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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Dark Rangers are primarily represented by Darkfallen.

    I don't think you can have a proper Dark Ranger without them being playable.

    Same if we talk about a Sea Witch class in the game, it's not happening without having Naga playable.
    Blood elves, Night elves and Humans with grey skin and red eyes granted to them by class customization like Death Knights?

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Blood elves, Night elves and Humans with grey skin and red eyes granted to them by class customization like Death Knights?
    Which we may be getting for Hunters in an undisclosed point in the future, in some fashion

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Sylvanas was their ez link pretty much lorewise.
    Eh. Sylvanas should have never joined the Horde either. They fucked the lore up on that one. She hated the Orcs for killing her younger brother, who she was very close to. They either ignored or forgot about that when they had her join the Horde in Vanilla, and even the Sylvanas novel now covers that in an awkward way that makes little sense. It's like they just retcon it to her begrudgingly joining the Horde for the sake of her people even though it makes no damned sense when she was fully capable of dealing with external threats without permanent servitude to any faction. Servitude would have been completely out of character for her, and they made her join the Horde out of necessity of having only 2 playable factions and having to choose one to lump her and the Forsaken into.

    Same goes for Night Elves, who could have remained independent without joining the Alliance as their own faction no problem. These were gameplay driven reasons more than actual lore driven.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Which we may be getting for Hunters in an undisclosed point in the future, in some fashion

    - - - Updated - - -



    Eh. Sylvanas should have never joined the Horde either. They fucked the lore up on that one. She hated the Orcs for killing her younger brother, who she was very close to. They either ignored or forgot about that when they had her join the Horde in Vanilla, and even the Sylvanas novel now covers that in an awkward way that makes little sense. It's like they just retcon it to her begrudgingly joining the Horde for the sake of her people even though it makes no damned sense when she was fully capable of dealing with external threats without permanent servitude to any faction. Servitude would have been completely out of character for her, and they made her join the Horde out of necessity of having only 2 playable factions and having to choose one to lump her and the Forsaken into.

    Same goes for Night Elves, who could have remained independent without joining the Alliance as their own faction no problem. These were gameplay driven reasons more than actual lore driven.
    Uh, idk man. Like I said its so long ago. Sylvanas and her group were outcasts like the rest of the horde.. it was the only faction that made sense putting the forsaken in I guess. Night elves could have been in the horde as well. But honestly what does it matter at this point?

    Lets get back to topic.

    Now that darkfallen are their own thing, I am curious were this will take them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Blood elves, Night elves and Humans with grey skin and red eyes granted to them by class customization like Death Knights?
    Its in the book darkfallen are their own thing. They are no death knights.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Anyone have any guesses what their racials will be?
    "Gnomebliteration: Teleport to the nearest gnome player, stunning them for 5 seconds. During this time, you drain their blood, applying a rapid damage-over-time effect that results in their death by the end of the duration."

    (In reference to the San'layn quest in Vol'dun where Blood Prince Dreven does exactly this with the gnome quest dude)

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Prenderghast View Post
    "Gnomebliteration: Teleport to the nearest gnome player, stunning them for 5 seconds. During this time, you drain their blood, applying a rapid damage-over-time effect that results in their death by the end of the duration."

    (In reference to the San'layn quest in Vol'dun where Blood Prince Dreven does exactly this with the gnome quest dude)


    For those who don't play Alliance and never saw any of the Darkfallen stuff in BfA

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Which we may be getting for Hunters in an undisclosed point in the future, in some fashion
    That's like giving Paladins the Death Knight customization options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Its in the book darkfallen are their own thing. They are no death knights.
    I know that.
    But, you immediately jump on the race wagon. They could be a faction, like the Knights of the Ebon Blade or the Illidari.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    That's like giving Paladins the Death Knight customization options.
    If they never implemented Death Knights and added a Necromancer class instead, maybe that could have been a possibility. Would have been an interesting class skin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Matticus777 View Post
    Night Elves

    Blood Elves

    Nightborne

    Void Elves

    Drac'thyr Male Elves

    Darkfallen

    Please, no more Elves ffs
    I have my fingers crossed for Sperm Elves and Hammerhead Elves.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If they never implemented Death Knights and added a Necromancer class instead, maybe that could have been a possibility. Would have been an interesting class skin.
    *stares in confusion*

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Sylvanas was their ez link pretty much lorewise. On top of that what ever we have to believe of it, with the whole pretty race stuff we were told.

    The rest is true, but its so long ago Its just what it is at this point. That being said, I hella curious if all this * evidence* is really going to give us Darkfallen.

    Darkfallen now being the race of dark rangers and san layn , I hope they give them some vampiric features if possible.

    We have to wait and see, but this part of 9.2.5 intrigues me.
    I'm still suspicious toward Holinka's intention to make all old classes be open to all races, but I think the only one that's a stretch is Shaman.

    Darkfallen Paladins : Blood Knights, only more blood, less knight
    Darkfallen Druids : We have Revendreth as a Druid biome, that seems obvious. They have their own vampiric animals & plants. Perhaps a stoneborne moonkin form?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Then, why are dead, red eyed elves a race? It's literally a customization that comes with the class.
    Unless we're talking vampires.
    Then why are Blood elves who sucked on a void titty a race? Why are humans who got fat a race?

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Then why are Blood elves who sucked on a void titty a race? Why are humans who got fat a race?
    Dark elves.
    Different body-sized Human models existed in Vanilla.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I'm still suspicious toward Holinka's intention to make all old classes be open to all races, but I think the only one that's a stretch is Shaman.

    Darkfallen Paladins : Blood Knights, only more blood, less knight
    Darkfallen Druids : We have Revendreth as a Druid biome, that seems obvious. They have their own vampiric animals & plants. Perhaps a stoneborne moonkin form?

    - - - Updated - - -


    Then why are Blood elves who sucked on a void titty a race? Why are humans who got fat a race?
    Because they couldn't give regular high elves to the Alliance because Blood Elves would throw a fit, so they made something up when they decided Nightborne were going to be Horde.

    Why are we doing two Forsaken races is just as valid of a question. Why do Blood Elves get to have now 4 race slots?

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    That's like giving Paladins the Death Knight customization options.



    I know that.
    But, you immediately jump on the race wagon. They could be a faction, like the Knights of the Ebon Blade or the Illidari.
    Darkfallen is the race and san layn is an organisation of them. If they become playable, then sure they would be a faction. Either being just called darkfallen or san layn.

    Idk what else you mean.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I'm still suspicious toward Holinka's intention to make all old classes be open to all races, but I think the only one that's a stretch is Shaman.

    Darkfallen Paladins : Blood Knights, only more blood, less knight
    Darkfallen Druids : We have Revendreth as a Druid biome, that seems obvious. They have their own vampiric animals & plants. Perhaps a stoneborne moonkin form?

    - - - Updated - - -


    Then why are Blood elves who sucked on a void titty a race? Why are humans who got fat a race?
    Yea.. little overboard at this point. You name 2 classes who have differnt art needed as the interview stated.

    I think with darkfallen we have to look at obvious and practical classes. Druid and pala like you said all sounds wonderfull, but likely not something will happen imo.

    I will be shocked honestly if they bothred with all new art needed for those.

    Altho blood knight sounds like it could fit.. its sadly just in the name and doesnt stand for blood like vampires. Doesnt seem very fitting, this is like giving undead the paladin class. They already told us, they are not quite there yet. So classes that feel better are classes like mage, priest, rogue, hunter and war.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If they never implemented Death Knights and added a Necromancer class instead, maybe that could have been a possibility. Would have been an interesting class skin.
    What do you mean?
    Last edited by Alanar; 2022-04-30 at 09:43 AM.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    What do you mean?
    I mean if they never made a Death Knight class, they could always have made it a class skin or customization option.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Darkfallen is the race and san layn is an organisation of them. If they become playable, then sure they would be a faction. Either being just called darkfallen or san layn.

    Idk what else you mean.
    How is San'layn an organization?

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I mean if they never made a Death Knight class, they could always have made it a class skin or customization option.
    Do you really belive that?

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Yea.. little overboard at this point. You name 2 classes who have differnt art needed as the interview stated.

    I think with darkfallen we have to look at obvious and practical classes. Druid and pala like you said all sounds wonderfull, but likely not something will happen imo.

    What do you mean?
    It sounds like you need to listen to the full interview. I said it was a long shot before 10.0 but Holinka said the ultimate goal was to have all the pre-Evoker classes be avaliable to all pre-drakthyr races. And, as he also said, Druid, Shaman & Paladin are harder to make playable because they use race-specific assets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwert View Post
    Why are we doing two Forsaken races is just as valid of a question. Why do Blood Elves get to have now 4 race slots?
    Because Undead Night Elves were really cool and Blood elves were the most popular race by a huge margin, if I had to guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    How is San'layn an organization?
    They were enough of an organization to petition inclusion into the Horde during BFA
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-05-01 at 05:30 AM.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Do you really belive that?
    That they could have made it a customization? Sure. Why not?

    Warriors in Vanilla were practically geared to look like DK's with Naxx gear. Tier 3 armor and Slayer of the Lifeless made you look very similar to a DK, and that was before any real ability customizations were added to the game. If they added a Legendary that granted abilities like Death Coil and Army of the Dead, you'd get very close to customizing a DK.



    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-05-01 at 08:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    They were enough of an organization to petition inclusion into the Horde during BFA
    That's not an organization.
    That's a race.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    That they could have made it a customization? Sure. Why not?

    Warriors in Vanilla were practically geared to look like DK's with Naxx gear. Tier 3 armor and Slayer of the Lifeless made you look very similar to a DK, and that was before any real ability customizations were added to the game. If they added a Legendary that granted abilities like Death Coil and Army of the Dead, you'd get very close to customizing a DK.



    I know that.
    But, that would be teasing players till their balls get blue.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    It sounds like you need to listen to the full interview. I said it was a long shot before 10.0 BFA
    Which is what I said.. In other words they are not quite there yet. The extra art needed and since we are talking about 9.2.5 its a def no to these for now. Maybe past 10.0, but I will have to wait and see. I would love undead paladins, but Darkfallen bloodknight still doesn't feel right imo. I have seen the interview.. and they also said that locks and paladins still have some barriers, art being one, but lore as well. They would need find a fine line there first I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    How is San'layn an organization?
    We have the Darkfallen(race) and they are split between two groups, dark rangers and the san'layn.

    Its actually not new, now thinking about it, the beastery page of the wotlk website back in the day had darkfallen in their new creature/race list, it was never added and stayed greyed out, this was before dark rangers had anything to do with them... So with that, it was basically already known that Darkfallen was the name of the race and that makes san'layn the name of their organisation. The only real new thing was that Dark rangers are now also called Darkfallen as a race and that casters went one way formed a group and (the lich king or themselves idk?) called them san'layn and rangers and the like the other way and called them dark rangers. It's not much, but that's what we got so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I mean if they never made a Death Knight class, they could always have made it a class skin or customization option.
    Right gotcha. I do believe many would have not been happy with that.. imagine if the death knight was still not playable and we would have had the same discussion wether they should be a class or a class skin. People would have been crying to play like Arthas and raise minons and be like him etc etc. Necromancer wouldn't have fufilled the real death knight feel aka warcraft 3 imo, but necromancer is a perfect class skin option tbh.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2022-05-01 at 08:35 PM.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Right gotcha. I do believe many would have not been happy with that.. imagine if the death knight was still not playable and we would have had the same discussion wether they should be a class or a class skin. People would have been crying to play like Arthas and raise minons and be like him etc etc. Necromancer wouldn't have fufilled the real death knight feel aka warcraft 3 imo, but necromancer is a perfect class skin option tbh.
    But we wouldn't have anything to compare it to. Death Knight was the first class, so it set the precedent for what people now expect of new classes. I don't think it's fair to say what people are happy or unhappy about, since everything was still absolutely new and the game and our classes could have gone in any number of directions.

    Like maybe there could have been Prestige classes, so a Warrior could Prestige into Death Knight, Blademaster or Warlord/Highlord. Or double down on adding new classes that don't have 3 viable Raid specs; Vanilla/Everquest style balance where each class has mainly 1 role.

    The Hero Class system they used was good, but it's amounted to us having 4 new classes in the past 18+ years of WoW. Sure, DK fans got their due, but what about everyone else? We waited 12+ years for Demon Hunter. If they went with a Prestige or Class-centric design rather than Spec-centric, we may have seen much more full representation of new classes much earlier, instead of waiting indefinitely on getting to see a true Blademaster or Necromancer playable, if ever.

    Like if I were to be absolutely frank, the Death Knight concept would have been absolutely fine with just 1-2 specs focusing on Roles rather than Spelltype themes. Did we need a Frost spec DK? Did we need Blood style tank? Unholy was the bread and butter WC3 DK theme, and it could have been fine if it was just broken up to 'Tank spec' and 'DPS spec' with mostly Unholy spells and summons , while Frost and Vampiric abilities get thrown into the mix through talents. You'd still have access to some powerful Frost abilities in your Tank or DPS gameplay; they'd just be more a choice-driven decision to enhance your Tank or DPS role, rather than being a completely defined Specialization.

    It'd play out much more like Heroes of the Storm Arthas, where if you feel like playing more Unholy you could double down on your Death Coil Talents, or if you want to play up Frost you could put all your points to boost Frostmourne Hungers and Howling Blast, or if you feel like being tankier you take the Blood Tap talents. Overall, Arthas feels like a complete Death Knight of all 3 specs, without literally being split up into 3 different DK characters.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-05-01 at 09:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

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