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  1. #1461
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    This kind of sounds like you are saying luck is a factor in difficulty?
    Sometimes luck can be a factor. I know raiders who have a whoopsie in their rotation, and it takes them several more moves to recover. Sure, it could be skill, but luck does exist. My hat still goes off to the more skilled players. They tend to get lucky less frequently because of their skill level, but they are not without luck.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  2. #1462
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    Sometimes luck can be a factor. I know raiders who have a whoopsie in their rotation, and it takes them several more moves to recover. Sure, it could be skill, but luck does exist. My hat still goes off to the more skilled players. They tend to get lucky less frequently because of their skill level, but they are not without luck.
    Making a mistake in your 'rotation' isnt luck, thats skill. Luck can allow you to more easily overcome difficulty, but it doesnt change the difficulty itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  3. #1463
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Making a mistake in your 'rotation' isnt luck, thats skill. Luck can allow you to more easily overcome difficulty, but it doesnt change the difficulty itself.
    Never said difficulty was a factor. I merely stated that luck "can" be a factor.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  4. #1464
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The lack of content in the game is amazing, and it really is incredible how many people not only make excuses for it, but actively argue for how amazing it is to get so little content. The most recent FF14 patch, which is just an X.1 patch, had all of the following:

    1. New PvP mode with three maps
    2. One Ultimate raid boss
    3. An Alliance raid with four bosses
    4. A new Extreme difficulty level of a trial from the last patch
    5. One new dungeon
    6. A new Unreal difficulty of an old trial
    7. A new reputation
    8. Five new quest lines
    9. A new housing district
    10. A new system for buying housing
    11. Significant updates to some of the worst-dated content from the vanilla version of the game
    12. "Adventurer Plates", which is a system that lets you set up a customized calling card showing your character off
    13. A codex to help people catch up on the story or go over things they forgot

    FF14 gets a patch like that every FOUR MONTHS. Meanwhile, Blizzard struggles to get us a patch every 8 months, and then has us sit for up to a year at the end of an expansion getting nothing.
    I don't understand your point, you do know that every patch in wow bears something similar to this? oO' have you not played BfA and Shadowlands?
    Now if you enjoy making ads for FF14 go play it, but don't derail the topic to a vs conversation, it too seldom brings any interesting conversations

  5. #1465
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    Never said difficulty was a factor. I merely stated that luck "can" be a factor.
    Then you are talking about something entirely unrelated to the discussion you interjected into - that was a discussion where someone claimed farming mounts with low drop rates can be MORE DIFFICULT than mythic raiding, because of the luck factor. I am pointing out that luck and difficulty are not the same thing.

    Also doesnt change the fact that pushing the wrong buttons isnt luck, its skill.

    The only situation when an argument could be made that luck can impact difficulty is RNG of boss abilities, where some bosses allow for nasty overlaps of abilities - but those have ALMOST been eliminated from the game for exactly that reason. But where it remains, its still not really LUCK, its just a feature of the fight. The reason its been all but eliminated is because of how tight the tuning is now - if they tune the fight around the nasty combo occurring, then it becomes "too easy" when it doesnt occur. So they tune it around it not occurring, so when it does happen its all but impossible to overcome, so groups simply wipe the attempt and start again.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2022-05-27 at 08:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  6. #1466
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Let me put it this way: I'm about as impressed by someone's "skill" in warcraft as I am by their post count on a forum, or how many bottle caps they collected.

    The irony is that you think OTHER PEOPLE are losers for NOT defining their entire personality around killing internet dragons. It's the equivalent of trying to insult someone by telling them you have the better stamp collection. It's like being condescending because you are good at juggling.
    Hey hey hey now, juggling is fuckin hard man.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Then you are talking about something entirely unrelated to the discussion you interjected into - that was a discussion where someone claimed farming mounts with low drop rates can be MORE DIFFICULT than mythic raiding, because of the luck factor. I am pointing out that luck and difficulty are not the same thing.

    Also doesnt change the fact that pushing the wrong buttons isnt luck, its skill.

    The only situation when an argument could be made that luck can impact difficulty is RNG of boss abilities, where some bosses allow for nasty overlaps of abilities - but those have ALMOST been eliminated from the game for exactly that reason. But where it remains, its still not really LUCK, its just a feature of the fight. The reason its been all but eliminated is because of how tight the tuning is now - if they tune the fight around the nasty combo occurring, then it becomes "too easy" when it doesnt occur. So they tune it around it not occurring, so when it does happen its all but impossible to overcome, so groups simply wipe the attempt and start again.
    Bolded bit. To be fair, I would argue that someone who just occasionally (to be generous) or rarely fucks up could be chalked up to bad luck a la "The cat jumped on my keyboard". If they repeatedly fuck up their rotation, then I'd say its skill (or lack thereof). Though I'm really just trying to kill the last 5 minutes of my shift here and know you probably aren't referring to those kinds of moments.
    Last edited by AcidicSyn; 2022-05-27 at 08:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  7. #1467
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    I don't understand your point, you do know that every patch in wow bears something similar to this? oO' have you not played BfA and Shadowlands?
    Now if you enjoy making ads for FF14 go play it, but don't derail the topic to a vs conversation, it too seldom brings any interesting conversations
    WoW patches are typically smaller than this, and we get half as many.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  8. #1468
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    I don't understand your point, you do know that every patch in wow bears something similar to this? oO' have you not played BfA and Shadowlands?
    Now if you enjoy making ads for FF14 go play it, but don't derail the topic to a vs conversation, it too seldom brings any interesting conversations
    Here's the thing, I've played wow on and off since BC. I want to play Wow as an mmo, and I can't even bring myself to download FF14, because it's just too much of a commitment at my age, and I like wow's combat, system, world, characters. I have too much invested in the game just to drop it, and switch. They just need to get the other stuff together again. So even though FF14 may have more content coming through. It hasn't done anything to sway me. To me Wow is synonymous with MMO, and it'll probably always be like that for me. This isn't to say FF14 is the better option right now, but It just never appealed to me.

  9. #1469
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    Bolded bit. To be fair, I would argue that someone who just occasionally (to be generous) or rarely fucks up could be chalked up to bad luck a la "The cat jumped on my keyboard". If they repeatedly fuck up their rotation, then I'd say its skill (or lack thereof). Though I'm really just trying to kill the last 5 minutes of my shift here and know you probably aren't referring to those kinds of moments.
    Cats walking on keyboards? Time to walk away from the discussion at this point, thats absolutely absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  10. #1470
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Then you are talking about something entirely unrelated to the discussion you interjected into - that was a discussion where someone claimed farming mounts with low drop rates can be MORE DIFFICULT than mythic raiding, because of the luck factor.
    You are correct.luck and difficulty are not the same thing. However, I will reference your quote here to make sure I am not misunderstood as it pertains to your comment. Farming a rare mount with an extremely low percentage drop rate is more difficult than mythic raiding. Not only does it require luck, but shares traiting with raiding such as patience, persistence, and timing. If I were to offer an example, I have completed most of the raids in the game, and even a handful of those in Mythic. However, in 16 years of playing WoW, I have defeated all of these raids multiple times, yet after 2,316 confirmed kills on the Lich King, I still do not possess Invincible. If ANY raid too 2,316 tries to defeat it, people would be frustrated and pissed. So yes, I agree that farming rare mounts is far more difficult than raiding where all you have to do is learn mechanics, instead of... get lucky with RNG.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  11. #1471
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    You are correct.luck and difficulty are not the same thing. However, I will reference your quote here to make sure I am not misunderstood as it pertains to your comment. Farming a rare mount with an extremely low percentage drop rate is more difficult than mythic raiding. Not only does it require luck, but shares traiting with raiding such as patience, persistence, and timing. If I were to offer an example, I have completed most of the raids in the game, and even a handful of those in Mythic. However, in 16 years of playing WoW, I have defeated all of these raids multiple times, yet after 2,316 confirmed kills on the Lich King, I still do not possess Invincible. If ANY raid too 2,316 tries to defeat it, people would be frustrated and pissed. So yes, I agree that farming rare mounts is far more difficult than raiding where all you have to do is learn mechanics, instead of... get lucky with RNG.
    But it didnt take you 2,316 attempts to DEFEAT it, on the contrary, it is SO EASY you have defeated it 2,316 times. I also LOVE your comment that all you have to do to raid is "learn mechanics" - what a silly argument. Learning the mechanics, which is something that can be done before the content even goes live, is only a SMALL PART of raiding, and a small part of the difficulty - execution is where the skill and difficulty come in, along with gearing, preparing, coordination and cooperation, communication, etc etc.

    Let me put it this way - the average person would walk a distance equal to roughly 40 marathons per YEAR. That does not mean it can be related in ANY WAY to actually running 1 marathon, let alone 40 of them.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2022-05-27 at 09:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  12. #1472
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    WoW patches are typically smaller than this, and we get half as many.
    You're both proving that you haven't played recent expansions or stayed informed about recent patches and this vs conversations will go nowhere.

  13. #1473
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    You're both proving that you haven't played recent expansions or stayed informed about recent patches and this vs conversations will go nowhere.
    The patch cadence for BFA was 5 months, 6, months, 7 months. And then it took 10 months for Shadowlands to come out. 9.1 took 7 months. 9.2 took 8 months.

    FF14 gets a minimum of 5 content patches per expansion. Blizzard struggled to produce TWO of them for Shadowlands. We are coming up on the second patch for Endwalker and Endwalker came out IN DECEMBER. Shadowlands is on its second patch and it came out over a year earlier.

    You are correct a conversation based on your pure, blissful, condescending ignorance will go nowhere.
    Last edited by NineSpine; 2022-05-27 at 10:25 PM.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  14. #1474
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Let's drop the game vs. game derailment (WoW vs. FF14) and return to the actual topic at hand.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  15. #1475
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    I also LOVE your comment that all you have to do to raid is "learn mechanics" - what a silly argument.
    If you have the gear, and you have memorized the YouTube Video, you can beat the raid, especially if you get LUCKY and have some non-scrubs running with you.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  16. #1476
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    If you have the gear, and you have memorized the YouTube Video, you can beat the raid, especially if you get LUCKY and have some non-scrubs running with you.
    Tell that to anyone who actually raids mythic. I know that to run a marathon, all I need to do is know the route, and put one foot Infront of the other. Doesn't mean it's easy.

    I can know the ingredients to a cake, doesn't mean I can bake an award winning cake.


    Now if you are talking normal, that's a little different, but it's still not as you say, otherwise a bunch of randoms with minimum entry level gear could watch a YouTube video, then 1 shot every boss with no experience or coms.

    I know that to paint a picture, I just put paint on a brush and slap it on canvas, doesn't mean I can paint a masterpiece.

    What I'm getting at, is that knowledge is a factor, absolutely, but execution is a huge factor, and anyone who performs any activity at the highest level will say the same.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2022-05-28 at 01:42 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  17. #1477
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The patch cadence for BFA was 5 months, 6, months, 7 months. And then it took 10 months for Shadowlands to come out. 9.1 took 7 months. 9.2 took 8 months.

    FF14 gets a minimum of 5 content patches per expansion. Blizzard struggled to produce TWO of them for Shadowlands. We are coming up on the second patch for Endwalker and Endwalker came out IN DECEMBER. Shadowlands is on its second patch and it came out over a year earlier.

    You are correct a conversation based on your pure, blissful, condescending ignorance will go nowhere.
    Yeah but FF doesn't have mythic raids that drops gear that casuals can't get so it's objectively a worse game. In fact if I'm not mistaken casuals can get the same gear as raiders from doing LFG type content, that's fucked up.

  18. #1478
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Yeah but FF doesn't have mythic raids that drops gear that casuals can't get so it's objectively a worse game. In fact if I'm not mistaken casuals can get the same gear as raiders from doing LFG type content, that's fucked up.
    Everything you stated about ffxiv is wrong lol. There's ultimate which drop gear casuals cant get. The gear from lfg is the catchup gear its like complaining you can get 252s from wq in wow lol.

  19. #1479
    Quote Originally Posted by Uko View Post
    Everything you stated about ffxiv is wrong lol. There's ultimate which drop gear casuals cant get. The gear from lfg is the catchup gear its like complaining you can get 252s from wq in wow lol.
    Ultimates don't drop gear as far as I know, only cosmetics and I'm pretty sure that the tomestone gear is equal to the raid gear.

  20. #1480
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Ultimates don't drop gear as far as I know, only cosmetics and I'm pretty sure that the tomestone gear is equal to the raid gear.
    The normal raid gear you have to do the savage mode to get the highest tier of gear.

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