STOP making the game for the top 0.01% of the players! It’s killing this game

[ellieg]

Casual mythic raider is an oxymoron. The belief that you can complete the hardest content in the game and call yourself a casual is deluded. Content that also requires scheduling, organization, performance (above and beyond the bell curve), and investment far beyond the norm.

As is the belief that casual has to do with what content you're doing, and not how you approach the content.

Someone who logs on once a week or so and does some world quests and rares in ZM? Casual.

Someone who logs on everyday to ensure they hit up every single world quest, daily, and rare to maximize rep? Not casual

Someone who logs on once a week or so to knock out some +15s in the vault? Casual

Someone who logs on every day to fully fill up their vault? Not casual

Someone who logs on once a week to raid mythic for 3 hours? Casual

Someone who logs on everyday to grind out their 3000 ratings to buy 278 conduits, max fills vaults to get more options or currency to buy sockets, raids 3x a week, pushes thru heroic to get more chances at tier? Not casual

[Glorious Leader]

Someone who logs on once a week to raid mythic for 3 hours? Casual

This is delusional. This content requires commitment far beyond the norm, not to mention performance well above the curve. To wit, if you raid mythic you are simple not casual. Bottom tier hardcore is better. Worlds 9999.

[ellieg]

This is delusional. This content requires commitment far beyond the norm, not to mention performance well above the curve. To wit, if you raid mythic you are simple not casual. Bottom tier hardcore is better. Worlds 9999.

3 hours a week is not a lot of commitment.

And ill say it again, performance has nothing to do with whether or not u are casual. Unless you are trying to classify all casuals as low skilled?

[Glorious Leader]

3 hours a week is not a lot of commitment.

Its not simple 3 hours a week and commitment is not exclusively measured in hours.

Performance absolutely does matter because it requires investment both in time but also energy. To be able to defeat mythic content you have to be better than average obviously and since as far as I'm aware that's not god given you had to invest in learning to play your particular class and role particularly to the degree wherein you are far more likely to be committed to optimization as much as possible.

Casual is an attitude. The 3 hour mythic CE guy cares far too much to be considered casual.

[ellieg]

Its not simple 3 hours a week and commitment is not exclusively measured in hours.

Performance absolutely does matter because it requires investment both in time but also energy. To be able to defeat mythic content you have to be better than average obviously and since as far as I'm aware that's not god given you had to invest in learning to play your particular class and role particularly to the degree wherein you are far more likely to be committed to optimization as much as possible.

Casual is an attitude. The 3 hour mythic CE guy cares far too much to be considered casual.

Are you claiming that there aren't mythic raiders that have 1 3 hr raid night that they literally raid log for?

And maybe someone like you has to invest a lot of time into playing well. But there's plenty of ppl who are just good at the game, can load it up and rock out the rotation.

You are also ignoring a very large group of players that used to go hard years ago, but have since gotten older and play more casually now. The skills are still there. They are just casually logging on 1 night a week for 3 hrs, then waiting until next week.

I haven't mentioned CE in any of my posts. You can be a mythic raider without getting CE.

If you want to call casuals bad players, go ahead and do so if it makes u feel better about yourself.

[Glorious Leader]

If you want to call casuals bad players, go ahead and do so if it makes u feel better about yourself.

You are wilfully ignoring what I'm saying in an attempt to goad me. I'll say one last time and then you're going on ignore. Casual is an attitude, its an approach to the game. If you care enough to defeat mythic bosses on a regular you are not casual despite your perverse desire to identify as one. I can only imagine its to salve your ego. You could be worlds first or server first or some other arbitrary achieve but you're far too "casual" to actually try.

[AcidicSyn]

~snip~
You are also ignoring a very large group of players that used to go hard years ago, but have since gotten older and play more casually now. The skills are still there. They are just casually logging on 1 night a week for 3 hrs, then waiting until next week.
~snip~

Quoting this bit one more time for the people in the back.

[Glorious Leader]

Honestly I'll put myself in this category! I have ksm on three chars and should hit 3k on one this week. I don't raid at all or play the game like it is a second job but I'm definitely not a casual either. Just a bottom tier hardcore!

I had ksm in season 1 of SL and the heroic raid achieve. We raided 2 nights a week. I did not consider myself casual at that time because I was well ahead of what the majority had achieved in the game and my commitment to the game was much higher than most people. I actually cared.

[ellieg]

You are wilfully ignoring what I'm saying in an attempt to goad me. I'll say one last time and then you're going on ignore. In my own opinion, my definition of Casual is an attitude, its an approach to the game. If you care enough to defeat mythic bosses on a regular you are not casual despite your perverse desire to identify as one. I can only imagine its to salve your ego. You could be worlds first or server first or some other arbitrary achieve but you're far too "casual" to actually try.

There. Just fixed your post.

You have a definition that some others share, but many others disagree with. That's fine. But going around telling others that they are wrong, and casuals are bad players is a little uncalled for.

[kingj56]

I dont mind raids being hard but leave that for mythic and halfway thru a tier on heroic. It doesnt need to be crushing. Let solo content also be difficult like towers because thats where players can improve alone. Make Torghast casual friendly and completely optional, I wouldn mind more torghast in the future contents as long as its purely optional like Mage Tower. Bring back alts. I like raid logging but leveling a new toon to raid with my friends is fun too and something i missed in WotLK. Lastly, for the love of GOD dont touch loot again. I like raid logging and never having to feel pressured to do mythics or any bonus content for loot because clearing normal raid only drops me 1 piece. Speaking of... JUST BRING BACK FUCKING BADGES/Vendors! Then I dont have to worry about raiding so much.

[ellieg]

I had ksm in season 1 of SL and the heroic raid achieve. We raided 2 nights a week. I did not consider myself casual at that time because I was well ahead of what the majority had achieved in the game and my commitment to the game was much higher than most people. I actually cared.

2 scheduled nights a week, doing m+ to grind up score, ya id agree that wasn't casual.

[Soon-TM]

They do though. Just because you don't interact with people does not mean others don't.

I interacted with people just fine, just not within a guild framework (SL killed it). But assumptions are fun

[MoanaLisa]

As is the belief that casual has to do with what content you're doing, and not how you approach the content.

Someone who logs on once a week or so and does some world quests and rares in ZM? Casual.

Someone who logs on everyday to ensure they hit up every single world quest, daily, and rare to maximize rep? Not casual

Someone who logs on once a week or so to knock out some +15s in the vault? Casual

Someone who logs on every day to fully fill up their vault? Not casual

Someone who logs on once a week to raid mythic for 3 hours? Casual

Someone who logs on everyday to grind out their 3000 ratings to buy 278 conduits, max fills vaults to get more options or currency to buy sockets, raids 3x a week, pushes thru heroic to get more chances at tier? Not casual

Doubleagent: The character that has leveled to end game by picking flowers on Panda Isle for several years and nothing else. Casual or hardcore? I'd say the latter. At least while he's leveling up...

[Atrea]

If people are having a hard time pugging normal raids, it has nothing to do with the difficulty of the raid and everything to do with the people who are organizing the groups.

Either that or the people applying to them are not as socially-adept as they believe themselves to be.

[ellieg]

Doubleagent: The character that has leveled to end game by picking flowers on Panda Isle for several years and nothing else. Casual or hardcore? I'd say the latter. At least while he's leveling up...

Definitely hardcore while leveling.

[Freighter]

Casual mythic raider is an oxymoron. The belief that you can complete the hardest content in the game and call yourself a casual is deluded. Content that also requires scheduling, organization, performance (above and beyond the bell curve), and investment far beyond the norm.

I'm soon at 3000 rating and I have killed the first 2 bosses in mythic. I barely spend any time on the game, I'm just decent at it.

[Tyris Flare]

We resolved this entire conversation is in the post in my sig!

Freighter is a Hardcore Hobbyist, same with all these other people who get CE in 2 days a week.

Echo et al are Hardcore Lifestylers.

Collectors who play the game all the time (often more than raiders) but don't do any "real"
content are Casual Lifestylers.

People who don't post on these (or any) forums and flit between games are Casual Hobbyists.

It's a much better paradigm that the endless attempts to define casual!

[cparle87]

People die in LFR, bosses wipe us, and it takes FOREVER to kill the bosses. Like a LFR boss kill is about 4-5 times the length of a boss in TBC Classic.

The focus and performance you need for LFR nowadays is absurd, compared to what it used to be, and to what non-LFRs used to be.

LFR is a vicious, self reinforcing cycle. People go into it with the mindset of "everyone in here is going to suck and even if they don't they're not going to try so why should I bother trying?"

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Always do LFR on reset day if you can. Dramatically easier

[Glorious Leader]

Always do LFR on reset day if you can. Dramatically easier

I did it a couple times actually zonal isn't to bad. The most wipes I had was like 4.