STOP making the game for the top 0.01% of the players! It’s killing this game

[Coldkil]

Ya I think ppl quitting after 1 month anyway is a dif convo. I was just talking about the balance of activities. I know the 3-4 months gearing cycle works for me personally as an m+ player and was curious why it's not a similar cycle for casuals too

Yes and no. For sure people leaving is due to multiple factors. But one of them is the fact that in the last expansion the whole focus of the game was to keep people online via mandatory chores, that weren't fun but you had to do to stay on par.

It's fun that a 3/4 months cycle is fine for you - m+ is the least timegated content wow has, you can literally spam them as much as you like and pugging is very easy (in terms of accessibility, not success). I would be fine with a 3/4 months cycle of atvthe emd of it given enough commitement fron players you could get to ilvl cap whatver content you did, even world quests.

And yes. Content is really umbalanced in terms of rewards. World content is unrewarding, casual content is neglected, m+ give much better rewards for easier content compared to raids (both quality and quantity). Reason why i'm in favour of a ilvl cap at 15s/hc woth world content catching up to that later during the tier (maybe when the .5 hits).

That would make also obsolete stupid catchup systems that need to be implemented evey patch because people have no way to get there without them.

My wet dream would be to have mythic raids work like the mage tower. Always scale you down, and it's always a challenge. If people can't farm them the expansion after, is not a problem - make those reward count.

[Relapses]

Pretty sure ppl would not have bought as many boosts if they had to do it illegally. It was very tempting for example to go buy a hc Sylvanas boost on TN EU for 50k gold (yes, that cheap) instead of bothering with progress with your guild. When you have everything right in front of you and there are NO downsides, not even potential ones, no risks, why not do it. Buying illegally would be a risk and at least some would be deterred.
And tbh when blizz introduced that they also started designing limited time rewards for raids that you wouldn't be able to farm later even with 1% drop chance. So you feel tempted to do it just for that. Started with Garrosh heirlooms (that was the big boom) and continued with mounts for end hc raid. After Garrosh, ppl were selling boosts for everything, remember how ppl were buying boosts for just doing a CM even untimed for that one piece of loot in wod?

Again, this whole argument hinges on this presumption that boosts are only ever paid for by people who buy tokens (or previously bought Chinese gold). It completely bypasses the very real fact that new gold is generated all the time and there are various ways for players to generate their own wealth. I won't deny it happens but I'm disinclined to believe the commonly presented argument that the token alone is what has caused boosting in this game to become as prevalent as it is.

[Gorsameth]

Again, this whole argument hinges on this presumption that boosts are only ever paid for by people who buy tokens (or previously bought Chinese gold). It completely bypasses the very real fact that new gold is generated all the time and there are various ways for players to generate their own wealth. I won't deny it happens but I'm disinclined to believe the commonly presented argument that the token alone is what has caused boosting in this game to become as prevalent as it is.

I highly doubt that the people that boost who earn their own gold is enough to sustain the boosting 'industry'.
I've played with to many people who had trouble paying for even just their repair bills for me to believe that.

Those who are 'wealthy' in WoW are a tiny tiny minority.

[Deadite]

Again, this whole argument hinges on this presumption that boosts are only ever paid for by people who buy tokens (or previously bought Chinese gold).

That part there is why i think your reasoning is suspect. Your average Joe player would never be stupid enough to risk their account by buying from some dodgey gold seller site imho. They can buy all the gold they want from Blizzard in total saftey and legally. No risk with a click of a button.

[arkanon]

That part there is why i think your reasoning is suspect. Your average Joe player would never be stupid enough to risk their account by buying from some dodgey gold seller site imho. They can buy all the gold they want from Blizzard in total saftey and legally. No risk with a click of a button.

From other players, not blizzard.

[Relapses]

Those who are 'wealthy' in WoW are a tiny tiny minority.

And those who consistently buy boosts are a tiny minority, too. People just see a bunch of advertising for it and assume that "everybody" must be doing it.

[Echo of Soul]

From other players, not blizzard.

No Blizzard buy gold off players and then sell it to other players for more than they bought it for.

It's like buying milk from the store. If the store didn't buy the milk from the farmer you would have a real hard time buying that milk.

I'm the end it doesn't matter. You can buy gold directly from the Blizzard store for real money and then buy boosts which makes WoW one of the most P2W games on the market.

[Kyriani]

The only time I buy a boost is when there's a mount I want from one of Blizzard's stupid FOMO BS drops from a final raid boss that gets removed when the next expansion launches. Because of the limited time nature of such mounts, if I like the look of it, and I can't get it with my guild (it's not always possible for me to tag along in a raid when there's real raiders who wanna raid), then I'll pony up some gold to get a quick kill for it.

I have about 16 lvl 60's at the moment and make roughly 600,000 gold a month doing nothing but mission table gold missions, the weekly anima reservoir quest, and callings on my main at the very least. Occasionally I do callings on alts if it's quick and convenient to do so and I pick up the odd paragon chest as reps tick over. I spend about 150-200k a month on game time depending on token prices, though I try to buy several tokens when the price is low. I have never spent real money to buy a token to sell for gold. It has simply never been necessary.

Any gold I spend in game is almost always for transmog. I don't piss it away on high ilvl boe raid drops that become irrelevant with the next patch/xpac (unless it has an appearance I really like >_>). At the end of the day, I have a lot more gold coming in than I have going out, so I tend to accumulate gold that I sit on until such time as there's something I need/want to spend it on, which tends to be rare.

[Relapses]

No Blizzard buy gold off players and then sell it to other players for more than they bought it for.

It's like buying milk from the store. If the store didn't buy the milk from the farmer you would have a real hard time buying that milk.

I'm the end it doesn't matter. You can buy gold directly from the Blizzard store for real money and then buy boosts which makes WoW one of the most P2W games on the market.

Psst... the gold the token provides you comes from players. Blizzard doesn't generate any gold through the transaction. Other people are essentially paying Blizzard a $5 premium on their sub for the service of getting it paid for via in-game currency.

[Echo of Soul]

Psst... the gold the token provides you comes from players. Blizzard doesn't generate any gold through the transaction. Other people are essentially paying Blizzard a $5 premium on their sub for the service of getting it paid for via in-game currency.

You can buy gold with real money directly from the store, end of story. Where it comes from, how it's made, completely irrelevant.

[VMSmith]

You can buy gold with real money directly from the store, end of story. Where it comes from, how it's made, completely irrelevant.

One way to look at it is that people pay gold to Blizzard for something of monetary value, and Blizzard has paid people that gold for their actual money. The token is just the vehicle that Blizzard uses to facilitate both transactions and muddy the waters. Basically Blizzard is selling Player A's gold to Player B for money and giving Player A a 75% cut of that sale.

And that's even ignoring the fact that Blizzard creates the gold in the first place and controls it's influx into the game.

[Biomega]

You can buy gold with real money directly from the store, end of story. Where it comes from, how it's made, completely irrelevant.

That's not how it works, though. You don't buy gold from the store. Very explicitly not. You buy a TOKEN from the store, which you can sell to other players for THEIR gold.

Tokens don't generate gold. They don't create an influx of gold into the economy. They only shift wealth that already exists.

All the gold in existence is generated from in-game activities.

[Echo of Soul]

That's not how it works, though. You don't buy gold from the store. Very explicitly not. You buy a TOKEN from the store, which you can sell to other players for THEIR gold.

Tokens don't generate gold. They don't create an influx of gold into the economy. They only shift wealth that already exists.

All the gold in existence is generated from in-game activities.

IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

If the gold is generated, made from alchemy or stolen from Jeff Kaplans grandmother it does not matter. You pay real money to Blizzard, you end up with gold in game, that's all that matters.

[jeezusisacasual]

Some of the issue is how much harder raids have become for a larger portion of the players. When raids started focusing more on pass / fail mechanics on the individual people got frustrated and quit and in some cases mid pull. The game is to hard from heroic onward along with larger time commitments being required also with the research required from not only the fights themselves but also a gear and logistical standpoint which adds to much complexity. Perhaps expansions should reset the level of difficulty ( i am not talking about Molten core here either ) but to a comparable level with gradual increases like 2-3% harder etc.

Also the fact that raiding is a mess in general and does not scale well either. This is another reason why the entire bring the player and not the class was a better period in wow since it allowed you more freedom to complete an encounter again this is not stated for every single encounter but there are a few that makes it a night and day difference. When i started being happy i cleared a raid not because of some personal achievement but a feeling of thank fuck i dont have to do that again then it was time to realize that it just was not worth it at all.

When comparing Mythic plus to Raiding is so different, you gear slower in mythic plus which is fine since i can do it whenever and at my own pace with a very healthy pug scene ( i pugged KSM as a Brewmaster this season ) with gaining some points even in a failed key plus you will get your item from the vault and its a no brainer. If things like the Creation Catalyst continue to be apart of the game and hell even if it isnt there will be no real reason to raid unless its your thing which is about time honestly. The other aspect is that i refuse to deal with the mindset that raiding has created since Warlords, that sorta attitude and unwillingness to teach and help people grow as a team and now its expected for them to already be a master of all things whatever their class is which honestly is absurd.

[Biomega]

IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

If the gold is generated, made from alchemy or stolen from Jeff Kaplans grandmother it does not matter. You pay real money to Blizzard, you end up with gold in game, that's all that matters.

It may or may not matter depending on what argument you make. But "you buy gold directly from the store" is still factually incorrect. And it's not unimportant that buying tokens does NOT generate new gold, because that matters a whole lot for inflation and economic stability.

[Echo of Soul]

It may or may not matter depending on what argument you make. But "you buy gold directly from the store" is still factually incorrect. And it's not unimportant that buying tokens does NOT generate new gold, because that matters a whole lot for inflation and economic stability.

I was talking about P2W. Whatever other discussion people have about the token and gold is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I assume so since dungeons,raids,torghast, and mage tower don't instantly vanish...

The issue isn't really the content but a intense burning jealousy that other people have higher ilv then them.

I would argue for this type of player content honestly comes second compared to how they see themselves stacked against their peers.

I find it hilarious that "casual players want more casual content that isn't pushing them into raids, dungeons, or PvP, fun engaging repeatable content that creates a sense of community" is met with "LOL THEY JEALOUS B/C THEY HAVE LOW ILVL" It's pretty much EXACTLY what I have come to expect from the WoW community.

[ellieg]

I find it hilarious that "casual players want more casual content that isn't pushing them into raids, dungeons, or PvP, fun engaging repeatable content that creates a sense of community" is met with "LOL THEY JEALOUS B/C THEY HAVE LOW ILVL" It's pretty much EXACTLY what I have come to expect from the WoW community.

Its because there's some casuals who talk about how much casual content there used to be. But when you look at all the casual content in the past, its all still there, plus more of it. When you point this out, its usually met with "but its not rewarding enough, the gear it gives is worthless". Which leads ppl to believe its gear they want, and not content.

[Raelbo]

I highly doubt that the people that boost who earn their own gold is enough to sustain the boosting 'industry'.
I've played with to many people who had trouble paying for even just their repair bills for me to believe that.

Those who are 'wealthy' in WoW are a tiny tiny minority.

The grounds upon which you're making your claim don't warrant it. The fact that a lot of people can't afford to buy boosts doesn't change the fact that there are a substantial number who can. It's like arguing that Mercedes Benz can't sell enough cars to make a profit because 98% of people on the planet cannot afford them.

I have often heard from boosters that most of their customers do not, in fact, acquire their gold via tokens. To test this I even made a poll on MMO-C a while back asking people if they paid for boosts and how. The number who bought it with gold made in-game was 4 times more than the number who used tokens. I will not pretend that this sort of survey is necessarily an accurate reflection of the playerbase as a whole. But I do think it casts serious doubts on the oft-made claim - a claim that has never even been supported by any actual evidence other than the supposed notion of "common sense" - that most boostees make use of tokens.

[Echo of Soul]

Its because there's some casuals who talk about how much casual content there used to be. But when you look at all the casual content in the past, its all still there, plus more of it. When you point this out, its usually met with "but its not rewarding enough, the gear it gives is worthless". Which leads ppl to believe its gear they want, and not content.

Remove gear from any activity and very few people will care about it.
"Casual content" used to give worthwhile rewards (although very slow) via the valor point content. When that was removed nobody wanted to do it.

It's the same with everything. Whenever someone suggests removing gear rewards from mythic raiding people have a complete meltdown.