Ion Hazzikostas on Dragonflight Mythic+ Season 1 Itemization and Dungeon Pool

[kamuimac]

they already know that they f... this up somehow .

hillarius.

just remove loot from dungeon and put it on vendor - make dungeons just drop badges.

all problems solved. literaly all problems solved.

[Wonderment2]

Yes, you can. But who cares about that? How many times have you run Tazavesh before it was added into m+ pool. Most people did it once, or twice. Many didnt do it at all. M+ is the 5 man content now.

People have to stop using this donkey argument because it completley misses the point.

Dude was replying to someone to some one saying there was only going to be 4 dungeons at launch ffs.

[Rafalga]

Also, I don't get why people say "all 8 dungeons", when they should be saying "only 8 dungeons?". We should be having 10-12 on release, plus at least one to two (or a mega-) every patch.

Exactly my thoughts. Why are we suddenly barganing for 8 dungeons? When in reality they should launch with at least 10? This reads like a budget cut proposal.

[Magenugget]

Another discussion that doesn't affect 90% of the playerbase at all. Nobody except WoW forum dwellers cares about bis trinkets, what they care about is having more than one content patch per year.

[Crawor]

You all remember Oculus? Well get prepared!!

[Swiftray]

I'm Tank and as long as Mythic+ only rewards 2 Items and has the possibility to not reward my time for hours followed by a duplicate item -> won't play this expansion also.

[crusadernero]

I'm sold on the fact that M+ can really be improved by changing the pool each season - even for a less stale environment. Having new dungeons to try to master is surely more enjoyable and we have 17 years of ones they can take from (needs rework but can be done in small amounts over time).

Not sure if i want this for the first season. I mean, dungeons are all new so i don't think you need old revamped ones to "shake up the meta". Also i'm fine with a pool of 8, i don't think they're too few. Probably they evaluated the time needed for people to do the usual basic thresholds like KSM and have seen that more dungeons will only make the thing longer an less appealing, who knows.

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I think it's mostly due to the sensible wear-down of the M+ system during the course of the expansion. People and especially M+ enjoyers get bored about redoing the whole same dungeons all over for 2 years. Having the pool split in 2 means you can have different ones though the seasons.

I think that a setup like s1 = 8 new expack dungeons - s2 = first half + 4 old - s3 = second hal + 4 old would be just optimal both for players and devs that will have more time to change/adapt old dungeons to the M+ system.

Yeah, I can buy this premise. Though as you said, this might not be the best way to introduce it, already in S1 of the xpac. All dungeons will then be fresh & new. They could instead implement this in S2 and onwards. In each new xpac in the future it can be S1 with the new dungeons & S2,S3,S4(or how many) can be a mix between new and old.

So by the time we get bored of the new xpacs, they rotate half of them out and take them back again later. That would actually be cool.

The xpac is long way off so if they get feedback on this, they might change it up. Doesnt seem to complicated to do that. Its just in what order they want to have this in.

[csguba]

He is right, what is not right is he is trying to justify not having 8 dungeons at launch with gameplay reasons when it's obvious they are just planning on not having them ready at launch to save money.

Just like when they used blood elves and humans to create a new race instead of something new. I guess they have a low budget this time around. And that's fine, but they should be clear about it and not make up excuses.

I think it's more a way of them using this to help alleviate lack of content later and avoid having M+ becoming stale with the same pool. Sure it may help them move the work required along slightly perhaps but then again they are still creating old dungeons into m+ instead which is arguably even more work intensive. It also helps them with the trinket issue. As someone who has repeatedly farmed changeling this expansion I am sick of it. Repetitive and boring but too powerful to ignore.

[ellieg]

I'm cool with this. I understand the desire for all 8 new dungeons instantly but absolutely hate the suggestion ppl have of 8 new dungeons plus 4 old at the same time. Im not great and my playtime is pretty casual but I go out and get ksm.

9.0 required 8 different +15s timed. That was fun and not too hard. I skipped 9.1 and came back in 9.2 and almost back to ksm again. But now there are 10 dungeons, and split between tyr and Fort. So effectively 20 different +15s required. Big jump from 8 to now 20. The thought of increasing that to 24 by throwing in more dungeons to the rotation does not appeal to me at all.

[erifwodahs]

Another discussion that doesn't affect 90% of the playerbase at all. Nobody except WoW forum dwellers cares about bis trinkets, what they care about is having more than one content patch per year.

Yeah, let's look at those warlocks who play butterfly covenant, who cares about bis/min-max, right? What was that? over 80%?

[twothe]

Stratholme UD mythic+ when?

Live on Ascension.gg
The server where Blizzard gets most of it's ideas from nowadays. XD

[Twdft]

May i ask how many times have you run Legion M+? Do you completely skip on current M+ when TW is out? Because to me, it seems people did those a few times and went back to the current rotation. And if you think blizz will fine tune those old dungeons for current expac, think again.

IMO this is entirely a tuning issue. People got the same key level as their normal key, went into Legion M+ and realized those were at least 3 levels more difficult than SL dungeons. Legion 15s are probably as hard as SL 18s. So they got their ass handed to them on top of dungeons being unfamiliar in the first place and instead of going again +12 they just stopped doing Legion M+.

Personally I found it fun and did all at 15, counts for the vault and you get some r.io bragging since so few people did all 6 dungeons. But I had to pug my way through it, none of my friends wanted to do it again after seeing the difficulty spike the first time it was around.

[Tiwack]

I would rather see Cata dungeons then panda dungeons

That'd take more work on their part though as all the dungeons from MoP to now were designed with timers in mind already making them easy to adapt to M+.

- - - Updated - - -

To all the whiners here, M+ isn't your usual 5man content, rotating all the dungeons each season is a good thing and helps lower the bar to entry for newcomers and old returning players throughout the expansions. + helps keep M+ fresh for steady subs and participants.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

I think he hit on a pretty important factor there. Anybody who's run a decent amount of M+ knows that there's a shortage of tanks (and an even larger dearth of good tanks). Trying to get into tanking later in an expansion after multiple seasons worth of meta gaming have made the dungeon experience extremely streamlined and regimented can be a daunting task, leaving a feedback loop of players simply not wanting to try tanking. Keeping the dungeon pool fresh every season puts everybody on a level playing field and also has the knock-on effect of alleviating the "farm {x} trinket every season" meta which develops.

For the record, I'm not entirely sold on the idea just yet but I'm interested to see how it plays out.

They really need to avoid affixes like Prideful also. it was so unbelievably punitive to tanks in particular, since killing 1 wrong mob could tank a key if you didn't have pride for the boss etc.

[Kiwijello]

Ion is the cork in the creative bottle. SOOOO many better ideas that he won't let get by. His time needs to be up. We need fresh blood.

[Rainingblood]

Ion is the cork in the creative bottle. SOOOO many better ideas that he won't let get by. His time needs to be up. We need fresh blood.

Pretty much. Any expansion by Ion is no longer played by me or a sale. He says the same things every expansion in influencer fake hype interviews that only a sucker would believe. He makes the same mistakes every time. Some say he's incompetent but I think he gets bonuses based on MT's. By designing the game around failed esports (which is why we have assembly line dungeons for mythic plus) and creating the largest gear disparity ever seen in wow, you eventually only end up with two player bases. Mythic raiders/high level arena players which is his pals and echochamber who are kept happy and people who buy the token carries for gear from those players. No one else matters to Ion in design budget.

An Ion expansion will have
1) Creatively bankrupt dungeons that suck and that are designed around a checklist that he needs for his failed esport
2) PvP completely designed around an esport that failed a decade ago.
3) Mythic raiding designed around people that break the TOS on rl transactions repeatedly like Limit did and Method before them.
4) Boring, repetitive and pointless content for everyone else that rewards you with complete garbage. Buy tokens to progress if you are not a mythic raider or one of the 100 arena players/RGB players that completely control the bracket and RL sales (on their alt accounts) and token sales on their mains.

[Lodidop]

Just give us all new dungeons plus 4 old dungeons. Stop holding content just to make it look like season 2 is all brand new content.

Can't believe people are falling for that.

I came here to post this, glad other people pointed it out.
So instead of giving us 8 dungeons at launch and MORE dungeons in later patches, they've found a way to give us the same exact number of dungeons we'd normally get at launch but stretched between patches to give players an illusion of content steady flow.
It is fucking unbelievable how people can defend this.

[catalystical]

Just give us all new dungeons plus 4 old dungeons. Stop holding content just to make it look like season 2 is all brand new content.

Can't believe people are falling for that.

That’s the whole bleeping point. It’s not something people are falling for. It makes a whole lot of sense. You rotate your content for longevity. What’s the alternative? Only give all of us 4 dungeons now and lock the other 4, including norm/heroic even for a proper season 2? If it sounds stupid, it’s because it is.

Ya’ll are angry because you want everything nao. Then when the next patch comes we only get one fresh dungeon at best, if we even get a new dungeon. Then that proves the point Ion is making, everyone knows what to do, and the new guys get flamed for not knowing what to do. If you have a problem with that, then the only people you can blame is the toxic people and the toxicity that’s in M+. We are here today it’s an attempt to solve that toxicity problem.

[Dismayxz]

[QUOTE=Vakrath;53725214]I think it would be healthier for season 1 to just focus on the 8 new Dragonflight dungeons - give them their time to shine from the start of the latest expansion. From this they can measure which of the dungeons are played the most and least often by the players and they can use these metrics to create mixed pools of dungeons in season 2 onward, so that we dont end up in a situation where all 4 dungeons are the least played and players lose interest in playing the dragonflight dungeons for that season.

I think from their perspective and goals, the 4/4 split is really sound. There are far more obvious pitfalls than people's personal oppinions to the way they plan on doing things, given their cited reasoning. 1.) They want things to be fresh for everyone when Season 1 and then respectively Season 2 starts, how they plan on keeping it beyond that? No idea! In a vacuum with what we know, this system only achieves it's goal for two Seasons.

Then, there's the elephant in the room: PTR. Not everyone will ACTUALLY go in blind into the Season 1 Rotation, Routing, Mechanics yada yada, the latter you would probably even be able to just fuck around with and learn in M0, then replicate to M+ in it's own context.

Has me thinking this is quite honestly, like many other things with this announcement (Talents for example) built with the fact in mind, that there will be people min/maxing and cookie-cutting everything from the get-go, their main concern not being THOSE people, but the players that DONT neckbeard their way through every minute of the game.

[rrayy]

He is right, what is not right is he is trying to justify not having 8 dungeons at launch with gameplay reasons when it's obvious they are just planning on not having them ready at launch to save money.

Link proving this. AS it is, utterly false. All 8 dungeons will be ready at launch. Making things u does not make them facts.

Just like when they used blood elves and humans to create a new race instead of something new. I guess they have a low budget this time around. And that's fine, but they should be clear about it and not make up excuses.

Again, prove it. There is zero evidence of anything you claim.