STOP making the game for the top 0.01% of the players! It’s killing this game

[ulululu]

Why is end game content so hard? I’m seeing people having a hard time to pug normal raids. Is this the game that most people thrive in? The “average” are the soul of the community, this game is becoming depressing.

I remember the time in which the most amount of people were actually enjoying the game, and the community was thriving, the content was extremely easy with the exception of four bosses (Mimiron, Anub, Yogg-3/0 and LK heroic) during WotLK. When Wrath was released the hardest boss was Sartharion +3 Drakes, any decently organized group could kill it, I know we did it.

I remember really good top 1000 guilds wiping on heroic in 9.0, even after trying Beta on supposedly easy bosses on heroic. Is this the game that you REALLY want? A month after the Jailer was killed, 17 guilds have killed it. What psychos do we have working at Blizzard at the moment?

People take satisfaction in knowing that they’ve “beaten” the game by defeating the hardest encounters. That’s not even a dream to most players. Make the highest gear attainable by all within three weeks of release of patch; The top players already have the titles, mounts, achievements and glory. Stop licking their boots so hard. Game is in a terrible state. I remember Sunwell Plateau was the most brutal raid at the time, even the trash was a nightmare. They nerfed everything by 30% (don’t recall exactly) allowing most people to do it WELL ahead of Wrath. That should happen three weeks after the first kill across ALL difficulties. And just tune down bosses… What is this? I’m typing this as I leave of a heroic diefest on Anduin, and people weren’t awful.

I’m glad that popular youtubers including Asmongold are starting to point this out. You’ve made the game for 200 people, congratulations.

Bro what are you even trying to say? Would you be so kind to leave others in peace with what they feel they need to achieve for their personal taste?

You're contradicting yourself btw, you yourself set your limits and decide wether or not cutting edge or 0,1% seasonal mythic + cutoff is your goal or not.

You are not complaining about the game revolving around the "0,1%" of players, you are just complaining about it NOT revolving around YOU.

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Trash casuals play this game for couple weeks. They lvl, see the dungeons and thats it. There is nothing else to do.

So stop pretending game is designed for casuals.

Game is designed for addicted players with low standards.

Thats what the game is designed for.

A trash video game casual player play other games.

They dont want to catch yellow rabbits in korthia or fly around waiting for rares that are not rare at all.

If it's trash for tiny minds with low standards then why are you experiencing it? And if you are not then how comes that you feel qualified enough to make such a verdict?

[Lex Icon]

Why are you trying to take away gear from mythic raiders?? We're not trying to take away your world quest gear. Do you want the game to die?

why do you need better gear? there's no tier above mythic. you're done.

[Thalsarion]

Why are you trying to take away gear from mythic raiders?? We're not trying to take away your world quest gear. Do you want the game to die?

No in fact we would like it to stop doing what it's doing right now which is dying if at all possible.

[potis]

why do you need better gear? there's no tier above mythic. you're done.

Its mostly because of the design since the start, the gear skips most of the next patch shenanigans.

Average player returning to the patch -- >Spend hours playing catch up before even trying the new things-->Get burnt out.

Active Player-->Already overgearing the irrelevant world content -->Start spamming M+10s and gain 10 ilvls the first week, unlocked M+, gain another 5-10 ilvl the second week as any self-respecting actual player should be doing in terms of the last 3 expansions, before that it was the same, just with only raids.

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The gear of Mythic raid has been taken away already by 15s and m+ in general. Gearing and rewards from Mythic are nothing worth pursuing due to how the reward structure is.

Mythic needs rewards, but something you can literally get only there. And actually the same should happen for rhings like +22/25.

But thats the point of the whole system that the majority doesnt understand.

The way the game is designed, you must want to raid Mythic to even bother with it, as intended, only difference i have seen last 3 expansions?

The average good Mythic Raider in current patch numbers is 270-275 the first ~3-4 weeks and is mostly done gearing up apart from you know, trinket this, vault that, the average Heroic Raider with basic luck is done 4-5 weeks after that with vault and this and that to reach the same item level.

And thats good.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

But thats the point of the whole system that the majority doesnt understand.

The way the game is designed, you must want to raid Mythic to even bother with it, as intended, only difference i have seen last 3 expansions?

The average good Mythic Raider in current patch numbers is 270-275 the first ~3-4 weeks and is mostly done gearing up apart from you know, trinket this, vault that, the average Heroic Raider with basic luck is done 4-5 weeks after that with vault and this and that to reach the same item level.

And thats good.

This is really true and it's weird to me how many people here don't realize it or something?

Friend of mine mythic raids in an average guild that's cleared like half of the bosses, while I only do m+ (and started the patch two weeks late). He was basically "ahead" of me for less than a month, and by now there's effectively no difference. I have 3 characters with 4pc at 273-271-271 and he's like 275.

I actually raided in BFA and it was the same - my m+ only characters were like +/- 2% of my raid characters after a couple months. And it was great because I could play them in tough keys too!

Outside of a few boutique items like the jailer weapon or a trinket, mythic raids only award meaningful gear progression to like the top 100 guilds or so. Everyone else is propped up by the vault and/or valor items.

And yet people still raid mythic! Because a lot of people actually really enjoy it. And personally, whether I'm raiding or not, I don't think there's any problem with this. Progression is fun if you have the time. If it's not, you can just pug dungeons and be fine. Multiple paths already exist!

I'd have no problem with adding more cosmetics and stuff, that's always a cool thing. But it's weird the way people don't seem to realize how few people actually get consistent rewards from mythic raiding.

[potis]

snip

Because its easier to blame the game and everything else but yourself, real life reflects in game, or as i like to call it, people refuse to be bad or branded a loser at one more thing in their life, so the game, the devs, the community must be at fault or else they have to accept they are failing once more.

The game has 1 true requirement, and thats to not be a selfish entitled human and to find similarly minded people and enjoy the game as its intended.

[Thalsarion]

Because its easier to blame the game and everything else but yourself, real life reflects in game, or as i like to call it, people refuse to be bad or branded a loser at one more thing in their life, so the game, the devs, the community must be at fault or else they have to accept they are failing once more.

The game has 1 true requirement, and thats to not be a selfish entitled human and to find similarly minded people and enjoy the game as its intended.

Thats great and all, but how is that working out for wow playerbase over the last couple of years?

[potis]

Thats great and all, but how is that working out for wow playerbase over the last couple of years?

Works great for me actually, my own bubble of decently skilled players that keep coming back every patch to get AoTC and back to raid break has been working wonders.

In reality the 1-shot mechanic fights give us a headache cause some of the players are getting older , no better way to say it, not improving as the game progresses, but they have been with me for 6-8 years so i am not gonna abandon them, its just HC.

No one gives a rat ass about the rest of the players, if the game stops having updates cause supposedly all you amazing "Casuals" quit, then i will simply wont resub if there is no new raid.

You guys are acting that if you personally dont resub, the game will close its servers, TOMORROW.

Relax special snowflake, no one cares, as i said in another post, you guys buy the expansion, 6 months of sub, tokens, mounts, store pets, and then "I AM UNSUBBING BLIZZARD", after dropping 150-250$ in 2 months, acting superior about it, completely braindead.

[Thalsarion]

Works great for me actually, my own bubble...

Wasn't my question

[Lex Icon]

yeah i know it was just a bad comparison of the typical responses around here concerning gear.

[potis]

Wasn't my question

I gave you the correct answer, who cares about the WoW playerbase when it doesnt matter at what level it is, when the people i have gathered over years are there? Or is it to hard to grasp in your tiny head that you are supposed to find people to play with that are either equally good, or equally bad as you?

Or you can create a new account on mmo-champion, to keep trying to increase your echo chamber of how M+5 is hard and those big bad boosters are the problem, DAMN SATAN, PRETENDING TO BE ION AND PERSONALLY DESTROYING THE GAME FOR THALSARION.

And edit: Damn those pesky boosters for world inflation!

[NineSpine]

It predominantly is though for casual and solo players until the alliance raid comes out and even that is basically lfr with the difficulty afterwards immediately jumping to around heroic levels.

Battlegrounds also offer honor gear though and isn't the problem here that people whine about not wanting to play the dungeon content that offers an endgame loop? With Professions you are right currently but blizz already announced to fix that. But generally wow offers plenty of optionsfor solo and casual players to reach around normal raid levels of itemlevel with some heroic level pieces. Thats not that much worse than the quality of gear you would get in ff14 if we would put both side by side and there are more means to obtain it. The only quality fully unobtainable for casuals is mythic level gear outside of BoEs

Things I used to be able to do for a casual endgame loop in WoW:
1. Queue for dungeons
2. Queue for battlegrounds
3. Progressions
4. Reputations

None of those are valuable anymore. You outgear them moments after hitting max level. That is the problem. You reach normal raid item level by sneezing in the direction of the game. It's not a loop. They just throw the gear at you immediately and tell you to go do M+, heroic/mythic raids, or rated pvp if you want anything more.

[Thalsarion]

I gave you the correct answer, who cares about the WoW playerbase

If your correct answer is "who cares about the wow playerbase" when we are talking about ways to bring more people back as well as have the game enjoyable for yourself and more people in general then idk why you're even attempting to say anything. The only thing you have to offer is "I like it so the game is good" while plugging your ears and ignoring anything anyone else has to say.

[potis]

If your correct answer is "who cares about the wow playerbase" when we are talking about ways to bring more people back as well as have the game enjoyable for yourself and more people in general then idk why you're even attempting to say anything. The only thing you have to offer is "I like it so the game is good" while plugging your ears and ignoring anything anyone else has to say.

But they will come back either way, i dont understand why you think mmo-champion reflects reality even the least, plus its full of addicted WoW-haters that resub every expansion or patch either way, despite what they post on here.

The game cant be enjoyable to someone that expects to play golf in a basketball court, complaining there isnt enough space and he demands they make space cause he will leave the area otherwise.

Good riddance.

[Thalsarion]

But they will come back either way, i dont understand why you think mmo-champion reflects reality even the least, plus its full of addicted WoW-haters that resub every expansion or patch either way, despite what they post on here.

The game cant be enjoyable to someone that expects to play golf in a basketball court, complaining there isnt enough space and he demands they make space cause he will leave the area otherwise.

Good riddance.

Yeah except the past couple expansions have shown that they aren’t coming back anymore. Participation has been at an all time low for awhile now. Populations from all sources that we can possibly gather have all shown that people just straight up aren’t playing anymore.

So if you want to sit there and act like it’s killing it, that’s fine. But it isn’t. The game USE to work like this where it was way more casual friendly and the game was extremely popular. The moment that changed is when people quit.

[potis]

Yeah except the past couple expansions have shown that they aren’t coming back anymore. Participation has been at an all time low for awhile now. Populations from all sources that we can possibly gather have all shown that people just straight up aren’t playing anymore.

So if you want to sit there and act like it’s killing it, that’s fine. But it isn’t. The game USE to work like this where it was way more casual friendly and the game was extremely popular. The moment that changed is when people quit.

Its the same as it has been every expansion, what are you talking about? First couple of months was the same as every previous expansion as expected, then a few months after people started quitting as expected, only difference this time, we were still under covid and people needed a new fix which other MMOs gave.

If those other MMOs are what people are looking for, great for them, Guild Wars 2 is my single player MMO, cause i dont care about it apart from the main story line and since its B2P, its perfect for me, when we stop raiding for 2-3 months, i go there and finish the latest storylines.

But i dont go to GW2 forums to remove the raids cause i dont wanna do them.

Obviously its a different game, but my point stands, if the game doesnt offer you what you want, unsub, come back when it does, unsub again.

As most of the people you think "leave" are doing, generally the WoW population is also dwilding cause the new generation isnt really interested, and the older people eventually stop, for multiple reasons.

[Echo of Soul]

Things I used to be able to do for a casual endgame loop in WoW:
1. Queue for dungeons
2. Queue for battlegrounds
3. Progressions
4. Reputations

None of those are valuable anymore. You outgear them moments after hitting max level. That is the problem. You reach normal raid item level by sneezing in the direction of the game. It's not a loop. They just throw the gear at you immediately and tell you to go do M+, heroic/mythic raids, or rated pvp if you want anything more.

So you want the game to give you less gear?

[NineSpine]

So you want the game to give you less gear?

I'd like the activities I enjoy to have a reward for doing them.

The problem is that if you just make that stage of gearing take a long time, you can only do it three ways:

1. Increase the length of the ladder at that stage of progression.
2. Make gearing at this stage take longer through scarcity.
3. Allow casual content to dole out rewards further up the ladder over time.

Solution 1 causes even more gear inflation, which is a serious problem already.
Solution 2 forces players that want to do challenging content to spend weeks or months stuck in this stage of gearing before they get to the content they want.
Solution 3 is the only viable one that doesn't cause secondary problems.

[relaxok]

Mythic players are way more than 0.1% of the player base. Today its more likely that you can swap the numbers and remove the dot, 10%.

In SoO 9000 guilds killed at least one boss on mythic. 22k on normal. We are closing in on half of the amount of normal players(41%ish).

This is just because heroic guilds often do like the first boss or two of Mythic.. that doesn't make them mythic guilds..

[Diaphin]

Things I used to be able to do for a casual endgame loop in WoW:
1. Queue for dungeons
2. Queue for battlegrounds
3. Progressions
4. Reputations

None of those are valuable anymore. You outgear them moments after hitting max level. That is the problem. You reach normal raid item level by sneezing in the direction of the game. It's not a loop. They just throw the gear at you immediately and tell you to go do M+, heroic/mythic raids, or rated pvp if you want anything more.

You understand that m+ are dungeons? Like, they are dungeons, you can get endgame itemlevel gear through playing dungeons. Thats the whole reason m+ exist, to have an endgame loop centered around just playing dungeons. You also can get I think it was around itemlevel 259? Itemlevel though honor, therefore normal battlegrounds. You can get one itemlevel 260 slot as well as your legendary slot though professions and reputatation vendors always weren't that worthwile because you were likely to have better gear when you reached the required reputation.

So basically, you have options. Not to forget that it takes quite some grind to reach 252 item level, so no, you're lying here. Its an alternative for solo players to farm gear at raid level, not really something that fully replaced the normal mode. So whats the problem, there's quite the gameplay loop here. You can even reach heroic itemlevel through the weekly mythic dungeons event which only require m0 dungeons. you just can't get regular heroic item level gear or any mythic item level stuff without doing organized and challenging content.