STOP making the game for the top 0.01% of the players! It’s killing this game

[zysis]

Yeah it's something I thought of years ago- when Blizzard started making bank, and they did, they could afford marketing (ugh) "Gurus" and the worst flavour of human; accountants. Suddenly the game wasn't made by gamers, it was made by metrics and bean counters. This is where we are right now, the victims of our own years of toil in the game have led us to create this beast that has studied us all in great detail and thus declares it knows what we want purely based on numbers. It's easy to see there's not a single shred of data thrown in that mix in regard to the average guild size and the average player in a raiding guild. Most friends from vanilla do M+ simply because in that narrow bandwidth of gameplay you are far more likely to play with friends (of what few are left) and not have to be at the mercy of noobs because try as you may, you don't get to spend time teaching them and they don't care to listen because they can simply drop out and find another group instantly.

Not a very good system for an MMO.

[arkanon]

Open the dungeon finder, click on the Raid finder icon, select the boss you want to kill and kill it, stop asking for blizzard to nerf the game because you're bad, sick

You understand they want to kill the mythic bosses for bis loot though, right? So for some reason, many feel they are too good for lfr, but clearly not good enough for mythic, but they want the mythic loot.

[shise]

Open the dungeon finder, click on the Raid finder icon, select the boss you want to kill and kill it, stop asking for blizzard to nerf the game because you're bad, sick

It´s people like this individual who have brought an absurd level of toxicty over.

No, game is not fine, it is unnecesarily overcomplicated. It has nothing to do with skills. You have amazing players struggling, because it is not about being good at WoW anymore, it is about being good at managing and setting up addons to be able to avoid 1 shot mechanics that none (yes, none) can see coming by merely playing the game without mods and ultra detailed guides telling you what to do... and in occasion live.. (positioning addons, Weak Auras spotting, etc) Sorry, that is no WoW skill.. that is having nothing better to do with your time.

Try to play the raids with no prior info other than, maybe, reading (yes reading not watching) a guide. No addons or other information allowed.

Good luck, you will simply wipe for weeks and come back here in agreement. Well, on second thought, you might not, because your kind does not aknoledge, only attack behind their screen for no reason. Very damaged people...

[Glazey]

It´s people like this individual who have brought an absurd level of toxicty over.

No, game is not fine, it is unnecesarily overcomplicated. It has nothing to do with skills. You have amazing players struggling, because it is not about being good at WoW anymore, it is about being good at managing and setting up addons to be able to avoid 1 shot mechanics that none (yes, none) can see coming by merely playing the game without mods and ultra detailed guides telling you what to do... and in occasion live.. (positioning addons, Weak Auras spotting, etc) Sorry, that is no WoW skill.. that is having nothing better to do with your time.

Try to play the raids with no prior info other than, maybe, reading (yes reading not watching) a guide. No addons or other information allowed.

Good luck, you will simply wipe for weeks and come back here in agreement. Well, on second thought, you might not, because your kind does not aknoledge, only attack behind their screen for no reason. Very damaged people...

dats sum keker shit

[Nymrohd]

So, the solutions? Well, they can't take the rug from under the feet of those who are now used to this system and rely on it, BUT I do think what they can do is give a classic option for grouping. Or, I suppose they could be very bold and say no group finder until X amount of time into an expansion, similar to how pathfinder functioned, but for grouping. Sort of like attunement, but one that would take time. Yea, people would complain, but oh well at some point you have to put your foot down, because listening to all this advice from these players has resulted in the game becoming way worse, and that's not even opinion, the game objectively is performing way worse than ever. Not revenue, but the community and number of subs.

I think that they should focus on positive reinforcement instead of negative. Let people complete content anti-socially. Heck even make it easier, more funds for the game.
But at the same time identify what is the foundation of the social web of the game and fortify it. Societies do that all the time, just look at how many laws there are to protect the family structure in any given country. If we identify the guild as the main social unit of WoW (and I agree that it is) what we need is to incentivize people playing in guilds without the disastrous decision of Cata to stratify guilds. Bring back OP guild traits, make completing group content while in a guild very rewarding. Use guild challenges but add rewards beyond gold there, potentially even extra loot which is the one thing everyone care about and ofc more guild cosmetics (unique pets and mounts). At the same time, punish anti-social behaviour that tries to allow people to fake group activity, i.e. boosting. Many people are OK with doing things solo because boosting is readily available and often fairly cheap (especially considering at least the US and EU regions have players with VERY different purchasing power).
And also, let people join multiple guilds. Do not make people choose between their group of friends who are hopeless at the game and their raid group.

[Nite92]

I likely know more about the game than 90% of the people who post here, and judging by so many of the comments I've read, I'm being very generous. So many things I've read people say are "hard" and I think "man, I hope you never play Dark Souls..." There are more bad players than good players in any video game, so there will be players who think things are harder than they really are or are measuring "being hard" by an extremely flawed metric because it's the only metric they can rationalize to support their stance.

Example: Fat Joe cannot jump more than 3" off the ground. Therefore, Fat Joe says jumping is one of life's "hard things to do".

Wow, what a scientific mind you are. Thanks Sherklock, for the most obvious analogy on MMO-C.

You do realize, that difficulty can manifest in different ways. Dark Souls is about learning patterns, having decent reaction times, and pretty good "motor skills" in terms of exact execution. Just because you don't need good reaction times and good motor skills for WoW PvE, that does not mean that it is not difficult.
If you ever were in a HoF/WF situation, you would understand better, that different skillsets go into WoW. It is not about a fight being super mechanically challenging (i.e., Dark Souls), the difficulty lies in being very consistent, while playing your class on a high level. Dark Souls would have easier tasks for the individual if 20 people needed to kill the boss at the same time, but having to perform easier tasks consistently is still difficulty in itself.

[potis]

It´s people like this individual who have brought an absurd level of toxicty over.

No, game is not fine, it is unnecesarily overcomplicated. It has nothing to do with skills. You have amazing players struggling, because it is not about being good at WoW anymore, it is about being good at managing and setting up addons to be able to avoid 1 shot mechanics that none (yes, none) can see coming by merely playing the game without mods and ultra detailed guides telling you what to do... and in occasion live.. (positioning addons, Weak Auras spotting, etc) Sorry, that is no WoW skill.. that is having nothing better to do with your time.

Try to play the raids with no prior info other than, maybe, reading (yes reading not watching) a guide. No addons or other information allowed.

Good luck, you will simply wipe for weeks and come back here in agreement. Well, on second thought, you might not, because your kind does not aknoledge, only attack behind their screen for no reason. Very damaged people...

So, what are the people that dont give a fuck and go straight in, wipe 2 times and figure it out cause they couldnt be bothered watching or reading about the fight cause its an 18 year old game and nothing is new?

You do realize, Normal raid as example doesnt do enough damage to kill a character of proper item level and you can take most abilities in the face right? And after that, HC is just 1-2 added mechanics + 30% damage on the original mechanics, which 90% of the time do not 1 shot also.

Stop finding excuses about being bad at irrelevant content and play better, the dude you quoted is right.

No one wipes for weeks in retardo-content, its the same reasoning with LFR, you go in with a 229 ilvl character with the greens from the vendor, abilities hit for like 8k when you have 25k HP, and somehow you have people with 260 ilvl and 60k HP dying, yes, its the addons and the game thats the problem.

[Biomega]

it is about being good at managing and setting up addons to be able to avoid 1 shot mechanics that none (yes, none) can see coming by merely playing the game without mods

That smells like a classic excuse.

Do mods make the game easier than it would be without mods? Yes.

Is it literally impossible to play the game without mods? No. (impairments not withstanding, there are some people for whom mods are literally the only way to play)

And let's be real here: 90% of the work is already done simply by installing ONE mod, i.e. a boss mod like DBM or BW. The rest is just fine-tuning according to preference, with the occasional cookie-cutter WA thrown in for some specific mechanic.

There's some bad apples like Lord of Dread, Fatescribe, etc. that have mechanics that really suck big time without a WA but by and large a boss mod really is pretty much all you need even if you want to kill mythic bosses.

Being able to customize your UI to further increase performance is a thing - but it's a good thing, not a bad thing.

Anyone who claims that "addons play the game for you" or "you don't need WoW skill anymore you just need addon skill" is someone who doesn't need to be in the discussion because they very clearly aren't doing the content where this matters in the first place. You don't like mods, don't use them; I promise you it's not mods that's holding you back from getting Cutting Edge.

[AleksaMaster]

It´s people like this individual who have brought an absurd level of toxicty over.

No, game is not fine, it is unnecesarily overcomplicated. It has nothing to do with skills. You have amazing players struggling, because it is not about being good at WoW anymore, it is about being good at managing and setting up addons to be able to avoid 1 shot mechanics that none (yes, none) can see coming by merely playing the game without mods and ultra detailed guides telling you what to do... and in occasion live.. (positioning addons, Weak Auras spotting, etc) Sorry, that is no WoW skill.. that is having nothing better to do with your time.

Try to play the raids with no prior info other than, maybe, reading (yes reading not watching) a guide. No addons or other information allowed.

Good luck, you will simply wipe for weeks and come back here in agreement. Well, on second thought, you might not, because your kind does not aknoledge, only attack behind their screen for no reason. Very damaged people...

The game is fine, there is content for everyone. Doing very high content is all about skill. Its just that bad people are crying all the time because they are not skilled and cant get into groups. Its called frustration. Nothing to do with addons. And you have that in all aspects of life, people crying becasue they are bad in something.

[Necromantic]

The game is fine, there is content for everyone. Doing very high content is all about skill. Its just that bad people are crying all the time because they are not skilled and cant get into groups. Its called frustration. Nothing to do with addons. And you have that in all aspects of life, people crying becasue they are bad in something.

This is very true. It's very alluring to be "top dog" and so many people want that. The world is filled with people who want prestige, rewards and acknowledgement by doing little to nothing. They freely want what others worked for. So they go into content they're not prepared for then complain that there are "real problems" not realize that the real problem is them.

[Djuntas]

why do i know youre lying? ^^ besides its not possible to wipe on normal mode unless you rly trying to and ignoree core mechanics all fight long such as rygalon big bang and jailor nockbacks

Why would I lie. Apparently just silly achivements makes such content hard.

[Echo of Soul]

You understand they want to kill the mythic bosses for bis loot though, right? So for some reason, many feel they are too good for lfr, but clearly not good enough for mythic, but they want the mythic loot.

Here here brother! Fuck em, if they don't want to form groups and do hard content they shouldn't get rewards PERIOD. The fact that they feel entitled to rewards is frankly sickening.

[deenman]

why do i know youre lying? ^^ besides its not possible to wipe on normal mode unless you rly trying to and ignoree core mechanics all fight long such as rygalon big bang and jailor nockbacks

Why would you think they are lying?you are grossly underestimating how bad a majority of wow players are,rember in mop where heroic dungeons were locked behind bronze or silver?? there were LEGIONS upon LEGIONS of players stuck there lol

[dragonflight10]

It´s people like this individual who have brought an absurd level of toxicty over.

No, game is not fine, it is unnecesarily overcomplicated. It has nothing to do with skills. You have amazing players struggling, because it is not about being good at WoW anymore, it is about being good at managing and setting up addons to be able to avoid 1 shot mechanics that none (yes, none) can see coming by merely playing the game without mods and ultra detailed guides telling you what to do... and in occasion live.. (positioning addons, Weak Auras spotting, etc) Sorry, that is no WoW skill.. that is having nothing better to do with your time.

Try to play the raids with no prior info other than, maybe, reading (yes reading not watching) a guide. No addons or other information allowed.

Good luck, you will simply wipe for weeks and come back here in agreement. Well, on second thought, you might not, because your kind does not aknoledge, only attack behind their screen for no reason. Very damaged people...

Why are you asking him that lol ? raid encounters are designed around people having addons man

[Necromantic]

Why would you think they are lying?you are grossly underestimating how bad a majority of wow players are,rember in mop where heroic dungeons were locked behind bronze or silver?? there were LEGIONS upon LEGIONS of players stuck there lol

People forget that there are far more bad players in any game than there are good players. It sounds condescending but it's just the truth.

Why are you asking him that lol ? raid encounters are designed around people having addons man

Source?

[Dalinos]

People forget that there are far more bad players in any game than there are good players. It sounds condescending but it's just the truth.



Source?

Wasn't there a blue post a couple of weeks ago that literally said :

1) We create mechanics
2) Players create addons to beat these mechanics
3) We create MORE mechanics
4) Players create MORE addons to beat these mechanics
5) List goes on until step 20
20) Player with no addons sees the fight and thinks "WTF is this?"

Also, I find it hilarious how you believe the type of job has anything to do with having a livable wage. It's all about what country you're in.

[KrayZ33]

Source?

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...day-interview/

(you can find your answer if they do *or not* in there)

basically, they don't design them with mods in mind from the ground up, but they look at what mods do and did and use it to enhance the fights.
So, I have no idea what that means exactly, but to me that sounds a lot like they actually *do* design them with mods in mind because they make their encounters more difficult.

Like... "Oh, this mod adds a telegraph to this AoE attack -> we will use the idea and make it more visible on the next boss we design -> now it's easier to see and clear -> now every boss has lots of AoE circles you have to dodge and bosses are more difficult than in the past as they require way more movement"

[Soikona]

No shit, Sherlock. I never implied it wasn't. But at some point buying a token becomes vastly more efficient (and wayyyyyy less boring) than "doing dailies" on 11 toons.

Then that is your problem. Boosting should not be a solution to your problem.

- - - Updated - - -

Cool. How about you tell me even one bad assumption I made and how it undermines my argument?



Still you miss the point. It does not matter whether there are possible alternatives for him to make the gold, or whether he actually needs that much. He has said that the removal tokens would be a motivation for him to resort to boosting in order to make gold. I don't even know how you can try and argue with someone about what they say they will do....

- - - Updated - - -



How about reading what I say and answering that?

You keep trying to win against an argument that no one is making. That's called strawmanning and it tells us that you lack a proper argument. So, again: It does not matter whether it is needed or not. He has said that he would rather spend money on a token than do the stuff in game that makes him gold. He has said he would rather boost other players for gold than do the stuff in game that makes him gold. And he has said that if the token is removed, he will start boosting. These are not things you can refute.

The argument is that tokens are not needed. Dailies do enough. It’s how I afford mythic raiding with weekly keys. Boosting is just not needed then, not to afford to raid and do keys at least. How is that a strawman? I don’t think you know the meaning of that word.

[Necromantic]

Wasn't there a blue post a couple of weeks ago that literally said :

1) We create mechanics
2) Players create addons to beat these mechanics
3) We create MORE mechanics
4) Players create MORE addons to beat these mechanics
5) List goes on until step 20
20) Player with no addons sees the fight and thinks "WTF is this?"

Don't know, I don't catch all blue posts.

Also, I find it hilarious how you believe the type of job has anything to do with having a livable wage. It's all about what country you're in.

Huh?

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...day-interview/

(you can find your answer if they do *or not* in there)

basically, they don't design them with mods in mind from the ground up, but they look at what mods do and did and use it to enhance the fights.
So, I have no idea what that means exactly, but to me that sounds a lot like they actually *do* design them with mods in mind because they make their encounters more difficult.

In my opinion, they shouldn't. Nobody should ever have to download 3rd party stuff in order to play a game, especially with the amount of malware out there and how many have been "confirmed" safe but were not. The game should come equipped with every tool you need. It will be up to you to figure out which tool is the right one for the right time.

[Dalinos]

Don't know, I don't catch all blue posts.



Huh?

Read your signature.