STOP making the game for the top 0.01% of the players! It’s killing this game

[conkrete]

That wouldn't be a problem if Mythic raiders wouldn't SIM a ridiculous amount higher in dps as OP and others pointed out in the past. The difference between the best mythic gear and the best attainable gear through m+ shouldn't be higher than 5%.

[cparle87]

You understand that m+ are dungeons? Like, they are dungeons, you can get endgame itemlevel gear through playing dungeons. Thats the whole reason m+ exist, to have an endgame loop centered around just playing dungeons. You also can get I think it was around itemlevel 259? Itemlevel though honor, therefore normal battlegrounds. You can get one itemlevel 260 slot as well as your legendary slot though professions and reputatation vendors always weren't that worthwile because you were likely to have better gear when you reached the required reputation.

So basically, you have options. Not to forget that it takes quite some grind to reach 252 item level, so no, you're lying here. Its an alternative for solo players to farm gear at raid level, not really something that fully replaced the normal mode. So whats the problem, there's quite the gameplay loop here. You can even reach heroic itemlevel through the weekly mythic dungeons event which only require m0 dungeons. you just can't get regular heroic item level gear or any mythic item level stuff without doing organized and challenging content.

Note the "queue for dungeons." He either wants zeros added to random dungeon finder, or random heroic giving the best gear in the game.

There's been arguments in this very thread claiming that solo players have no progression curve at all because the curve ends sooner than raiders and key runners.

[Echo of Soul]

Note the "queue for dungeons." He either wants zeros added to random dungeon finder, or random heroic giving the best gear in the game.

There's been arguments in this very thread claiming that solo players have no progression curve at all because the curve ends sooner than raiders and key runners.

That's stupid. Solo players don't deserve gear. Either do mythic or stop crying.

[Primitive]

I think one of the main issues is just that they've done a horrible job on getting more people invested in group content. The most fun I've had in WoW has always been with my friends from Vanilla through Cata and starting MoP most of us just got caught up in real life. I still like to play WoW but if I can invest 5 hours a week in playing than I've had a very good week.But over the years every social aspect has been removed from WoW. Back in the day, you could group up and by the time you arrived at the dungeon you already had some banter with the people in your party. You got to know some new people, there was always a little bit of downtime in a dungeon when your party ran OoM. Now every piece of group content is designed around the priniciple that it has to be a loot pinata that you can repeat as quickly as possible. Pull as much mobs as you can AOE them down, bossfight, rince and repeat, bye everybody, queue again,...

But there's like no time to just chill for a moment, because if you accidentally miss a mechanic there's like always one of those try-hard basement dwellers in your group who immediately goes berserk and feels the need to start bothering you in chat or through whispers. And well I'm 37 years old, I'm really way past the point on caring about what some random dude on the internet has to say about me. But I think it's something that when it happens might demotivate someone else from really diving deeper into group content. Guild finder and communities are a barren joke. There's really no decent system in place to actually try and interact with other human beings on a casual level and god forbid maybe find someone who you'd enjoy playing with.

And this is just a stupid thought, but why don't they do something with the inns in the capital cities. Make the buildings larger, have tables with a different number of seats at them. You sit at a table, you auto-join a party and you just chat and see if your ideas on having a good time match and off you go to do some group stuff or you talk to someone else. Have an inn for social interactions, create another inn that would be known for the mythic crowd. But people come together in the game and then you can form communities or guilds or whatever. And well maybe there are 4 other 35+ year old dads out there, who wouldn't mind spending a super casual time on a discord chat, doing some low end mythics, while we're all having a beer at home, not giving a shit when things go wrong and just blaming our wives.

I wouldn't mind but the game really has lackluster tools for people to come together and have a good time together. Fix this issue and you'll see a lot less people complaining that the game is only designed for a small portion of the community.

[Diaphin]

Note the "queue for dungeons." He either wants zeros added to random dungeon finder, or random heroic giving the best gear in the game.

There's been arguments in this very thread claiming that solo players have no progression curve at all because the curve ends sooner than raiders and key runners.

To be honest, I think adding zeroes to random dungeon finder wouldn't be that much of a problem and maybe help making m+ dungeons more accessible, when people get keystones they may be more inclined to try it out. m0 isn't that hard after all and it has no timer, I would absolutely rate it around lfr difficulty.

[Hauzhi]

Bro what are you even trying to say? Would you be so kind to leave others in peace with what they feel they need to achieve for their personal taste?

You're contradicting yourself btw, you yourself set your limits and decide wether or not cutting edge or 0,1% seasonal mythic + cutoff is your goal or not.

You are not complaining about the game revolving around the "0,1%" of players, you are just complaining about it NOT revolving around YOU.

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If it's trash for tiny minds with low standards then why are you experiencing it? And if you are not then how comes that you feel qualified enough to make such a verdict?

Well.

I play this game since launch day in europe.
In wotlk I had 360 days played.

Since then I havent missed a single expansion as a trash casual. So.. played 3 or 4 months those next expansions.
Including Shadowlands.

I believe I can speak with relative reaoning.

I'm sorry. But when they start giving me world quests to catch yellow rabbits in the land of the dead. I know its time to wait for next expansion.

[potis]

Well.

I play this game since launch day in europe.
In wotlk I had 360 days played.

And 70% of that was probably standing in Dalaran trying to get something going or farming pointless reputation to unlock a quest or doing something extra slowly, it doesnt reflect reality, it reflects your experience, but its not the reality of the game.

It weirds me out how people prefer those systems over the newer systems that were changed because people of your type demanded it, and how you guys dont see it and people that do play the game also got so much more free time.

Someone at some point complained that he didnt want to farm to revered to unlock the questline, he didnt have time to do dailies apart from playing on a Saturday, therefor the time gating system moved on from:

"Do dailies for 50 days to reach exalted" to "The questline will release a chapter every week for 5-8 weeks".

Or, "Queue up in LFR and clear it for 5 weeks in a row to collect 80/80 for this OBVIOUSLY TIMEGATING QUESTLINE".

And somehow you guys find this as a bad thing cause nostalgia is hitting you.

[Deadite]

Solo players don't deserve gear.

You sound like a nice fella. Imagine how less toxic this game would be if people only worried about their own gear instead of what gear other people have. I guess you wanting to stop people getting any gear is a new low even for this forum. Grats for that is guess.

This game has always been raid or die. You raid and get good gear or you get scraps. I guess the high point in this expansion is that you can actually get normal level raid gear. I mean they have shitty stats but the 252 ilvl is prolly enough to get the raiders tears flowing. If you grind for weeks you can even get enough doodads to get 246 gear and make tier. Chuck in your 291 legos and 259? stuff from the WB and a crafted item you can get the best non raid gear you have ever been able to. You never even have to try and join people who hate you and try to raid. It is pretty sweet!

[Hauzhi]

And 70% of that was probably standing in Dalaran trying to get something going or farming pointless reputation to unlock a quest or doing something extra slowly, it doesnt reflect reality, it reflects your experience, but its not the reality of the game.

It weirds me out how people prefer those systems over the newer systems that were changed because people of your type demanded it, and how you guys dont see it and people that do play the game also got so much more free time.

Someone at some point complained that he didnt want to farm to revered to unlock the questline, he didnt have time to do dailies apart from playing on a Saturday, therefor the time gating system moved on from:

"Do dailies for 50 days to reach exalted" to "The questline will release a chapter every week for 5-8 weeks".

Or, "Queue up in LFR and clear it for 5 weeks in a row to collect 80/80 for this OBVIOUSLY TIMEGATING QUESTLINE".

And somehow you guys find this as a bad thing cause nostalgia is hitting you.

Dont try to guess what people didnt said.

I have zero nostalgia about the old times. I didnt even installed classic/tbc while having an active sub. Wont try wotlk classic either. Its done.

I clearer vanilla naxx, all in tbc, also wolk untill i quit after naxx and still cleared ulduar hard modes after going super casual, because my guild mates invited me. Got multiple gladiator titles and 2 toons exalted with all BGs.
Cant really say I was afk in Dalaran.

Anyway. I feel rdiculous having to write this every time someone point fingers at me for expressing my opinion on the game, doubting the experience of any player.

Back on the topic... For some reason, blizzard is changing some systems. I dont think world quests content is bad, but they could be good world quests.
Tossing a skull at 2 headed dog or catching yellow rabbits is good content for a casual. Its poor.

Having 1 random reward from a vault every week is not good content. Having loot droping from m+ inferior to the weekly vault is not good content.

Having 3 bilion addons telling me to walk to the right, jump, or run backwards, doing flick flacks is not good content.

This is a RPG game. Or was.

The world is not immersive. Its a random mix of random stuff, done at random days for random rewards.

Legendarys that have nothing of legendary how they are obtained. Epics that are more common than green items.
Everything is false, just for players to think they achieved anything in the game.

I'm sorry but the game is not engaging for a casual. Unless you are addicted to the game/bored of all the other games or you have low standards.
When I say "you" I'm generalizing.

I can only be engaged while progressing a little and there is some story to follow.
So, my casual experience finds this game ridiculous empty of soul.

Unless you raid and are part of a guild and community, the game sucks.

I still like the game, for a couple months.

[RAWRF]

Going into a dragon's lair is boring, you're right, we should stick with 12 boss raids

Damn straight, a little bit of challenge is nice. If you want to be handed loot on a silver platter go Q for LFR like the other baddies.

[Violent]

STOP making the game for the top 0.01% of the players! It’s killing this game

"Nope! We don't care! It's dead/dying already, it's 15+ years old. Move on!" - Blizzard, probably.

[cparle87]

That's stupid. Solo players don't deserve gear. Either do mythic or stop crying.

I've been arguing throughout this thread that solo players have it better than I think they've ever had. They can get full tier, double legos, full normal raid conduits, and a complete set of 246-259 gear. Sadly for some they don't call this a progression curve at all because it's not as long as raiders and key runners.

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To be honest, I think adding zeroes to random dungeon finder wouldn't be that much of a problem and maybe help making m+ dungeons more accessible, when people get keystones they may be more inclined to try it out. m0 isn't that hard after all and it has no timer, I would absolutely rate it around lfr difficulty.

I'm inclined to agree. It would also cut down on the number of people going into keys, any keys, without knowing mechanics. Since the jump from heroic to mythic DOES add a bit of something to the bosses.

[Deadite]

I've been arguing throughout this thread that solo players have it better than I think they've ever had. They can get full tier, double legos, full normal raid conduits, and a complete set of 246-259 gear. Sadly for some they don't call this a progression curve at all because it's not as long as raiders and key runners.

It is the best non raid gear you have been able to get right enough. The thing is that after a few weeks you are done. I think that is the main thing people are complaining about. Now i just quit till the next patch after i have done the reps and what not but for people who still want to play the game? Unless they raid or PvP then they have stagnation. Now i can tell from this forum that raiders don't give a fuck about that and they would shit bricks if there was a way to improve your gear out side of a raid but if Blizzard added something to say add 10 ilvls to an item? Collect 15 doodads over a week doing preferably something fun and new that would keep everyone but raiders happy.

[cparle87]

It is the best non raid gear you have been able to get right enough. The thing is that after a few weeks you are done. I think that is the main thing people are complaining about. Now i just quit till the next patch after i have done the reps and what not but for people who still want to play the game? Unless they raid or PvP then they have stagnation. Now i can tell from this forum that raiders don't give a fuck about that and they would shit bricks if there was a way to improve your gear out side of a raid but if Blizzard added something to say add 10 ilvls to an item? Collect 15 doodads over a week doing preferably something fun and new that would keep everyone but raiders happy.

That's not a bad thing, though. Blizzard has accepted cyclical subs for pretty much the life of the game. It's the players who seem to have a problem with actually being done, oddly in complete opposition to the vocal hated of titanforging which ironically did give the possibility of extended progression.

[Nachtigal]

The only thing killing this game is it’s community. Neither side of the player base will shut up. Blizzard does something one side likes, the other freaks the hell out. It’s just a constant ping pong back and forth. It’s not too different than withered as they fall to madness lacking a source of arcane to feed their addictions. The community is stuck in an endless loop of rage and despair chasing the same satisfaction they once knew.

WoW will never be what it once was, it can never be that again. The sooner people accept that and move on, the quicker they can make the decisions to leave or keep playing. A very large part of what made the game so good back then, was the majority of its players shared the same sense of wonder with the game because it was fresh. The majority of the people you played with weren’t burnt out. People were willing to do more for so much less. You got in to groups and had fun with randoms.

It’s not that the game got bad… it’s that you stopped playing the game the way you used to.

[Echo of Soul]

I've been arguing throughout this thread that solo players have it better than I think they've ever had. They can get full tier, double legos, full normal raid conduits, and a complete set of 246-259 gear. Sadly for some they don't call this a progression curve at all because it's not as long as raiders and key runners.

LOL, normal raid gear is completely worthless and frankly the most that they deserve. If they had been able to get heroic raid gear a lot of mythic raiders would quit on the spot in protest.

[Xeerah]

You sound like a nice fella. Imagine how less toxic this game would be if people only worried about their own gear instead of what gear other people have. I guess you wanting to stop people getting any gear is a new low even for this forum. Grats for that is guess.

This game has always been raid or die. You raid and get good gear or you get scraps. I guess the high point in this expansion is that you can actually get normal level raid gear. I mean they have shitty stats but the 252 ilvl is prolly enough to get the raiders tears flowing. If you grind for weeks you can even get enough doodads to get 246 gear and make tier. Chuck in your 291 legos and 259? stuff from the WB and a crafted item you can get the best non raid gear you have ever been able to. You never even have to try and join people who hate you and try to raid. It is pretty sweet!

Thats just not true tbh.
For example Frostmage trinkets u get your bests in m+
Then u have 2 slots of legendarys which u get from crafting (or if u are fine with the belt from the questline its one u have to craft).
You can forge Tiersets through the creation catalyst either from gear u get in the raid or in m+
U dont have to raid u can run dungeons instead - but if u dont want to do that either then its ur CHOICE that u miss out
But if u want good gear from worldquests i think 259 (or is it 262? i am not sure here) is your limit then because lets be honest a WQ taking 5 minutes should not reward gear equivalent to mythic raid gear

[cparle87]

LOL, normal raid gear is completely worthless and frankly the most that they deserve. If they had been able to get heroic raid gear a lot of mythic raiders would quit on the spot in protest.

Gotta love the dichotomy, the duality here. If it's not the best, it's completely worthless. Nothing in between. No such thing as ok gear, sufficient gear, enough.

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Thats just not true tbh.
For example Frostmage trinkets u get your bests in m+
Then u have 2 slots of legendarys which u get from crafting (or if u are fine with the belt from the questline its one u have to craft).
You can forge Tiersets through the creation catalyst either from gear u get in the raid or in m+
U dont have to raid u can run dungeons instead - but if u dont want to do that either then its ur CHOICE that u miss out
But if u want good gear from worldquests i think 259 (or is it 262? i am not sure here) is your limit then because lets be honest a WQ taking 5 minutes should not reward gear equivalent to mythic raid gear

You don't even need to raid or do keys to get tier. The 246 sandworn relic gear or if you're lucky 259 from Antros are valid targets. Just not the 252 cypher gear for some reason. You can get full tier, full normal conduits, double 291 legos, and a near complete (fully complete in 9.2.5) set of 252 without ever touching a group or talking to someone.

[Deadite]

LOL, normal raid gear is completely worthless and frankly the most that they deserve. If they had been able to get heroic raid gear a lot of mythic raiders would quit on the spot in protest.

*sniff sniff* I smell shite. I find it hard to believe mythic raiders would even give a shit that a bunch of strangers got worse gear than them That they would quit over it sounds kinda bat shit crazy.

Thats just not true tbh.
For example Frostmage trinkets u get your bests in m+
Then u have 2 slots of legendarys which u get from crafting (or if u are fine with the belt from the questline its one u have to craft).
You can forge Tiersets through the creation catalyst either from gear u get in the raid or in m+
U dont have to raid u can run dungeons instead - but if u dont want to do that either then its ur CHOICE that u miss out
But if u want good gear from worldquests i think 259 (or is it 262? i am not sure here) is your limit then because lets be honest a WQ taking 5 minutes should not reward gear equivalent to mythic raid gear

That is kinda what i said after the first line you read. I am fine with missing out on better gear and nor would i expect mythic gear by doing WQ. I get the best non raid gear i can get and am happy enough with it.Then i just piss off to other games till a new patch come around. As cparle87 said apparently Blizzard are fine with that. I do find that an utterly mental way to run a game. I guess the lost revenue is less than the cost to try and make enough content to keep people playing? Feck knows. I am happy enough to be one of the cyclical subs and Blizz seems fine with that as well. Guess it is win/win.

[Dalinos]

Game is fine, bads will be bads.