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  1. #921
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Again, this whole argument hinges on this presumption that boosts are only ever paid for by people who buy tokens (or previously bought Chinese gold).
    That part there is why i think your reasoning is suspect. Your average Joe player would never be stupid enough to risk their account by buying from some dodgey gold seller site imho. They can buy all the gold they want from Blizzard in total saftey and legally. No risk with a click of a button.

  2. #922
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    That part there is why i think your reasoning is suspect. Your average Joe player would never be stupid enough to risk their account by buying from some dodgey gold seller site imho. They can buy all the gold they want from Blizzard in total saftey and legally. No risk with a click of a button.
    From other players, not blizzard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  3. #923
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Those who are 'wealthy' in WoW are a tiny tiny minority.
    And those who consistently buy boosts are a tiny minority, too. People just see a bunch of advertising for it and assume that "everybody" must be doing it.

  4. #924
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    From other players, not blizzard.
    No Blizzard buy gold off players and then sell it to other players for more than they bought it for.

    It's like buying milk from the store. If the store didn't buy the milk from the farmer you would have a real hard time buying that milk.

    I'm the end it doesn't matter. You can buy gold directly from the Blizzard store for real money and then buy boosts which makes WoW one of the most P2W games on the market.

  5. #925
    The only time I buy a boost is when there's a mount I want from one of Blizzard's stupid FOMO BS drops from a final raid boss that gets removed when the next expansion launches. Because of the limited time nature of such mounts, if I like the look of it, and I can't get it with my guild (it's not always possible for me to tag along in a raid when there's real raiders who wanna raid), then I'll pony up some gold to get a quick kill for it.

    I have about 16 lvl 60's at the moment and make roughly 600,000 gold a month doing nothing but mission table gold missions, the weekly anima reservoir quest, and callings on my main at the very least. Occasionally I do callings on alts if it's quick and convenient to do so and I pick up the odd paragon chest as reps tick over. I spend about 150-200k a month on game time depending on token prices, though I try to buy several tokens when the price is low. I have never spent real money to buy a token to sell for gold. It has simply never been necessary.

    Any gold I spend in game is almost always for transmog. I don't piss it away on high ilvl boe raid drops that become irrelevant with the next patch/xpac (unless it has an appearance I really like >_>). At the end of the day, I have a lot more gold coming in than I have going out, so I tend to accumulate gold that I sit on until such time as there's something I need/want to spend it on, which tends to be rare.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2022-05-19 at 12:46 AM.

  6. #926
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    No Blizzard buy gold off players and then sell it to other players for more than they bought it for.

    It's like buying milk from the store. If the store didn't buy the milk from the farmer you would have a real hard time buying that milk.

    I'm the end it doesn't matter. You can buy gold directly from the Blizzard store for real money and then buy boosts which makes WoW one of the most P2W games on the market.
    Psst... the gold the token provides you comes from players. Blizzard doesn't generate any gold through the transaction. Other people are essentially paying Blizzard a $5 premium on their sub for the service of getting it paid for via in-game currency.

  7. #927
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Psst... the gold the token provides you comes from players. Blizzard doesn't generate any gold through the transaction. Other people are essentially paying Blizzard a $5 premium on their sub for the service of getting it paid for via in-game currency.
    You can buy gold with real money directly from the store, end of story. Where it comes from, how it's made, completely irrelevant.

  8. #928
    Stood in the Fire VMSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    You can buy gold with real money directly from the store, end of story. Where it comes from, how it's made, completely irrelevant.
    One way to look at it is that people pay gold to Blizzard for something of monetary value, and Blizzard has paid people that gold for their actual money. The token is just the vehicle that Blizzard uses to facilitate both transactions and muddy the waters. Basically Blizzard is selling Player A's gold to Player B for money and giving Player A a 75% cut of that sale.

    And that's even ignoring the fact that Blizzard creates the gold in the first place and controls it's influx into the game.

  9. #929
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    You can buy gold with real money directly from the store, end of story. Where it comes from, how it's made, completely irrelevant.
    That's not how it works, though. You don't buy gold from the store. Very explicitly not. You buy a TOKEN from the store, which you can sell to other players for THEIR gold.

    Tokens don't generate gold. They don't create an influx of gold into the economy. They only shift wealth that already exists.

    All the gold in existence is generated from in-game activities.

  10. #930
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    That's not how it works, though. You don't buy gold from the store. Very explicitly not. You buy a TOKEN from the store, which you can sell to other players for THEIR gold.

    Tokens don't generate gold. They don't create an influx of gold into the economy. They only shift wealth that already exists.

    All the gold in existence is generated from in-game activities.
    IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

    If the gold is generated, made from alchemy or stolen from Jeff Kaplans grandmother it does not matter. You pay real money to Blizzard, you end up with gold in game, that's all that matters.

  11. #931
    Some of the issue is how much harder raids have become for a larger portion of the players. When raids started focusing more on pass / fail mechanics on the individual people got frustrated and quit and in some cases mid pull. The game is to hard from heroic onward along with larger time commitments being required also with the research required from not only the fights themselves but also a gear and logistical standpoint which adds to much complexity. Perhaps expansions should reset the level of difficulty ( i am not talking about Molten core here either ) but to a comparable level with gradual increases like 2-3% harder etc.

    Also the fact that raiding is a mess in general and does not scale well either. This is another reason why the entire bring the player and not the class was a better period in wow since it allowed you more freedom to complete an encounter again this is not stated for every single encounter but there are a few that makes it a night and day difference. When i started being happy i cleared a raid not because of some personal achievement but a feeling of thank fuck i dont have to do that again then it was time to realize that it just was not worth it at all.

    When comparing Mythic plus to Raiding is so different, you gear slower in mythic plus which is fine since i can do it whenever and at my own pace with a very healthy pug scene ( i pugged KSM as a Brewmaster this season ) with gaining some points even in a failed key plus you will get your item from the vault and its a no brainer. If things like the Creation Catalyst continue to be apart of the game and hell even if it isnt there will be no real reason to raid unless its your thing which is about time honestly. The other aspect is that i refuse to deal with the mindset that raiding has created since Warlords, that sorta attitude and unwillingness to teach and help people grow as a team and now its expected for them to already be a master of all things whatever their class is which honestly is absurd.

  12. #932
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

    If the gold is generated, made from alchemy or stolen from Jeff Kaplans grandmother it does not matter. You pay real money to Blizzard, you end up with gold in game, that's all that matters.
    It may or may not matter depending on what argument you make. But "you buy gold directly from the store" is still factually incorrect. And it's not unimportant that buying tokens does NOT generate new gold, because that matters a whole lot for inflation and economic stability.

  13. #933
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    It may or may not matter depending on what argument you make. But "you buy gold directly from the store" is still factually incorrect. And it's not unimportant that buying tokens does NOT generate new gold, because that matters a whole lot for inflation and economic stability.
    I was talking about P2W. Whatever other discussion people have about the token and gold is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

  14. #934
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I assume so since dungeons,raids,torghast, and mage tower don't instantly vanish...

    The issue isn't really the content but a intense burning jealousy that other people have higher ilv then them.

    I would argue for this type of player content honestly comes second compared to how they see themselves stacked against their peers.
    I find it hilarious that "casual players want more casual content that isn't pushing them into raids, dungeons, or PvP, fun engaging repeatable content that creates a sense of community" is met with "LOL THEY JEALOUS B/C THEY HAVE LOW ILVL" It's pretty much EXACTLY what I have come to expect from the WoW community.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  15. #935
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    I find it hilarious that "casual players want more casual content that isn't pushing them into raids, dungeons, or PvP, fun engaging repeatable content that creates a sense of community" is met with "LOL THEY JEALOUS B/C THEY HAVE LOW ILVL" It's pretty much EXACTLY what I have come to expect from the WoW community.
    Its because there's some casuals who talk about how much casual content there used to be. But when you look at all the casual content in the past, its all still there, plus more of it. When you point this out, its usually met with "but its not rewarding enough, the gear it gives is worthless". Which leads ppl to believe its gear they want, and not content.

  16. #936
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    I highly doubt that the people that boost who earn their own gold is enough to sustain the boosting 'industry'.
    I've played with to many people who had trouble paying for even just their repair bills for me to believe that.

    Those who are 'wealthy' in WoW are a tiny tiny minority.
    The grounds upon which you're making your claim don't warrant it. The fact that a lot of people can't afford to buy boosts doesn't change the fact that there are a substantial number who can. It's like arguing that Mercedes Benz can't sell enough cars to make a profit because 98% of people on the planet cannot afford them.

    I have often heard from boosters that most of their customers do not, in fact, acquire their gold via tokens. To test this I even made a poll on MMO-C a while back asking people if they paid for boosts and how. The number who bought it with gold made in-game was 4 times more than the number who used tokens. I will not pretend that this sort of survey is necessarily an accurate reflection of the playerbase as a whole. But I do think it casts serious doubts on the oft-made claim - a claim that has never even been supported by any actual evidence other than the supposed notion of "common sense" - that most boostees make use of tokens.

  17. #937
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Its because there's some casuals who talk about how much casual content there used to be. But when you look at all the casual content in the past, its all still there, plus more of it. When you point this out, its usually met with "but its not rewarding enough, the gear it gives is worthless". Which leads ppl to believe its gear they want, and not content.
    Remove gear from any activity and very few people will care about it.
    "Casual content" used to give worthwhile rewards (although very slow) via the valor point content. When that was removed nobody wanted to do it.

    It's the same with everything. Whenever someone suggests removing gear rewards from mythic raiding people have a complete meltdown.

  18. #938
    Epic! Malania's Avatar
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    You want to clear current content, you want that 0.01% title. I'm sorry mate but you gotta:



    Also you're being very generalist about Wrath and being deliberately obtuse to try and make a point.

    Wraths first raid was a dungeon that had been cleared before and knowledge was freely available and as then and just as now. Hard modes were entirely optional. You didn't do Firefighter or 0 lights or Sarg+3 without being at the top end of the raiding or over gearing them the following tier.

    Then, as now; Work b*tch if you really want to clear them. The phrase get gud' is relevant here.
    Last edited by Malania; 2022-05-19 at 10:53 AM.

  19. #939
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Remove gear from any activity and very few people will care about it.
    "Casual content" used to give worthwhile rewards (although very slow) via the valor point content. When that was removed nobody wanted to do it.

    It's the same with everything. Whenever someone suggests removing gear rewards from mythic raiding people have a complete meltdown.
    Thats fine, just pointing out that it is in fact about the ilvl of the gear rewarded and they should stop pretending its not.

  20. #940
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

    If the gold is generated, made from alchemy or stolen from Jeff Kaplans grandmother it does not matter. You pay real money to Blizzard, you end up with gold in game, that's all that matters.
    Theres no point debating them about this. They refuse to understand and are hellbendt that its a WHOLE different thing. Even though the effect is just the same. Smart move by Blizzard though,now they will have defenders of it everywhere.

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