(Leak?) Redshirt guy finds release date, main villain and allied race with preorder

[Chain Chungus]

I bet it will be Dark Rangers. A single AR but with different versions for each faction (Blood Elf and Night Elf derived). The Blood Elf ones are Sylvanas' guard left over after her exile. Tyrande will explain all the stuff about the jailer to the Night Elf Dark Rangers from BFA, and they will rejoin the fold on Alliance. They will all have variations on red eyes and undead skin tones, share the same racial abilities, and the only two classes they can play will be hunter and rogue.

[rhorle]

The devs said they want the expansion to be about high fantasy threats. Murozond is not himself a cosmic threat. As you said yourself, they could easily retcon his origins to not be due to Old God influence of they want to absolutely steer away from it. And even if they lean heavily on Old God influences, it wouldn't change the focus of the expansion to being about Old Gods at all.

If they have to retcon his origins then that implies he would be a cosmic threat if they don't, right?

Many of the community is taking all of the talk of steering away from cosmic stuff to be nothing cosmic in the story. In your continual usage of High Fantasy means no cosmic stuff. So it is strange that even you yourself is misinterpreting the intent of Blizzard, right?

[Forum Man]

Anyone who thinks there's no cosmic threats in Dragonflight would just be misinterpreting their intent, really. Blizzard didn't say they are excluding them at all.

The devs said they want the expansion to be about high fantasy threats. Murozond is not himself a cosmic threat. As you said yourself, they could easily retcon his origins to not be due to Old God influence of they want to absolutely steer away from it. And even if they lean heavily on Old God influences, it wouldn't change the focus of the expansion to being about Old Gods at all.

i think the players are a bit too harsh in the whole "they said grounded expansion thus no cosmic threat influence" ignoring the fact
every
single
expansion
end boss
had cosmic influence

[Triceron]

If they have to retcon his origins then that implies he would be a cosmic threat if they don't, right?

Many of the community is taking all of the talk of steering away from cosmic stuff to be nothing cosmic in the story. In your continual usage of High Fantasy means no cosmic stuff. So it is strange that even you yourself is misinterpreting the intent of Blizzard, right?

So first, I'll clarify my own point of view.

I'm humoring your terminology in regarding the Old Gods as a cosmic threat, for the sake of argument. So far, I've been making a point to say that regardless of whether the Old Gods are the source of the chaos and madness amongst the mortal races, I don't think Blizzard recognizing their shenanigans as a 'Cosmic threat'. The way they described the Cosmic forces in comparison to High Fantasy makes it clear (to me) that they are reigning in expectations that Dragonflight would directly explore Cosmic themes that were set up at the end of Shadowlands. So they explain right off the cuff that this is not the case, and their intent is to focus on localized threats on the Dragon Isles, and build up the conflicts and reputations with the Centaurs, Djaradin, Gnolls and the like for this expansion. And they said they do not intend to reveal the big evil villains just yet, as they did with previous expansions like knowing all about Zovaal at the beginning of Shadowlands. They said as weeks go by, we will get an idea of who the villains are in Dragon Isles.

That being said, I personally do not think Old Gods are cosmic threats. I don't consider Old God servants or agents to be cosmic threats either. These have always been rooted on Azeroth as being very localized threats, even if they aren't native to Azeroth. Because let's face it, the Orcs and Draenei aren't from Azeroth either, and I don't consider them cosmic threats on the basis of a technicality. Twilights Hammer, Azshara, Satyrs, and any group related to the Legion or Old Gods are still considered localized threats. I don't consider any of these to be cosmic threats just because they tap into ancient powers.

I think what the Devs are talking about is simply reigning in expectations that they set very high with Zovaal talking about uniting the Cosmic forces against some greater villain. In this context, we are talking about Dragon Isles specifically not exploring the Cosmic forces that we know about; that being of Order, Chaos, Life, Death, Light or Void.

Murozond would merely be an extension of a threat that is localized on Azeroth. Nozdormu was not always corrupted by the Old Gods. We don't know when he gets corrupted. There's always the possibility that we face a 10.3 Nozdormu that isn't corrupted by Old Gods, yet still driven by great ambitions, and after his defeat he would then seek empowerment by the Old Gods at some later point in the future. This is what I mean Murozond could be a *connection* to Cosmic threats, without him actually *being* one. And even if they DO involve Old God shenanigans in 10.3 Nozdormu/Murozond raid, I wouldn't consider that negating the rest of their mission statement to have 10.0 be focused on non-cosmic forces content, because they are literally talking about the expansion as it will be released, not the full 10.0-10.3 content before we even know about it. Whether there will be a cosmic threat by 10.3 or not is well beyond what they would ever tell us.

And I disagree with you saying High Fantasy means no cosmic stuff. Blizzard says they aren't focusing on the Cosmic Forces. That is different from excluding all Cosmic related themes or threats. If they make the direct comparison to Mists of Pandaria, which you admit featured Cosmic threats as an underlying part of its entire theme, then I think they aren't talking about removing all cosmic-related threats from the equation. They merely want Dragon Isles to start with us exploring the regular races before we identify the greater enemies, and from there anything is game. Just like we had with most other expansions like Wrath, Mists of Pandaria and so forth. Because you know what is also High Fantasy? Wrath and Mists of Pandaria.

[rhorle]

I'm sorry, but I don' quite understand what you're saying, then. It seems like everything you're saying supports the idea of using Murozond, save for that I think you may be correct that using him to introduce a higher-concept entity is somewhat of a misunderstanding of the character.

I am saying that Murozond himself would be a higher concept entity based on your definitions. Empowered by the Titans. Become infinite from some yet as undefined reason. Travels the timeways causing havoc. Influenced by and supports the Old Gods to remake reality. Any story around him would be high concept by default because of who he is.

Could we have a black morass type of thing? Sure that would seem to fit your low concept definition. But is that really interesting or what would likely happen with such a high profile character? That doesn't explore or further his story. You could just have any infinite dragon show up to do that. Or introduce a new leader like almost happened in MoP/WoD.

Even Blizzard in their interviews/info have been struggling with high/low concept definition where it really just brings the phrase down to buzz word level meaning. Because people keep taking it to me little to no cosmic when it is really about direct or indirect stories. Even you yourself is defining High concept as "science fiction" which isn't really acurrate either because it isn't about going to a different genre.

[Varitok]

Sorry, but we're on a planet composed mostly of Elves, Humans, and Trolls as the majority races.

Its a video game.

[Le Conceptuel]

I am saying that Murozond himself would be a higher concept entity based on your definitions. Empowered by the Titans. Become infinite from some yet as undefined reason. Travels the timeways causing havoc. Influenced by and supports the Old Gods to remake reality. Any story around him would be high concept by default because of who he is.

Could we have a black morass type of thing? Sure that would seem to fit your low concept definition. But is that really interesting or what would likely happen with such a high profile character? That doesn't explore or further his story. You could just have any infinite dragon show up to do that. Or introduce a new leader like almost happened in MoP/WoD.

Even Blizzard in their interviews/info have been struggling with high/low concept definition where it really just brings the phrase down to buzz word level meaning. Because people keep taking it to me little to no cosmic when it is really about direct or indirect stories. Even you yourself is defining High concept as "science fiction" which isn't really acurrate either because it isn't about going to a different genre.

You seem to wholly misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying that's a bad decision at all. I'm suggesting that it's an adequate degree of high-concept that would not disrupt the environment and would be wholly reasonable. Your argument is that "high/low concept" is a buzzword, which isn't wholly incorrect, but I've already laid out my opinions on that in another post which I think adequately defines it from my perspective.

You seem to be attributing opinions to me that I've never really stated, or misunderstanding them. This whole conversation has been a tad meandering and I don't think either of us is reading properly into what the other is saying.

As for what can be responded to, I'm not strictly suggesting that I want to limit Murozond to a specific event as his focal point, nor do I want to waste him on one particular scheme of his. I do think that it would be useful to save him for something suitable to him as a character, but I also don't see much harm that could come from his presence in Dragon Isles, either.

I can't quite tell what your objective is, since you've said a few contradictory things or sometimes are operating on a wholly different wavelength. Is your primary intention to oppose the idea of Murozond appearing in Dragon Isles because you believe he'd be better suited to something else more suitable to his character, or is it that the high/low concept dichotomy is false? I can't really extrapolate your meaning.

[rhorle]

Murozond would merely be an extension of a threat that is localized on Azeroth.

Except he was doing the same thing as the Jailer. Trying to prepare for some cosmic threat. Which means any thing that involves him turning into Murozond would have to be related to that threat he was preparing for, right? Thus Cosmic focused.

Yet you'll still disagree. You keep mixing around terms to mean whatever fits your point rather then being consistent. Just like you saying its humoring to call Old Gods a cosmic threat when they literally got yeeted out into the cosmos to crash onto planets in the hopes of corrupting a world soul.

The dragons will have to reflect on what it means to be tethered to these cosmic forces and the Titan's order magic. Should they renew these bonds or find a different way forward?

That is from an interview and it makes quite clear that Blizzard thinks Dragons are tied to cosmic forces. So the Old Gods would be as well since they are a level above the Dragon Aspects and not even native to Azeroth like the Dragons sort of are. I say sort of since they were transformed from proto-drakes. The Old Gods are not even unique to Azeroth and we've seen one trying to be summoned into Outlands.

Your weird view seems to stem from forcing things "On Azeroth" to not be cosmic. Even though they are and that has never been how Blizzard has been using "cosmic". The only expansion that hasn't focused on cosmic forces is Wrath though even that is "on the line" because of the origins of the scourge and Lich King. At that point they broke free so they would be ex-cosmic.

The rest of the expansions have all focused on a cosmic threat trying to destroy Azeroth. So if all of the expansions were not High Fantasy then you are saying cosmic forces are excluded from High Fantasy. If all expansions are still High Fantasy because cosmic stuff can be included in that there is nothing that needs to be returned to. Again you don't seem to be using the term correctly or with any consistency.

[exochaft]

i think the players are a bit too harsh in the whole "they said grounded expansion thus no cosmic threat influence" ignoring the fact
every
single
expansion
end boss
had cosmic influence

I think this is a case of players kind of knowing where the issue is, but not being able to refine the point. A better way to describe the situation is that players likely don't want cosmic threats that just seemingly appear out of nowhere with no buildup.

I think the Shadowlands story could've been widely accepted and liked by players... if it took 2-3 expansions to tell the story. It's fairly obvious that Blizz has been rushing the story (as for the reasons, there are many), and that side effect is that a story like Shadowlands feels like you get a megagod just pop up out of nowhere who suddenly declares he's behind everything ever in the story, with plot holes and contrivances gluing the narrative together. Players may not be able to point a finger at the specific reason why they feel it's awful storytelling, but they still recognize it's bad. It's akin to the adage of not needing to be a chef to know when your meal taste bad.

To go to the other side of things, this is also why players are generally fine with Old Gods popping up... because they've been established and expanded upon across multiple expansions for years. We know they're a lingering threat that still has to be dealt with, which makes their appearance not a jarring experience like Zovaal and his master plot was.

[rhorle]

I can't quite tell what your objective is, since you've said a few contradictory things or sometimes are operating on a wholly different wavelength. Is your primary intention to oppose the idea of Murozond appearing in Dragon Isles because you believe he'd be better suited to something else more suitable to his character, or is it that the high/low concept dichotomy is false? I can't really extrapolate your meaning. .

That is probably because you don't have an objective yourself and keep rambling about different things. From the begining I've said that Murozond doesn't fit their goal of focusing less on cosmic forces because he himself is linked to multiple cosmic forces as his core. From being a titan creation, to influenced by old gods, to protecting from a threat more powerful then the Old Gods. The Dragons themselves were created to prevent the Hour of Twilight according to lore.

Even the premise of Dragons doesn't really fit their narrative of focusing less on the cosmic forces because of how linked they are to the Titans a cosmic force. It isn't the fault of Blizzard though because look at how many people keep using terms differently. You calling science fiction focused high concept and non-science fiction focused low concept. Or people using High Fantasy. Blizzard has been a little wish washy as well.

It seems though that it has never been about cosmic or not cosmic. Just entirely about the story starting off slow. Unlike Legion or Shadowlands where the threat was quickly at the front of the story. Since they are talking a matter of weeks to find things out we should know the main threat by the time we hit level cap and see the story of the zones.

[Gehco]

Its a video game.

Eh.. Misquoting someone or not reading the thread in general? Gotta be one of the two to make that comment fit as a reply to mine.

[Triceron]

Except he was doing the same thing as the Jailer. Trying to prepare for some cosmic threat.

Where are you getting this from exactly?

From what we know in Cata, he went mad from the knowledge of his own death, and corrupted by the Old Gods sometime after.

Nozdormu in Dragonflight is still contemplating this very event happening. He is not preparing for any future cosmic threat in the vein of the Jailer. He is not uniting cosmic forces or even changing the past for the betterment of anything, he was driven by the Old Gods to destroy the one true timeline and lead it towards the End Time.

I don't see any of this being particularly cosmic related because we can still fight Murozond as he existed before any End Time/Old God shenanigans.

Yet you'll still disagree. You keep mixing around terms to mean whatever fits your point rather then being consistent. Just like you saying its humoring to call Old Gods a cosmic threat when they literally got yeeted out into the cosmos to crash onto planets in the hopes of corrupting a world soul.

Because the Devs themselves have not explicitly made that connection in their description of Cosmic Forces and High Fantasy.

You made the assumption and presented it as fact. Why would I suddenly agree with your assumptions when I have explicitly pointed out the inconsistencies to the Devs literally comparing High Fantasy situations to MoP, which already featured Old God shenanigans?

As I said, I don't agree with your interpretation. Your interpretation is not going to make the Dev statements any less ambiguous.

Your weird view seems to stem from forcing things "On Azeroth" to not be cosmic. Even though they are and that has never been how Blizzard has been using "cosmic". The only expansion that hasn't focused on cosmic forces is Wrath though even that is "on the line" because of the origins of the scourge and Lich King. At that point they broke free so they would be ex-cosmic.

The devs haven't explicitly outlined what 'High Fantasy' means either, but as I said and what we seem to agree on is that Wrath and MoP (by dev comparison) are both examples of High Fantasy that they want to get back to. And if both these expansions featured Old God shenanigans, then in some way they tolerate it in some form as long as the focus of the expansion stays on the mortal threats during world exploration and questing.

Anything after that is again, up to interpretation. Cuz let's face it - EVERY expansion has some measure of Old God shenanigans or cosmic threats of some level. You can't actually point at any version or expansion of WoW that doesn't either have Old Gods or some external threat to WoW.

This is like if they said they don't want to focus on magic and want to focus on technology instead, and you take that as meaning the next expansion will have zero magic themes in it at all. I think the interpretation is overblown.

Besides, let me flip the script - what do you think the 10.3 villain could be for a 'High Fantasy' concept that's all about gnolls centaurs and djaradin? Do you think it would remain localized threats throughout the entire expansion and merely have 10.1 Gnoll Raid 10.2 Centaur Raid 10.3 Djaradin raid?

Any of the three major villains I originally pointed out could easily, in your own terminology, be considered cosmic level threats. Galakrond, reborn with some sort of massive power like Death magic, could be cosmic level threat. Chromatus, unlikable experiment of Nefarian, is an Old God servant. I personally don't see these being outside of the High Fantasy definitions, even with connections to old gods or indirect cosmic powers.

[matheney2k]

Towellie also said 10.0 was going to be 'very, very different' and it turned out to be completely wrong, so no, he doesn't eat lunch with them.

I remember him saying this too and thought he talked to devs regularly, but dragonflight seems more of the same stuff more or less, nothing ''very, very different'' like he was saying months ago.

What a boob.

[rhorle]

Besides, let me flip the script - what do you think the 10.3 villain could be for a 'High Fantasy' concept that's all about gnolls centaurs and djaradin? Do you think it would remain localized threats throughout the entire expansion and merely have 10.1 Gnoll Raid 10.2 Centaur Raid 10.3 Djaradin raid?

See. this is the problem. Despite multiple times saying that High Fantasy doesn't exclude cosmic stuff you keep trying to say that High Fantasy can only include non-cosmic stuff. Hence why Murozond doesn't fit. The Devs have explicitly made a connection to the Titans being cosmic level and the Dragons by extension. That means that Old Gods are cosmic level even with a quote from the Devs stating as much.

So again High Fantasy can include cosmic level as you yourself keep stating. Yet here again you keep trying to push High Fantasy without cosmic threats. Strange right?

[Triceron]

See. this is the problem. Despite multiple times saying that High Fantasy doesn't exclude cosmic stuff you keep trying to say that High Fantasy can only include non-cosmic stuff.

My POV = High Fantasy means a focus on lesser races, with a build up to bigger villains. And bigger villains can be empowered by Old Gods without being considered a 'Cosmic Force' which is what the devs were specifically avoiding. So for example, Garrosh powered by Y'shaarj is not a 'Cosmic Force'. Garrosh is not representing the cosmic force of 'Shadow', the Devs have clearly stated that he was in full control of the powers regardless of how corrupting those powers may be.

And at no point did I say High Fantasy can only include non-cosmic stuff.

Hence why Murozond doesn't fit. The Devs have explicitly made a connection to the Titans being cosmic level and the Dragons by extension. That means that Old Gods are cosmic level even with a quote from the Devs stating as much.

Devs did not state this at all, and you are twisting words to fit your interpretation.
Find me in any recent interview where they specifically say they are avoiding any and all Old God content because they consider it cosmic-related. You wouldn't be able to, because you're abridging your interpretation of what you regard Old Gods are to what the Dev's are saying when they mentioned Cosmic Forces.

Said it many times, will say it again - I do not agree with your interpretation.

So again High Fantasy can include cosmic level as you yourself keep stating. Yet here again you keep trying to push High Fantasy without cosmic threats. Strange right?

Because 'Cosmic threat' is a term that you came up with.

No interview actually mentions cosmic threat. Hazzikostas specifically mentions Cosmic Forces, which pertains to the realms of Order, Death, Life, Chaos, Light and Shadow/Void. We are talking about Dragonflight not focusing on exploring these realms and themes. This is to address the ending of Shadowlands, which implied that the Cosmic Forces need to be united against a greater threat.

You personally took this and saw it as meaning there are going to be no 'Cosmic Threats' in Dragonflight at all, and took that to imply Old Gods would not have any place in this expansion. And while this could be true (since we don't know who the villains actually are yet), it's not what the Devs explicitly stated as their intent.

- They have not made any direct links to the Old Gods being referred to as 'Cosmic Forces'
- They acknowledge that Dragons and Titan Watchers are cosmically connected, and still regard them as a part of the High Fantasy mission statement
- They acknowledge MoP as an example of smaller scale encounters. MoP races had direct connections to Old Gods.
- It is reasonable to assume that the Dev's explanation of High Fantasy does not exclude the Old Gods or any Cosmic-related threats.

It all comes down to one thing - the fact you pulled 'Cosmic threat' out of 'Cosmic forces', and made an entire argument around it.

All the Devs said is that they will focus on the flora and fauna of the Dragon Isles. Big fat period.

Anything beyond that is pure speculation. Are the Devs saying there is a zero tolerance stance on any Cosmic-level threats? No, they are not. They simply are saying they want to focus on the high fantasy aspects of exploring the Dragon Isles, like we used to do in previous expansions. This is merely a mission statement for what the focus will be for this particular expansion. It is not an intent to exclude all cosmic-related threats from future raids or material.

My reasoning to present examples of Murozond representing a non-cosmic threat is merely to reach common ground with you. It was my point to say Blizzard doesn't have to involve Old God shenanigans to tell Murozond's origin story, because the version we see by Cataclysm is one that was already corrupted by the Old Gods. If we look at Azshara as a similar template, she was a powerful Sorceress who was linked to the Legion well before she became the octopus-looking Old God Naga creature we know of today. There's a point in time where we could explore the same turn for Nozdormu into Murozond, before the Old Gods take root. Or, if Blizzard wants to write it, how he's already affected by them and how we deal with that lingering corruption considering we have Wrathion with us who has the knowledge to cleanse Old God corruption. We haven't explored the origin of Murozond, so it's completely wide open for Blizzard to explore, if they choose to.

If you don't wish me to reach common ground, I could just as easily dismiss your interpretation as complete bullshit if that's what you prefer, because it doesn't change my opinion either way. At the end of the day, I disagree with your interpretation that the devs stated they are excluding any-and-all Old God related threats.

[rhorle]

My POV = High Fantasy means a focus on lesser races, with a build up to bigger villains. And bigger villains can be empowered by Old Gods without being considered a 'Cosmic Force' which is what the devs were specifically avoiding. So for example, Garrosh powered by Y'shaarj is not a 'Cosmic Force'.

Blizzard has already stated that they think Dragons are linked to a cosmic force. So Old Gods are linked to a cosmic force as well so your viewpoint doesn't actually align with what the Devs consider and have stated. They are also not focusing on lesser races. Gnolls are not the bad guys of the expansion but the zone filler. They might not be friendly but that doesn't mean they have a large focus.

The focus is on the Primalists and Cult of Galakrond. The Primalists are proto-drakes who were infused with elemental energy instead of order energy like the Dragons. So once again your view of High Fantasy does not apply to what Blizzard has stated their intentions are with the expansion.

https://warcraftradio.com/for-azerot...-dragonflight/And there’s definitely connections to multiple cosmic forces there and what we’ll see as we come back to the dragon isles again after so much time has passed. One of the things that the dragons will need to reflect on is what does it mean to be tethered to those powers, Is that a good thing? Or are there downsides to that as well? And should we renew those bonds or should we find a different way forward? But because of all the perils and the dangers that the dragon’s face when they’re coming home, in Alexstraza’s mind, a driving a goal is for the Aspects to regain their power, that force that they gave up in order to defeat Deathwing; how can they re-empower themselves and become protectors, not only of the dragon isles but of the world as well? And so that becomes a key part of the story that will be explored through the level up campaign.

Find me in any recent interview where they specifically say they are avoiding any and all Old God content because they consider it cosmic-related.

That isn't what I said. It is funny how you continually move the goal posts. What I said is Blizzard considers Old Gods to be cosmic-level stuff. And not that they said there won't be Old Gods because of them being cosmic-level. This is again you trying to push that High Fantasy means cosmic stuff isn't included while at the same time saying that they never said they would avoid cosmic-stuff. You can't have it both ways.

If you don't wish me to reach common ground, I could just as easily dismiss your interpretation as complete bullshit if that's what you prefer, because it doesn't change my opinion either way.

If I don't let you have your way you'll just dismiss me? That is what you've been doing from the start because you keep contradicting yourself.

[Triceron]

That isn't what I said. It is funny how you continually move the goal posts. What I said is Blizzard considers Old Gods to be cosmic-level stuff. And not that they said there won't be Old Gods because of them being cosmic-level. This is again you trying to push that High Fantasy means cosmic stuff isn't included while at the same time saying that they never said they would avoid cosmic-stuff. You can't have it both ways.

Except I'm not pushing High Fantasy = Cosmic not included. I'm not even sure why you think this.

I said from the start that Murozond could be explored in this expansion, and you equated Murozond as being a 'Cosmic threat' that is against what the Devs stated. That's pretty much how this all started.

Anything further is just my explanation of how Murozond can still be explored despite what the Devs have stated about High Fantasy or Cosmic Forces. They're not mutually exclusive.

The focus is on the Primalists and Cult of Galakrond.

Which doesn't exclude having Murozond's origins explored later in the expansion, as a potential greater villain.

If I don't let you have your way you'll just dismiss me? That is what you've been doing from the start because you keep contradicting yourself.

I mean what is your point?

The problem with Murozond is that it becomes Old God related and sort of ruins the theme of the expansion not being about "Cosmic" stuff.

You disagreed with me when I brought up Murozond. I disagreed with your above statement, and have been blatant about Murozond and Old Gods not conflicting with the Dev's intents on 'not being cosmic'. If we're both in disagreement, and no one is making attempts to reach common ground, then there's nothing really left to discuss.

[rhorle]

Except I'm not pushing High Fantasy = Cosmic not included. I'm not even sure why you think this.

Because you keep pushing that "Gnolls, Centaur, and Djardin" as the things that High Fantasy is about. You purposefully keep implying that High Fantasy doesn't include cosmic stuff.

Which doesn't exclude having Murozond's origins explored later in the expansion, as a potential greater villain.

His origins involve cosmic threats. So focus on his story and how he becomes Murozond would conflict with the "Dev's intents on 'not being cosmic'."

[Cheezits]

I bet it will be Dark Rangers. A single AR but with different versions for each faction (Blood Elf and Night Elf derived). The Blood Elf ones are Sylvanas' guard left over after her exile. Tyrande will explain all the stuff about the jailer to the Night Elf Dark Rangers from BFA, and they will rejoin the fold on Alliance. They will all have variations on red eyes and undead skin tones, share the same racial abilities, and the only two classes they can play will be hunter and rogue.

They will have more classes for sure, as the Darkfallen term has been expanded on to include the San'layn among others.

Similar to how LFD is definitely the Paladin and Priest race but can be other classes if they wish.

[ChairmanKaga]

The problem with Murozond is that it becomes Old God related and sort of ruins the theme of the expansion not being about "Cosmic" stuff. Sure Old Gods have been present in basic WoW stuff but they are still technically cosmic

I mean that ship has sailed if the Old Gods on Azeroth are "cosmic" then anything Titan would likewise count even it's just watchers and facilities that Dragonflight most definitely will have.
That said I think what players might mean in general with phrase "cosmic" is huge scaled things rather than localized ones. Ulduar while dealing with Old Gods and Titans elements wasn't the same scale of threat as Zereth Mortis and the Jailer for example.