STOP making the game for the top 0.01% of the players! It’s killing this game

[Mardux]

This has never been a requirement, ever. People take that term way out of context. There are other people... it doesn't mean you HAVE to interact with them. MMOs can be fully enjoyed solo. Those who do not want to interact with people are welcome to stick to LFR.

Some. Some MMOs can be fully enjoyed solo. Just because you can "fully enjoy" RuneScape or SW:TOR solo, doesn't mean you must be able to do that with all MMOs (and yes, you absolutely implied that with your statement).

[Gorsameth]

"I can't beat a challenge but I want its rewards"

Why would they want mythic BiS gear if they can't beat the boss?

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, mythic is way overcomplicated, have you tried doing heroic? Normal? LFR? There's a reason to have 4 difficulties in raiding.

Good luck to all non mythic players trying to keep with a pacing they can't.

Mythic being overcomplicated has seeped into Heroic and Normal design.

I played from Vanilla through BFA, quit after Uldir and came back for Castle. Over that time I have raided at evert level, from Mythic and its earlier equiv up to Mythic Argus and Heroic in SL. The increase in complicity and personal responsibility (where failure leads to wipes) has notably increased in recent years and its pushing out the more average raiders.

[VMSmith]

I'm not the one telling people how the fuck they should be playing WoW

Pretty much the entirety of General Discussion on this forum is non-organized people saying how they'd like to play and organized players telling them "how the fuck they should be playing WoW".

If everyone accepted that everyone else should be allowed to enjoy the game their own way there would be precious little "discussion" left here.

[Mardux]

ORLY?!



It's nice being the 10%... That was Wrath of the Lich King. lol

They had them in cata too. As to why Necromantic thinks it came from Cata and not the expac that had them before cata, im not sure.

[zysis]

They had them in cata too. As to why Necromantic thinks it came from Cata and not the expac that had them before cata, im not sure.

Well he is 90% more intelligent than us, and knows 90% more about the game. So we all just have to sit on our hands and read what Necromantic posts as gospel. People that think they can speak for everyone based on their own limited views often fall into pathological lying; where they believe their own BS.

I'm well aware of the tabbards giving rep in both expansions and as a player who did The Insane grind of three characters pre-nerf anything Blizzard throws at us via gating or rep grinds is purely casual to me. Not to say it is for anyone else, but it's most certainly not hardcore at all. Just have to be consistent and patient. -Or not do any of it. There really isn't much shoved down our throats except the legendary belt grind, and as someone with the belt on every class, it really isn't that difficult or even time-consuming. Tedious for sure, but that's really all it is. You don't have to do dailies, it is optional. -Unless of course your vanity demands that Unity be moved or brought up to 291. Not a very significant gain in terms of stats overall.

Naxx attumement in vanilla was pretty hardcore, so was the Onyxia key for Horde or the Warlords Command quest for BWL attunement. But... if you played an MMO as intended (with others) then most of that stuff was fairly easy to get. Most of the current playerbase couldn't stomach stuff like the Broodlord questline and would certainly be ranting on forums that one person in the guild got a legendary mount and they helped kill stuff but didn't get a thing. -Despite making friends (some for life) in the game and really getting to experience the true feeling of doing content as a collective ie guild.

Can't begin to even recollect how many times I've helped others over the years for no "reward" and that was just the way I came into MMO gaming, problem is that with all the current systems in the game, people don't enter the game with that mindset at all, they are purely narcissistic in the time they spend in game and don't value connections at all. In the case of the aforementioned; it seems to see others as mere stepping stones or obstacles for seeing content. Blizzard has indeed lost it's way, and I honestly think that many players are suffering as a result. -Including OP

[Necromantic]

Some. Some MMOs can be fully enjoyed solo. Just because you can "fully enjoy" RuneScape or SW:TOR solo, doesn't mean you must be able to do that with all MMOs (and yes, you absolutely implied that with your statement).

You can assume I implied whatever you want, I honestly don't care.

My point is that people who do not like playing with other people can fully enjoy an MMO. There are all kinds of them out there and I've played several with minimal contact with others. Not everyone has to play online games the same as others do.

This whole "It's an online game, stop trying to play it as single player!". Heck, after Warcraft III, there were no other single player Warcraft games made after so what option does someone have?

They had them in cata too. As to why Necromantic thinks it came from Cata and not the expac that had them before cata, im not sure.

The concept did not flourish until Cata.

[Relapses]

Mythic being overcomplicated has seeped into Heroic and Normal design.

I played from Vanilla through BFA, quit after Uldir and came back for Castle. Over that time I have raided at evert level, from Mythic and its earlier equiv up to Mythic Argus and Heroic in SL. The increase in complicity and personal responsibility (where failure leads to wipes) has notably increased in recent years and its pushing out the more average raiders.

So uh... rather than encounters be challenging and have personal responsibility, Blizzard should realize that most WoW players suck and make every encounter below Mythic a loot pinata?

Sorry m8, this is the right way forward. If it's "pushing people out" then it's doing what it should.

[Necromantic]

Sorry m8, this is the right way forward. If it's "pushing people out" then it's doing what it should.

I don't think heroic should be a loot pinata at all. Normal... meh. I'm just happy that this game has so many difficulties of the raids that anyone has the ability to experience them, even if they're "watered down". Other games, even ones that were owned by the same company could have taken pages from that book (looking at you, Destiny).

[Advent]

I don't think the game is made for the minority anymore. I've kind of come around on that and come to a different conclusion. The raiding and M+ game that a lot of people play is often better curated, more engaging, and better supported than any other part of the game, so it often looks like the developers don't care about anything but that. It can leave a bitter taste in the mouth of people who enjoy the journey of exploration, story, adventure, and collections. Which, arguably, is what an MMO should probably focus on more than anything else; going on an adventure, hopefully with other people by your side.

[NineSpine]

So uh... rather than encounters be challenging and have personal responsibility, Blizzard should realize that most WoW players suck and make every encounter below Mythic a loot pinata?

Sorry m8, this is the right way forward. If it's "pushing people out" then it's doing what it should.

Blizzard could make a lot of improvement by dumping this single minded focus on challenge and maybe concern themselves with fun instead.

- - - Updated - - -

We literally live in the new gaming era of "I want the reward without the work".

It's almost like people expect games to be fun, not to be work.

[Athenaia]

We literally live in the new gaming era of "I want the reward without the work".

Yup, and it's so f-ing retarded, maybe for Dragonflight blizzard should give eveyone every achiev in the game when we reach max lvl

[Necromantic]

It's almost like people expect games to be fun, not to be work.

Let me use a different word, effort.

[MoanaLisa]

We literally live in the new gaming era of "I want the reward without the work".

One might argue that the tendency to think of game tasks as work is wrong. As for "I want the reward without the work" I see lots of people saying that people are saying this but see very few people actually saying it.

I see no one in game saying anything like this. It's a forum thing and as such proposes a game reality which doesn't exist, i.e. it's arrogant BS.

[zysis]

The concept did not flourish until Cata.

lol wut? Is there an English version of that statement?

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard could make a lot of improvement by dumping this single minded focus on challenge and maybe concern themselves with fun instead.

I speak for many when I say that challenge = fun in video games.

[Necromantic]

One might argue that the tendency to think of game tasks as work is wrong. As for "I want the reward without the work" I see lots of people saying that people are saying this but see very few people actually saying it.

I see no one in game saying anything like this. It's a forum thing and as such proposes a game reality which doesn't exist, i.e. it's arrogant BS.

As I said above, effort. Nobody is going to state that verbatim because they know how entitled it sounds. It’s not even exclusive to this game.

[Relapses]

Blizzard could make a lot of improvement by dumping this single minded focus on challenge and maybe concern themselves with fun instead.

Challenging can be fun. These two concepts are not mutually exclusive. I will say that when it comes to some encounters Blizzard has sadly missed the mark (see: Jailer) but there are also others where a fight be both challenging and fun (see: Rygelon). YMMV of course, but I don't think the best solution is to just make things easier even if that means more people have "fun." Imo, Blizzard should focus on making encounters that rely less on mechanics which require 43 different WAs and more on making encounters with difficult mechanics that are intuitive but require a certain level of personal responsibility to pull off.

[NineSpine]

I speak for many when I say that challenge = fun in video games.

You say that, but you don't mean it. For example, calculus is hard. Would it be fun for you to have a raid fight where you just complete calculus problems? Maybe if you really like calculus, but then pick a topic you don't like. How about history? Want to write a really tough history essay as a raid encounter? Probably not. Why? Because challenge does not equal fun for anyone.

- - - Updated - - -

Challenging can be fun. These two concepts are not mutually exclusive. I will say that when it comes to some encounters Blizzard has sadly missed the mark (see: Jailer) but there are also others where a fight be both challenging and fun (see: Rygelon). YMMV of course, but I don't think the best solution is to just make things easier even if that means more people have "fun." Imo, Blizzard should focus on making encounters that rely less on mechanics which require 43 different WAs and more on making encounters with difficult mechanics that are intuitive but require a certain level of personal responsibility to pull off.

You mean they should make their encounters more like Final Fantasy 14, because what you just described is Final Fantasy 14 encounter design.

- - - Updated - - -

Let me use a different word, effort.

It would take a lot of effort to complete the quest "Kill 10,000 raptors". if that quest rewarding a BiS weapon and you still didn't want to do it, could I say "Well, you just want rewards without the effort"?

[Gorsameth]

So uh... rather than encounters be challenging and have personal responsibility, Blizzard should realize that most WoW players suck and make every encounter below Mythic a loot pinata?

Sorry m8, this is the right way forward. If it's "pushing people out" then it's doing what it should.

Why is it always jumping to 'lol loot pinata, free loot, work or die bitch'.

There is a level between 'to complicated for non-Mythic' and 'free lootz'.

[Relapses]

You mean they should make their encounters more like Final Fantasy 14, because what you just described is Final Fantasy 14 encounter design.

I'm perfectly fine with this if it means overall better raid encounters in WoW. For the record, I don't hate FFXIV, it's just not my cup of tea. I dislike how frequently it's used as a battering ram for change in WoW.

[Necromantic]

It would take a lot of effort to complete the quest "Kill 10,000 raptors". if that quest rewarding a BiS weapon and you still didn't want to do it, could I say "Well, you just want rewards without the effort"?

You can use whatever hypothetical scenario you like. The point still stands that so many today want rewards and they want them now.

I played FFXI for years and the effort to acquire the best weapons was outrageous compared to other MMOs. SE made it so even casuals can acquire ultimate-esque weapons so much easier and people still complained it took too long or required too much effort. They won’t be happy until you can log in and get them free. This isn’t everyone but that mentality is growing more common.

I’m personally fine with casuals having to work towards BiS, even if they can do it without a guild or having to rely on others much. Sure beats getting older legendary weapons they were not possible or feasible for anyone not in a guild or being a specific class. I say this as a Fangs owner.