Page 44 of 88 FirstFirst ...
34
42
43
44
45
46
54
... LastLast
  1. #861
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    "Please stop making content designed for hardcore raiders only, it's driving us players who want other things to do away!"

    "Hahahaha OP is a scrub probably never raided anything other than LFR. Get good scrub, or quit, hahaha!"

    And yall wonder why sub numbers are in the shitter. There are lots of people who want to live and exist and be immersed in the World of Warcraft. But when they have nothing to do but raid or die, they get bored and quit.
    But there is more casual content right now than ever before. The problem is they showered casuals with basically a free 252 ilvl set that makes half of the casual content worthless when it comes to progressing your char.

  2. #862
    No. You will either raid or farm a 0.0001% drop chance 20th reskin of a mount from a "rare" mob with a daily lockout in Korthia or Zereth Mortis.

    Nothing else.

  3. #863
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    Farming shiny Pokemon is not difficult at all. It literally just takes time. Same with repeatedly doing a boss over and over.
    Lich King Heroic is not hard. You can kill him with a single button. It just takes time for the mount to drop.
    It's difficult in the same way that brushing your teeth every day is difficult, you just have to not be a complete fuckup and it's no problem.

  4. #864
    Quote Originally Posted by stansted12 View Post
    I wouldn't mind end game content being hard what I think puts people off is the huge time/social commitment. I'm an adult I couldn't even think about a hardcore raid schedule.
    "Hardcore" raiding doesn't really exist anymore. Back in vanilla/TBC, as a schoolboy, I used to raid 4-5 times a week. Nowadays, as an adult, I raid twice a week, for 3h per session. And you know what? 90% of guilds raid like that too. They might have an optional 3rd raid, but the vast majority of guilds I know of raid twice a week, 6h or 8h total, depending on if their raids are 3h or 4h.

  5. #865
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    Why? It is already literally braindead content. Do you just want to not kill anything and get loot for free?
    If people seriously can't beat those bosses on Normal they don't deserve to play the game tbh. How did they even manage to hit the login button?
    Your seriously overestimate how good the average player is.
    Yes WoW is not hard, I agree. But the people how find normal to be braindead are not the audience for Normal mode raids.
    Remember how terrible the average pug/lfr player is and then remember half of them are worse.

    If you look at the difference between WoD normal and SL normal there is a marked increase in fight complexity and for the 'bad' people who don't find normal braindead easy that is a problem. Why do you care that Normal is to easy? surely your not actually doing them yourself. Let Mythic be for the 'skilled' players, normal for the braindead masses and have Heroic sit in between.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  6. #866
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Rigging your election
    Posts
    35,055
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    But there is more casual content right now than ever before. The problem is they showered casuals with basically a free 252 ilvl set that makes half of the casual content worthless when it comes to progressing your char.
    Sentence 1 basically contradicts sentence 2. "There's lots of content but the vast majority of it is irrelevant." If the content is not fun, engaging, or worthwhile, can we really call it casual content?
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  7. #867
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Sentence 1 basically contradicts sentence 2. "There's lots of content but the vast majority of it is irrelevant." If the content is not fun, engaging, or worthwhile, can we really call it casual content?
    Its the same content thats been there, plus more. Its the reward structure that is off. Thats all I'm trying to point out.

  8. #868
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Sentence 1 basically contradicts sentence 2. "There's lots of content but the vast majority of it is irrelevant." If the content is not fun, engaging, or worthwhile, can we really call it casual content?
    I assume so since dungeons,raids,torghast, and mage tower don't instantly vanish...

    The issue isn't really the content but a intense burning jealousy that other people have higher ilv then them.

    I would argue for this type of player content honestly comes second compared to how they see themselves stacked against their peers.

  9. #869
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    32,113
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    So you are saying farming shiny Pokemon isn't hard either? Or in wow terms, farming rare mounts with a 0,1 drop chance. Well, you are wrong. Because difficulty can be defined differently. I find it harder to kill a boss 200 times over the curse of 200 weeks than it is to clear a mythic raid and be lucky with a 100% endboss drop.
    I did say 'for some.' Operative word is some. I guess you missed that.
    Most people judge because thinking is hard.

  10. #870
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    So you are saying farming shiny Pokemon isn't hard either? Or in wow terms, farming rare mounts with a 0,1 drop chance. Well, you are wrong. Because difficulty can be defined differently. I find it harder to kill a boss 200 times over the curse of 200 weeks than it is to clear a mythic raid and be lucky with a 100% endboss drop.
    This kind of sounds like you are saying luck is a factor in difficulty?
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  11. #871
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    This should be stressed on this website. MMOs existed well before instancing was a thing. WoW was probably the first major MMO to include instancing as a serious feature. The first instance I ever became aware of was the Corellian Corvette instance in SWG.

    Massively is, as you say, relating to the world of the game. It's the fact that hundreds or even thousands of players are interacting in the same game world simultaneously. It has nothing to do with instances, dungeons, raids, etc...
    The second M is multiplayer and for pretty much all of gaming history multiplayer didn't just mean there just happened to be other people around. So while the games used a lot of outdoor content, the intent was to get a group of people together to take down even outdoor content. However the companies then began to realize said content would just end up being a group of people keeping it on lockdown and instanced content was the solution. So sure, if they want to make actually challenging bosses out in the open world that you'd cry that you can't get because the top guild always gets it, I'm pretty sure you'd be much more open to instances. MMOs existed before instances, but you still damn well needed other people together.

  12. #872
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    If the content is not fun, engaging, or worthwhile, can we really call it casual content?
    To be fair, those are all entirely subjective terms. Whats fun, engaging, and worthwhile for me might be absolute trash to you - hell, whats worthwhile for ME can change - i have made it no secret i havnt done mythic raiding for a while, as i just dont find the time investment worthwhile for me personally as my job has become extremely busy. And I have said this for the longest time - THAT is the issue with designing content for "casual" players - not only can casual players not agree on what is suitable - for example some want to be able to farm 1 normal/heroic ilvl piece per week through running heroic dungeons / queued bgs, and others want Mythic or higher (yes, higher) quality loot from WQ, and are only willing to wait a few weeks after release to have the full bis set. But as i said, not only is THAT an issue, they cant even decide if they are causal, or what casual is.

    Mythic raids is 20man raid content, with a weekly lockout, and loot is on the bosses with a drop chance. Its the hardest pve content in the game, and rewards the highest quality pve loot in the game (with a few exceptions each tier).

    Casual content is.....everything, depending on your mindset, but no actually its depending on how much you play, well actually no it depends on how frequently you play, not how much you play, well actually no it depends if you play with planned groups or pugs, but actually it depends on how serious you take the game, but, if you take it serious but only play a few hours a week you are like.....casual but not if those few hours are doing mythic raids because now you are hardcore but not if you dont take it serious but................

    Meaningful, engaging, and worthwhile all fall into the same catagory as "casual"
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  13. #873
    Quote Originally Posted by varren View Post
    Normal mode raiding needs to be made significantly easier to try and steer people into organized content, IMO.
    This. Normal was supposed to be the friends, family, and casuals tier like they said at the end of MoP when they introduced mythic. It's way too high right now. It's heroic with slightly lower numbers and one or two less mechanics. I'm not saying this is a bad thing. One new mechanic or changing how a mechanic works, like turning Skolex's tank swaps into cones so they have to be within 10 yards but not clip each other cones or making Xy'mox's traps unbreakable are fun changes. But normal should be closer to LFR and further from heroic.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  14. #874
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    To be fair, those are all entirely subjective terms. Whats fun, engaging, and worthwhile for me might be absolute trash to you - hell, whats worthwhile for ME can change - i have made it no secret i havnt done mythic raiding for a while, as i just dont find the time investment worthwhile for me personally as my job has become extremely busy. And I have said this for the longest time - THAT is the issue with designing content for "casual" players - not only can casual players not agree on what is suitable - for example some want to be able to farm 1 normal/heroic ilvl piece per week through running heroic dungeons / queued bgs, and others want Mythic or higher (yes, higher) quality loot from WQ, and are only willing to wait a few weeks after release to have the full bis set. But as i said, not only is THAT an issue, they cant even decide if they are causal, or what casual is.

    Mythic raids is 20man raid content, with a weekly lockout, and loot is on the bosses with a drop chance. Its the hardest pve content in the game, and rewards the highest quality pve loot in the game (with a few exceptions each tier).

    Casual content is.....everything, depending on your mindset, but no actually its depending on how much you play, well actually no it depends on how frequently you play, not how much you play, well actually no it depends if you play with planned groups or pugs, but actually it depends on how serious you take the game, but, if you take it serious but only play a few hours a week you are like.....casual but not if those few hours are doing mythic raids because now you are hardcore but not if you dont take it serious but................

    Meaningful, engaging, and worthwhile all fall into the same catagory as "casual"
    I don't agree. We know well, who casuals and hardcores are. Hardcore game is more like job or sport, where it doesn't matter, if you want play or not - you have to. Hardcore game requires some sort of discipline, if you want to achieve some goals. Hardcore game requires minimum time investment per day - one hour for example. Hardcore game requires minimum playing session duration quantum. If you don't have at least 30 minutes of free game time, then it's pointless for you to log in, as overhead costs are too high. For example flying from Covenant Sanctum to other location can take up to 10 minutes. Casual game is opposite. Casual game is designed according to "If you don't want to play this game now - you can do it". Casual game - is game, that doesn't require you to play every day. You want to play other game today? Ok, your choice. Casual game - is game, that supports any play session duration. Even 1 minute. So, casual game is incompatible with such things, as FOMO mechanics. Because FOMO mechanics force you to play every day.

    Just imagine two extremes. Ultra-hardcore game, you need to play 24/7 and ultra-casual one, like Tetris or something like that. And then interpolate between this two and imagine, where Wow needs to be placed.

  15. #875
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Just imagine two extremes. Ultra-hardcore game, you need to play 24/7 and ultra-casual one, like Tetris or something like that. And then interpolate between this two and imagine, where Wow needs to be placed.
    So the world record holder for tetris is.........casual?

    edit: sorry, ULTRA casual?
    Last edited by arkanon; 2022-05-18 at 06:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  16. #876
    Edit: Nevermind. Don't know why i engange with this again. Delted everything.
    Last edited by VinceVega; 2022-05-18 at 07:02 AM.

  17. #877
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    But there is more casual content right now than ever before. The problem is they showered casuals with basically a free 252 ilvl set that makes half of the casual content worthless when it comes to progressing your char.
    That doesnt even make sense. Your character in wow never reaches a stage where its "finished", fully geared & progressed. With LFR, normal, HC & Mythic quality gear its just not going to happen for most players. The only ppl that feels "done" progressing a character are probably mythic raiders & high m+ key players.

    For everyone else, the players never finish progressing. Its always progression, it never halts between patches. Its a neverending catchup that players never reach.

    I think this feeling of never being "done" with a character makes people sick and tierd over time. Theres never a reason to get excited for LFR/normal gear and to some extent HC gear, cause its going to be replaced very soon and your character wont be BiS anyway.

    Players gets showered in gear, but 95% of it is useless shite most of the time and in fact; you dont even need most of it if you are only playing outside of raiding/m+/arena.

    Having a sense of progression were theres a somewhat reachable goal between big patches & xpacs is important. As it is now, nothing really changes between seasons. For alot of players. Thats a problem.

  18. #878
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I assume so since dungeons,raids,torghast, and mage tower don't instantly vanish...

    The issue isn't really the content but a intense burning jealousy that other people have higher ilv then them.

    I would argue for this type of player content honestly comes second compared to how they see themselves stacked against their peers.
    Not really. If anything, getting mythic ilvl is pretty easy via m+ and now we have all sorts of ways to bypass raiding. To me it seems people actually want to keep others away from loot because they don't do the same things in game.

    I mean, i fully agree that reaching high skill levels and beating the hardest challenges needs to be rewarding, but ilvl is something that's completely broken and irrelevant right now as an indicator of the objectives someone has reached. Just check PvP gear for DF - when you buy it it's automatically max ilvl because it simply doesn't make sense to be otherwise.

    To me this kind of players are the first very willingly to ditch any kind of group activity if max ilvl gear was rewarded from WQs for example. And if gear power is actually taken out of the equation, suddendly your ability to beat content is completely dependant on personal skills. Which will make a lot of people unable to beat ceratin encounters.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  19. #879
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Edit: Nevermind. Don't know why i engange with this again. Delted everything.
    You are seriously of the belief that Blizzard spends little dev time on creating & tuning mythic raiding? We can literally see what mythic raiding has done to the whole raiding scene(LFR, normal, HC & Mythic). Every difficulty is now harder because Blizzard creates fights for mythic that in turn gets lower numbers & less mechanics. But still, the fights keeps getting harder in each mode.

    Thats because they gotta create insane hard & complex fights for mythic raiders and they cant just remove all of it in the other difficulties.

    WotLK had lots of things to do and it will have this time around too. The big difference is that you can choose what to do. If you want to park your main for the week and gear up your alt, great! If you want to farm rep, dungeons or do pug raids on your main, cool!

    Since Legion players have had things to do because they had to, not because they wanted too. Thats a big difference and its not really a healthy approach if you want to keep players playing over time.

    And its true, Blizzard do spend alot of time creating difficult content that most people dont really give a shit about. They never have, never will. If they did, we would always see high numbers in mythic raiding. But we dont. We never do and never will. So at the very least it begs the question - why even bother when most players wont do it?

  20. #880
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    You are seriously of the belief that Blizzard spends little dev time on creating & tuning mythic raiding? We can literally see what mythic raiding has done to the whole raiding scene(LFR, normal, HC & Mythic). Every difficulty is now harder because Blizzard creates fights for mythic that in turn gets lower numbers & less mechanics. But still, the fights keeps getting harder in each mode.

    Thats because they gotta create insane hard & complex fights for mythic raiders and they cant just remove all of it in the other difficulties.

    WotLK had lots of things to do and it will have this time around too. The big difference is that you can choose what to do. If you want to park your main for the week and gear up your alt, great! If you want to farm rep, dungeons or do pug raids on your main, cool!

    Since Legion players have had things to do because they had to, not because they wanted too. Thats a big difference and its not really a healthy approach if you want to keep players playing over time.

    And its true, Blizzard do spend alot of time creating difficult content that most people dont really give a shit about. They never have, never will. If they did, we would always see high numbers in mythic raiding. But we dont. We never do and never will. So at the very least it begs the question - why even bother when most players wont do it?
    No. It didn't LFR just caused people to not have to engange in even the simplest tactics or care about anything. Because they can get by without caring. No dmg? Someone else will do it. No healing. SOmeonelse will do it.
    Is it more difficult than TBC or classic? Sure. But honestly TBC bossfights... you cannot put something like that out anymore. Barebones. No mechanics. Except the endboss everything is faceroll and boring as fuck.
    Wotlk got better in that regard and the start of actually hard stuff.

    I agree with the "have to"-stuff. But that has absolutly NOTHING to do with mythic raiding. They actually have been quite against this becuase they had to do enough allready an now are forced to do even more. (please nonone go again into the "you are not forced" discussion, you know what i mean)

    And no i don't think mythic raiding has much dev time behinde it. The raids are allready there. There are no secret phases anymore. You get maybe one ability more and people act as if 50% of the dev time go into one fucking ability.
    And they develop it becuase people like it. Follow it. And it is not much effort to iterate on an allready existing system. If you would remove raiding completly. Then yes. Then they would safe on dev time. But if someone actually advocates for that. Just leave.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •