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  1. #841
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Agree. Maybe not significantly, but certainly easier. It was flex before it was normal, and normal mode raiders at the time found it EXTREMELY EASY. Now those same players are most likely purely doing normal, or not at all. I'm really surprised by how they chose to take the difficulty. Yes, mythic became an arms race between devs and top teams, but that's like 1% or less of the players - and I don't mind if they keep making that harder and harder as required, although to be fair, I'm out of the mythic game so don't want to speak FOR those players anymore. What confuses the fuck out of me is why normal and heroic were made so much harder.

    It STARTED in legion, but legion normal seemed quite straight forward. I was always on a low geared toon, but had experienced the fights, but most of the players in THAT guild had not seen them ever. We noticed a FEW fights that seemed heroic difficulty in normal, now basically all normal bosses are equal to a early heroic (when flex was added).

    Flex used to be perfect for those who wanted to do the raid with a dedicated group of players, wanted a little more challenge than LFR and wanted flex in raid numbers. Now I don't know wtf it is.

    I think they have convinced themselves there needs to be a clear path from lfr - normal - heroic - mythic, but that's HORRIBLY outdated and they have the data to prove it. A tiny percentage of players who only completed normal on a certain tier EVER move into a mythic guild. Some do, for sure, but for the most part, I think they need to accept that some players have no interest climbing through difficulties.
    I think reducing the ability bloat, especially on normal but potentially on all difficulties, would go a long way.

    Compare the amount of things you need to deal with on for example Kargath Bladefist (first boss of WoD) with Shriekwing (first boss of SL).
    Normal mode bosses, especially the first half of a raid, should probably not have more then 1 mechanic per role (Tank/DPS/Healer)
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  2. #842
    Warchief Progenitor Aquarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    OP is kind of person to 'beat' game on LFR in 1 day than complain there is no more dungeon or raid content to do
    No. This needs to be more balanced. We actually need more content and a bit easier gameplay so that everyone can take a part of it.

  3. #843
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    OP is kind of person to 'beat' game on LFR in 1 day than complain there is no more dungeon or raid content to do
    Not really. It there is no point in doing them in the first place in terms of gear. Zereth Mortis gives better gear than LFR and any dungeons. It will also be quicker just to make your tier gear than the 20 times you would have to clear the raid to get your 4 set. I only cleared LFR once to get the quest done and just to see it. That is why so many people dip out after patches. If you are a queuer and don't like running that same few dungeons ad nauseam you do the quests and get the exalted rep then tap out till the next patch. I guess that is why they are trying to make riads and what not relevant again in the next patch. All content in wow is pointless as soon as a new patch drops.

  4. #844
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Apparently drop rates define difficulty for some. I suppose I understand that but the frequency with which you press the correct button is really the skill level decider in many games.
    So you are saying farming shiny Pokemon isn't hard either? Or in wow terms, farming rare mounts with a 0,1 drop chance. Well, you are wrong. Because difficulty can be defined differently. I find it harder to kill a boss 200 times over the curse of 200 weeks than it is to clear a mythic raid and be lucky with a 100% endboss drop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Not really. It there is no point in doing them in the first place in terms of gear. Zereth Mortis gives better gear than LFR and any dungeons. It will also be quicker just to make your tier gear than the 20 times you would have to clear the raid to get your 4 set. I only cleared LFR once to get the quest done and just to see it. That is why so many people dip out after patches. If you are a queuer and don't like running that same few dungeons ad nauseam you do the quests and get the exalted rep then tap out till the next patch. I guess that is why they are trying to make riads and what not relevant again in the next patch. All content in wow is pointless as soon as a new patch drops.
    Not only is content pointless as soon as a new patch drops, lower difficulty are the same as soon as people can't get upgrades anymore. Legion Legendaries paired with Titanforging helped a lot with that, but Shadowlands has neither. Season 4 upgrades should atleast make people wanna farm normal/heroic again just to get base items, which is good for everyone as people who already have enough gear to overpower a raid will be more willing to help other peoples instead of just doing boosting.

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  5. #845
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    So you are saying farming shiny Pokemon isn't hard either? Or in wow terms, farming rare mounts with a 0,1 drop chance. Well, you are wrong. Because difficulty can be defined differently. I find it harder to kill a boss 200 times over the curse of 200 weeks than it is to clear a mythic raid and be lucky with a 100% endboss drop.
    Sorry but this is just objectively wrong.

    Farming shiny Pokemon is not difficult at all. It literally just takes time. Same with repeatedly doing a boss over and over.
    Lich King Heroic is not hard. You can kill him with a single button. It just takes time for the mount to drop.

    You saying you find it harder does not mean it actually is harder for you. You just don't like having to invest the time and wrongfully think that must mean it is difficulty. You're confusing "difficulty" with "effort based on time", a problem a lot of WoW players have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    No. This needs to be more balanced. We actually need more content and a bit easier gameplay so that everyone can take a part of it.
    There is already plenty of that. The vast majority of content can be done without even needing a group (Questing, Pet Battles, PvP etc.).
    The only content that you can't really pug are the hardest Heroic raid bosses and most of Mythic, but somehow people like you still think there is too much "non casual" content that everyone can do.

    LFR exists so casuals can see the content. If you want to get the rewards for beating the difficult content, you need to actually beat the difficult content.

    The game is more casual friendly than ever but people keep lying about it in hopes of getting more free loot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    I think reducing the ability bloat, especially on normal but potentially on all difficulties, would go a long way.

    Compare the amount of things you need to deal with on for example Kargath Bladefist (first boss of WoD) with Shriekwing (first boss of SL).
    Normal mode bosses, especially the first half of a raid, should probably not have more then 1 mechanic per role (Tank/DPS/Healer)
    Why? It is already literally braindead content. Do you just want to not kill anything and get loot for free?
    If people seriously can't beat those bosses on Normal they don't deserve to play the game tbh. How did they even manage to hit the login button?

  6. #846
    I see a lot of people here complaining about normal raid difficulty and I have to ask this. Has normal mode really gotten that much harder? I stopped playing after doing 4/10 mythic on CN and I remember that normal mode CN was kinda piss easy the moment it dropped with maybe denathrius and stone legion Generals requiring a few wipes which is.... normal?
    Was SoD and SoTFO normal really that much more difficult? I ve been playing on and off since vanilla so I have experienced all raids in normal mode and heroic and whenever I feel like it I ve dabbled in some mythic raiding as well during the times in my life where I had more time and patience. I dont really remember normal mode ever being hard and non-puggable minus the obvious terrible group outliers

  7. #847
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    Sorry but this is just objectively wrong.

    Farming shiny Pokemon is not difficult at all. It literally just takes time. Same with repeatedly doing a boss over and over.
    Lich King Heroic is not hard. You can kill him with a single button. It just takes time for the mount to drop.

    You saying you find it harder does not mean it actually is harder for you. You just don't like having to invest the time and wrongfully think that must mean it is difficulty. You're confusing "difficulty" with "effort based on time", a problem a lot of WoW players have.

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    There is already plenty of that. The vast majority of content can be done without even needing a group (Questing, Pet Battles, PvP etc.).
    The only content that you can't really pug are the hardest Heroic raid bosses and most of Mythic, but somehow people like you still think there is too much "non casual" content that everyone can do.

    LFR exists so casuals can see the content. If you want to get the rewards for beating the difficult content, you need to actually beat the difficult content.

    The game is more casual friendly than ever but people keep lying about it in hopes of getting more free loot.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Why? It is already literally braindead content. Do you just want to not kill anything and get loot for free?
    If people seriously can't beat those bosses on Normal they don't deserve to play the game tbh. How did they even manage to hit the login button?
    No, you are wrong. Because, again, FOR ME, killing mythic raid bosses IS EASIER than having to farm a boss 300 times with the chance to never see the mount. Hence I raid mythic. Because it's easier to get the mounts this way. Both things are difficult in their own way though.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  8. #848
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    I guess OP doesn't want to just "clear the bosses", they want to clear it on Mythic and have their loot. Join a better guild or suck it up.

  9. #849
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    "Please stop making content designed for hardcore raiders only, it's driving us players who want other things to do away!"

    "Hahahaha OP is a scrub probably never raided anything other than LFR. Get good scrub, or quit, hahaha!"

    And yall wonder why sub numbers are in the shitter. There are lots of people who want to live and exist and be immersed in the World of Warcraft. But when they have nothing to do but raid or die, they get bored and quit.
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  10. #850
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    "Please stop making content designed for hardcore raiders only, it's driving us players who want other things to do away!"

    "Hahahaha OP is a scrub probably never raided anything other than LFR. Get good scrub, or quit, hahaha!"

    And yall wonder why sub numbers are in the shitter. There are lots of people who want to live and exist and be immersed in the World of Warcraft. But when they have nothing to do but raid or die, they get bored and quit.
    But there is more casual content right now than ever before. The problem is they showered casuals with basically a free 252 ilvl set that makes half of the casual content worthless when it comes to progressing your char.

  11. #851
    No. You will either raid or farm a 0.0001% drop chance 20th reskin of a mount from a "rare" mob with a daily lockout in Korthia or Zereth Mortis.

    Nothing else.

  12. #852
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    Farming shiny Pokemon is not difficult at all. It literally just takes time. Same with repeatedly doing a boss over and over.
    Lich King Heroic is not hard. You can kill him with a single button. It just takes time for the mount to drop.
    It's difficult in the same way that brushing your teeth every day is difficult, you just have to not be a complete fuckup and it's no problem.

  13. #853
    Quote Originally Posted by stansted12 View Post
    I wouldn't mind end game content being hard what I think puts people off is the huge time/social commitment. I'm an adult I couldn't even think about a hardcore raid schedule.
    "Hardcore" raiding doesn't really exist anymore. Back in vanilla/TBC, as a schoolboy, I used to raid 4-5 times a week. Nowadays, as an adult, I raid twice a week, for 3h per session. And you know what? 90% of guilds raid like that too. They might have an optional 3rd raid, but the vast majority of guilds I know of raid twice a week, 6h or 8h total, depending on if their raids are 3h or 4h.

  14. #854
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    Why? It is already literally braindead content. Do you just want to not kill anything and get loot for free?
    If people seriously can't beat those bosses on Normal they don't deserve to play the game tbh. How did they even manage to hit the login button?
    Your seriously overestimate how good the average player is.
    Yes WoW is not hard, I agree. But the people how find normal to be braindead are not the audience for Normal mode raids.
    Remember how terrible the average pug/lfr player is and then remember half of them are worse.

    If you look at the difference between WoD normal and SL normal there is a marked increase in fight complexity and for the 'bad' people who don't find normal braindead easy that is a problem. Why do you care that Normal is to easy? surely your not actually doing them yourself. Let Mythic be for the 'skilled' players, normal for the braindead masses and have Heroic sit in between.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  15. #855
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    But there is more casual content right now than ever before. The problem is they showered casuals with basically a free 252 ilvl set that makes half of the casual content worthless when it comes to progressing your char.
    Sentence 1 basically contradicts sentence 2. "There's lots of content but the vast majority of it is irrelevant." If the content is not fun, engaging, or worthwhile, can we really call it casual content?
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  16. #856
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Sentence 1 basically contradicts sentence 2. "There's lots of content but the vast majority of it is irrelevant." If the content is not fun, engaging, or worthwhile, can we really call it casual content?
    Its the same content thats been there, plus more. Its the reward structure that is off. Thats all I'm trying to point out.

  17. #857
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Sentence 1 basically contradicts sentence 2. "There's lots of content but the vast majority of it is irrelevant." If the content is not fun, engaging, or worthwhile, can we really call it casual content?
    I assume so since dungeons,raids,torghast, and mage tower don't instantly vanish...

    The issue isn't really the content but a intense burning jealousy that other people have higher ilv then them.

    I would argue for this type of player content honestly comes second compared to how they see themselves stacked against their peers.

  18. #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    So you are saying farming shiny Pokemon isn't hard either? Or in wow terms, farming rare mounts with a 0,1 drop chance. Well, you are wrong. Because difficulty can be defined differently. I find it harder to kill a boss 200 times over the curse of 200 weeks than it is to clear a mythic raid and be lucky with a 100% endboss drop.
    I did say 'for some.' Operative word is some. I guess you missed that.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  19. #859
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    So you are saying farming shiny Pokemon isn't hard either? Or in wow terms, farming rare mounts with a 0,1 drop chance. Well, you are wrong. Because difficulty can be defined differently. I find it harder to kill a boss 200 times over the curse of 200 weeks than it is to clear a mythic raid and be lucky with a 100% endboss drop.
    This kind of sounds like you are saying luck is a factor in difficulty?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  20. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    This should be stressed on this website. MMOs existed well before instancing was a thing. WoW was probably the first major MMO to include instancing as a serious feature. The first instance I ever became aware of was the Corellian Corvette instance in SWG.

    Massively is, as you say, relating to the world of the game. It's the fact that hundreds or even thousands of players are interacting in the same game world simultaneously. It has nothing to do with instances, dungeons, raids, etc...
    The second M is multiplayer and for pretty much all of gaming history multiplayer didn't just mean there just happened to be other people around. So while the games used a lot of outdoor content, the intent was to get a group of people together to take down even outdoor content. However the companies then began to realize said content would just end up being a group of people keeping it on lockdown and instanced content was the solution. So sure, if they want to make actually challenging bosses out in the open world that you'd cry that you can't get because the top guild always gets it, I'm pretty sure you'd be much more open to instances. MMOs existed before instances, but you still damn well needed other people together.

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