Post
    . At most you join or form a guild that raids mythic, boom you're a mythic raider.
    I mean you're missing more qute a few but right off the bat you just provided one so yea no barriers to entry is bullshut.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #264
    They also nerf things into the ground over time.
    In the world series comparison, it'd be like the pitcher takes 10mph off their pitch everytime you get a strike. At some point they actually just put it on a tee in front of you. Now, you can still argue that a casual enough player will have a hard time hitting the ball, but at some point you just have to say that maybe this isn't the game for them if even that is too difficult (the latter portion there maybe leaning more towards inability to progress even normal raid late into a patch)
    Last edited by Spazzix; 2022-04-27 at 05:31 PM.
    SorryNotSorry

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I mean you're missing more qute a few but right off the bat you just provided one so yea no barriers to entry is bullshut.
    You can't play beer league softball alone... I don't see how that can't equate to joining or forming a guild...
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    this change is to help players like you..... you know..night elf with tyrannical beheader...

    Azharok - Dalaran EU

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azharok View Post
    You can't play beer league softball alone... I don't see how that can't equate to joining or forming a guild...
    Yes they both have barriers to entry. Congratulations. You undermined your own argument.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yes they both have barriers to entry. Congratulations. You undermined your own argument.
    No "significantly difficult" barriers to entry if you wanna be pedantic abt it.

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    No "significantly difficult" barriers to entry if you wanna be pedantic abt it.
    Finding a guild that meets your schedule, on your server, that needs your role, that you get along with can be a significantly difficult barrier to entry and isn't the only one.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Finding a guild that meets your schedule, on your server, that needs your role, that you get along with can be a significantly difficult barrier to entry and isn't the only one.
    "/4 LFM mythic sotfo, gonna try and get the first boss down."

    Whoa, crazy. Can even do it on the lfg finder tool if you're on a big realm. Or wait til it opens xrealm

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    "/4 LFM mythic sotfo, gonna try and get the first boss down."

    Whoa, crazy. Can even do it on the lfg finder tool if you're on a big realm. Or wait til it opens xrealm
    And nobody replies because ya know I play at odd hours or my server is dead or they look at my achieves and laugh at me or the 100 other reasons that approach basically never works. This still for the record represents a barrier to entry, one you seem to think is easy to overcome but the actual mythic raid completion argues otherwise.

    /lfm world series gonna try and get 1 game in
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2022-04-27 at 05:43 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yes they both have barriers to entry. Congratulations. You undermined your own argument.
    Well once we've established that raiding is a group activity, one of the pre-requisites is a group to actually perform the content. It doesn't undermine my argument.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Finding a guild that meets your schedule, on your server, that needs your role, that you get along with can be a significantly difficult barrier to entry and isn't the only one.
    This is all subjective. I can use the same argument for your dumb example.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    And nobody replies because ya know I play at odd hours or my server is dead or they look at my achieves and laugh at me or the 100 other reasons that approach basically never works. This still for the record represents a barrier to entry, one you seem to think is easy to overcome but the actual mythic raid completion argues otherwise.

    /lfm world series gonna try and get 1 game in
    More excuses...

    If you wanted to raid mythic, you could (as long as you have an active sub), if you don't want too, that's fine too. But don't try and tell me that it's impossible, or reserved for the 0.01%. I don't agree with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    this change is to help players like you..... you know..night elf with tyrannical beheader...

    Azharok - Dalaran EU

  12. #272
    I can only agree that LFR Sepulcher was way overtuned. So probably normal and heroic are as well though I did not do them yet. But imho mythic should stay for the 0,01%.

    It was really annoying to wipe constantly in LFR when Ijust wanted to see the place (retired mythic raider). Few of them were even caused by something as stupid as people watching cinematics while tank started encounter.

    But many more because (1) a lot of unavoidable AoE dmg going around and healers aren't min/maxed, (2) these players dont use addons but LFR seems to be tuned around that and (3) the dps is just horrid as expected but there were clear soft dps checks that honestly I could not see a single LFR group I had meet without determination stacks and (4) 1 tank failing screwing up whole raid.

    Imho LFR should be more punishing/focussed on individual play so they improve themselves. So if at least half the tanks, dps and healers perform average they should be able to make it. 1 tank failing mind control or taunt/stacks wiping the whole raid is not good tuning for LFR level.

    Then again, never understood this 2 tank meta in this game since WoTLK. In classic/TBC we had 4-5 tanks.

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azharok View Post
    Well once we've established that raiding is a group activity, one of the pre-requisites is a group to actually perform the content. It doesn't undermine my argument.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is all subjective. I can use the same argument for your dumb example.

    - - - Updated - - -



    More excuses...

    If you wanted to raid mythic, you could (as long as you have an active sub), if you don't want too, that's fine too. But don't try and tell me that it's impossible, or reserved for the 0.01%. I don't agree with that.
    Baseball is also a group activity. All world series players. Of course their a barriers to entry in baseball but to say their aren't any in raiding is equally stupid.

    You can call them excuses that doesn't not change the fact that they remain as barriers to entry. It is implicitly reserved for the .0001% and this fantasy you've deluded yourself with is hilarious. Everyone can be elon musk too right?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #274
    Why are some of you pretending being a mythic raider and a world first racer are synonyms? They're....they're really not?

    I can't speak for all of the other casuals out there but at least one group of "casual mythic raiders" did exist, I was part of them. We didn't just wipe on the first boss and call ourselves mythic raiders either, we cleared raids (slow as hell and with hilarious amounts of wiping and regularly losing raiders to higher end guilds) but dammit we did it and had fun doing it. That was in Wod though, schedule got screwy and unpredictable so I stopped raiding. pugs for me since then.

    There are absolutely barriers to entry in raids. most of them perfectly reasonable, some of them regrettable not so much. It doesn't feel great when I'm denied a spot in a normal raid because they're looking for people who've already cleared it on mythic for <insert irrelevant reason here>. Maybe they're trying to gear an alt, maybe they're in a hurry, maybe they just want to get carried, like I said- irrelevant.

    Most of the time I'll just make my own group posting and will be upfront about not wanting to raid lead. You'd be shocked how many folks are perfectly willing to do that bit for me. Hell more often than not there are at least 3 people who argue over which of them is in charge without my asking lol. I just want to raid and do my job, I'm not interested to challenging egos, most people aren't jerks by default they're just trying to play the way they have fun. They've chosen to join my group so they'll either accept that I'm not kitted out in BiS already or they'll drop and find another group. For the ones who do act like jerks, yes I see them too, there's /ignore.

    What would be nice is better tools for finding guilds and communities (hell I completely freakin forgot communities EXISTED until someone brought them up in this thread! I'm going to go look for some when I get off work tonight rofl)
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Azharok View Post
    Except there is no barrier to entry for mythic raiding .... so your comparison doesn't work.
    This is an amazingly stupid statement.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Merin View Post
    This is an amazingly stupid statement.
    Yeah, but the barriers are really low nowadays TBH.

  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by azka View Post
    Yeah, but the barriers are really low nowadays TBH.
    really? man i sure here alot of noise about being forced to do other content to be able to run mythic raiding...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    really? man i sure here alot of noise about being forced to do other content to be able to run mythic raiding...
    Well, you can get the full 4p set without having to touch the raid. That's super friendly tbh.

  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by azka View Post
    Well, you can get the full 4p set without having to touch the raid. That's super friendly tbh.
    But all I want to do is raid log and not participate in literally any other aspect of the game.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    But all I want to do is raid log and not participate in literally any other aspect of the game.
    Oh, you want to be carried.

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