Page 45 of 88 FirstFirst ...
35
43
44
45
46
47
55
... LastLast
  1. #881
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    So the world record holder for tetris is.........casual?

    edit: sorry, ULTRA casual?
    That's why being hardcore or casual isn't about difficulty or game time - it's about some combined thing called effort. Hardcore way of playing can be found for any game. But is it [b]REQUIRED[b]? Playing session duration quantum is about "If I play for <X minutes today, then I just waste my time". You can play Tetris for just 1 minute and be satisfied. In Wow 1 minute isn't enough to even get to nearest flight path.

  2. #882
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    That's why being hardcore or casual isn't about difficulty or game time - it's about some combined thing called effort. Hardcore way of playing can be found for any game. But is it [b]REQUIRED[b]? Playing session duration quantum is about "If I play for <X minutes today, then I just waste my time". You can play Tetris for just 1 minute and be satisfied. In Wow 1 minute isn't enough to even get to nearest flight path.
    This all 100% perfectly supports my claim that you cannot make content for casuals, because noone can agree on what casual even is. There are people in this thread who completely disagree with you, and you even contradict yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  3. #883
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    LFR is useless. I agree with the story mode. People don't learn anything from it and just think raiding is this horrible mess of people doing bullshit and probably don't engange with it because of that anymore.

    And i still think people underestimate how many people engange in one way or another with mythic raiding. There are over 14000 differnet guilds who have at least one boss killed in Mythic Castle.
    Lets say everyone has exactly 20 players (most guilds have more) That are 280.000 players who have done SOMETHING in mythic raiding. Doesn't matter when how or why. They did. This obviously dropped of over the later raids because... well... shadowlands happend^^

    But that is NOT an amount of players you can just push to the side as irrelevant. Completly ignoring that raiders are one of the most consistently subbed people in wow.

    Arena for example has about 140.000 ranked characters in EU and US. But that doesn't mean players. We don't know that sadly as we have no way of knwoing that i think. But if you are looking for a not much used feature. Look at PvP.
    Wow PvP was always... underplayed.
    Yeah, LFR is most likely a horrible first experience for newer players that want to raid. I've played this game since launch way back when so I know the drill with all of this. But imagine being a new player and join in on a LFR run.. oouuuf. No big motivation to progress into normal & HC.

    It should just be a story mode that is eeasy to clear, especially since its so tied to the main story.


    I think theres many things with raiding that together has made it what it are now. We cant really point fingers at one thing and proclaim "this is the issue". Its rather complex and there aint really a easy solution.

    Well, fixing LFR into a easy story mode feature could be one. Just to see the effects of it.

  4. #884
    I think LFR was made because they kept making raiding harder and more exlusive at the highest difficulty level.

    Get rid of LFR, but get rid of Mythic as well.

    I don't even like 2 difficulty levels, but it's better than 4.

  5. #885
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    That doesnt even make sense. Your character in wow never reaches a stage where its "finished", fully geared & progressed. With LFR, normal, HC & Mythic quality gear its just not going to happen for most players. The only ppl that feels "done" progressing a character are probably mythic raiders & high m+ key players.

    For everyone else, the players never finish progressing. Its always progression, it never halts between patches. Its a neverending catchup that players never reach.

    I think this feeling of never being "done" with a character makes people sick and tierd over time. Theres never a reason to get excited for LFR/normal gear and to some extent HC gear, cause its going to be replaced very soon and your character wont be BiS anyway.

    Players gets showered in gear, but 95% of it is useless shite most of the time and in fact; you dont even need most of it if you are only playing outside of raiding/m+/arena.

    Having a sense of progression were theres a somewhat reachable goal between big patches & xpacs is important. As it is now, nothing really changes between seasons. For alot of players. Thats a problem.
    I'm not exactly sure what that has to do what I said.

    No one, not even mythic raiders and high m+ players are ever full bis. Theres always some drop that eludes them. Or if you go on the resto druid discord, they literally want every piece to have leech on it. Having at least 1 item that players haven't gotten yet keeps them logging back in to try.

    Even if you hit your full BiS, patches last 6 months so in a a month or 2 you have to restart anyway. Thats the nature of the game.

    The point i was making is that the heroic dungeons, random battlegrounds, lfr and all the other casual content that ppl used to enjoy is still there. The reason ppl say it's worthless now is because of the reward structure. Heroic dungeons give 223 ilvl. Lfr is 239. Honor gear can be upgraded to 242. If you really really enjoyed the content it would be fine, but most ppl like progressing. But when you can do some daily and kill some rares for a few weeks in ZM, and get a full set of 252 cypher gear, it invalidates the previously mentioned content in terms of gearing.

    I'm not opposed to "casuals" having decent gear or progression, but the reward structure is off. Getting normal raid ilvl gear from non difficult solo activities, has thrown off the balance of gearing from the previous methods of casual gearing.

    Some casuals don't want to hear it, but the cypher 252 gear should either be time gated more heavily or have its ilvl reduced. That way you can do the random bgs, heroic dungeons, and lfr side by side with that content so you'll have longer progression.
    Last edited by ellieg; 2022-05-18 at 10:16 AM.

  6. #886
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnjohn View Post
    I think LFR was made because they kept making raiding harder and more exlusive at the highest difficulty level.

    Get rid of LFR, but get rid of Mythic as well.

    I don't even like 2 difficulty levels, but it's better than 4.
    So bump heroic to mythic difficulty, and drop normal to lfr? or just........fuck lfr players (the majority of raiders) and fuck mythic raiders?
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  7. #887
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Some casuals don't want to hear it, but the cypher 252 gear should either be time gated more heavily or have its ilvl reduced. That way you can do the random bgs, heroic dungeons, and lfr side by side with that content so you'll have longer progression.
    But it's already like this. It's literally been like this from Legion (or even before, though before Legion there was nothing besides raiding that could give you personal progression).

    And guess what? Game is in shambles. Blizzard is doing exactly the opposite aswell. So that's what you get for trying to make a system artifically elongated and less relevant for the bulk of the players.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  8. #888
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    So bump heroic to mythic difficulty, and drop normal to lfr? or just........fuck lfr players (the majority of raiders) and fuck mythic raiders?
    Tune heroic to where mythic is after the gazillion nerfs which is pretty much early heroic

  9. #889
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    But it's already like this. It's literally been like this from Legion (or even before, though before Legion there was nothing besides raiding that could give you personal progression).

    And guess what? Game is in shambles. Blizzard is doing exactly the opposite aswell. So that's what you get for trying to make a system artifically elongated and less relevant for the bulk of the players.
    I'm not sure i understand what you're saying.

    3 main end game pillars are rated pvp, m+, and raids. Conquest has a weekly cap and pvpers get 1 piece from vault. M+ gets 1 278 a week from the vault, 1 272 piece every other week from valor in first half of season. Raids get ~1 piece a week when progressing plus 1 from vault. All of these weekly caps make it so it'll take 3-4 months to get close to fully max geared.

    For ppl that don't do these 3 end game activities, casuals as some might define them, they traditionally did the queued version of these. Heroic dungeons, random bgs, lfr. These 3 things are instantly rendered not worthwhile in terms of casual gearing due to the cypher research. Less effort for the casual to grind out cyphers and get a full 252 set. The problem is this gets completed in 2-3 weeks of playing an hour a day. Talking ~20 hours worth of content.

    So for casuals that care about ilvl bit don't do "hard content", cypher system has replaced their usual endgame. The system needs to somehow be extended time wise.

  10. #890
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnjohn View Post
    I think LFR was made because they kept making raiding harder and more exlusive at the highest difficulty level.

    Get rid of LFR, but get rid of Mythic as well.

    I don't even like 2 difficulty levels, but it's better than 4.

    They told us why we got LFR. They were sick of making raids that only a few % of the player base ever saw.

  11. #891
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    So for casuals that care about ilvl bit don't do "hard content", cypher system has replaced their usual endgame. The system needs to somehow be extended time wise.
    You're literally saying "let's make what we have take arbitrary more time to reach the same point". It really paid off with AP, Covenants, and all the timegated stuff they added from Legion onwards, as we now have lots and lots more players than before and most people is telling Blizzard how they loved these systems.

    Also. Before Legion M+ didn't exist. People who didn't like to raid and wanted some sort of parallel progression got their one. I don't see any problem with giving the same to people who don't do dungeons because as a raider i now have an addition system i need to partake with since gear progression in M+ is just flat out better than in raids.

    With your take, 15s shouldn't reward mythic ilvl gear, because it's flat out easier than Mythic raids for a multitude of reasons - both fight complexity and logistics behind the raid.

    Your 3-4 months to get near max gear apparently suck for the majority of players. You can like it or not and it's totally fine, but Blizzard is always going to make changes that will net them the most rewards. Legion and all the borrowing powers crap happened because most people was just oblivious about other games and literally wanted more reasons to stay online in WoW for more.

    Blizzard just gave them what they asked for. Only to realize it was boring as fuck, and suddendly other alternatives started appearing. It's not like "X game is better than WoW" because it simply doesn't apply. It's literally just "oh, i got bored of WoW and now i have a multitude of games to try that appeal me" whch weren't present years ago. FF14 took years to get to a level where people from WoW could even consider it as an option.

    The situation we're in is basically Blizzard's fault for not acting soon enough about things players kept telling them for years. Much like faction imbalance for example.

    We'll see how things change in DF - SL is already ended for me at this point and i don't expect much other than the experiments of 9.2.5.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  12. #892
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    You're literally saying "let's make what we have take arbitrary more time to reach the same point". It really paid off with AP, Covenants, and all the timegated stuff they added from Legion onwards, as we now have lots and lots more players than before and most people is telling Blizzard how they loved these systems.

    Also. Before Legion M+ didn't exist. People who didn't like to raid and wanted some sort of parallel progression got their one. I don't see any problem with giving the same to people who don't do dungeons because as a raider i now have an addition system i need to partake with since gear progression in M+ is just flat out better than in raids.

    With your take, 15s shouldn't reward mythic ilvl gear, because it's flat out easier than Mythic raids for a multitude of reasons - both fight complexity and logistics behind the raid.

    Your 3-4 months to get near max gear apparently suck for the majority of players. You can like it or not and it's totally fine, but Blizzard is always going to make changes that will net them the most rewards. Legion and all the borrowing powers crap happened because most people was just oblivious about other games and literally wanted more reasons to stay online in WoW for more.

    Blizzard just gave them what they asked for. Only to realize it was boring as fuck, and suddendly other alternatives started appearing. It's not like "X game is better than WoW" because it simply doesn't apply. It's literally just "oh, i got bored of WoW and now i have a multitude of games to try that appeal me" whch weren't present years ago. FF14 took years to get to a level where people from WoW could even consider it as an option.

    The situation we're in is basically Blizzard's fault for not acting soon enough about things players kept telling them for years. Much like faction imbalance for example.

    We'll see how things change in DF - SL is already ended for me at this point and i don't expect much other than the experiments of 9.2.5.
    Thats my point. Blizzard rendered useless 90% of the content casuals used to do by adding cypher system with higher ilvl. The entire system is grinded out in 1 month of sub. Now for 5 out of 6 months of a patch, casuals will and do quit cause nothing else offers them rewards. They can either extend how long the 252 set takes to get, or nerf the ilvl so its worthwhile to casually do bgs, lfr, or heroics.

  13. #893
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    No, you are wrong. Because, again, FOR ME, killing mythic raid bosses IS EASIER than having to farm a boss 300 times with the chance to never see the mount. Hence I raid mythic. Because it's easier to get the mounts this way. Both things are difficult in their own way though.
    The problem is that you think this is something you can have an opinion on. It's not.
    What you described is, objectively, not "difficulty". It's literally just time.

    I don't care how you experience it. Your experience is wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Your seriously overestimate how good the average player is.
    Yes WoW is not hard, I agree. But the people how find normal to be braindead are not the audience for Normal mode raids.
    Remember how terrible the average pug/lfr player is and then remember half of them are worse.

    If you look at the difference between WoD normal and SL normal there is a marked increase in fight complexity and for the 'bad' people who don't find normal braindead easy that is a problem. Why do you care that Normal is to easy? surely your not actually doing them yourself. Let Mythic be for the 'skilled' players, normal for the braindead masses and have Heroic sit in between.
    That's not the problem. I'm not asking people to make Normal/Heroic harder. I'm asking casuals to stop crying about having no options when 99% of the content is casual friendly.

  14. #894
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    The problem is that you think this is something you can have an opinion on. It's not. I don't care how you experience it. Your experience is wrong.
    Now this is a quote lol.

  15. #895
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Now this is a quote lol.
    I like how you edited out the context to suit your needs.

    It's still true though. The guy is trying to define what "difficulty" is and is using a definition that doesn't match any form of reality. Spending time on something easy is not "difficult". I don't say "showering every morning is the Dark Souls of self-care".

  16. #896
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    I like how you edited out the context to suit your needs.

    It's still true though. The guy is trying to define what "difficulty" is and is using a definition that doesn't match any form of reality. Spending time on something easy is not "difficult". I don't say "showering every morning is the Dark Souls of self-care".
    There are different kinds of difficulty, along with varying levels of it tho. Consistency can be considered a form of difficulty.

  17. #897
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    There are different kinds of difficulty, along with varying levels of it tho. Consistency can be considered a form of difficulty.
    It really can't. It can be tiring to do a task repeatedly, but that is tiring because the task itself is slightly taxing and it builds up over time. Solo'ing ICC once a week isn't taxing.

    Maybe he's getting emotionally taxed due to not getting the mount, but even then that's not "difficulty". The task itself is not difficult. The optional task he set for himself is emotionally draining over a large period of time. If he considers this a difficult thing then the good news is that that's entirely his own fault and he can fix it by stopping.

    But I'm not going to keep arguing linguistics with someone who signatures other peoples edited comments for clout. I already don't think very highly of you and I think more highly of my time.
    Last edited by Aydinx2; 2022-05-18 at 11:44 AM.

  18. #898
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    It really can't. It can be tiring to do a task repeatedly, but that is tiring because the task itself is slightly taxing and it builds up over time. Solo'ing ICC once a week isn't taxing.

    Maybe he's getting emotionally taxed due to not getting the mount, but even then that's not "difficulty". The task itself is not difficult. The optional task he set for himself is emotionally draining over a large period of time. If he considers this a difficult thing then the good news is that that's entirely his own fault and he can fix it by stopping.
    Part of the definition of difficult is effort. Consistently doing something every week is effort.

    Or are you implying things aren't difficult if they're optional and you can simply not do them?

    How about an alcoholic not drinking for 1 full year? Its not difficult cause the task is literally just not drinking. The optional task he set for himself is emotionally draining over a large period of time. If he considers this a difficult thing then the good news is that that's entirely his own fault and he can fix it by stopping

  19. #899
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Part of the definition of difficult is effort. Consistently doing something every week is effort.

    Or are you implying things aren't difficult if they're optional and you can simply not do them?
    I'm saying that he himself made it difficult for himself by doing it. But if you remember the original context of that discussion, that doesn't mean it is actually hard content for casuals to do. There is a reason "effort" and "difficult" are two different words. It can take effort to repeatedly do a task that isn't difficult because it is mentally draining to do it for so long. The same way it can be difficult to do something only once.

    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    How about an alcoholic not drinking for 1 full year? Its not difficult cause the task is literally just not drinking. The optional task he set for himself is emotionally draining over a large period of time. If he considers this a difficult thing then the good news is that that's entirely his own fault and he can fix it by stopping
    I know you think this was a clever example, but as someone who knows alcoholics this is a terrible thing to say. It's not "optional" when your social life and health are literally suffering. It's difficult because a single mistake can get your life ruined or even get you killed.

    Between this disgusting comment and the disrespectful edited signature I'm convinced you're just a bad person. I'm gonna stop replying to you now.

    Edit: Actually, let me give you a taste of your own medicine.
    Last edited by Aydinx2; 2022-05-18 at 11:55 AM.

  20. #900
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    I'm saying that he himself made it difficult for himself by doing it. But if you remember the original context of that discussion, that doesn't mean it is actually hard content for casuals to do. There is a reason "effort" and "difficult" are two different words. It can take effort to repeatedly do a task that isn't difficult because it is mentally draining to do it for so long. The same way it can be difficult to do something only once.



    I know you think this was a clever example, but as someone who knows alcoholics this is a terrible thing to say. It's not "optional" when your social life and health are literally suffering. It's difficult because a single mistake can get your life ruined or even get you killed.

    Between this disgusting comment and the disrespectful edited signature I'm convinced you're just a bad person. I'm gonna stop replying to you now.

    Edit: Actually, let me give you a taste of your own medicine.
    Im glad my personal experience with alcoholics has helped get my point thru to you. Consistency is a form of difficulty, and so is something that is emotionally draining.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •