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  1. #181
    Pandaren Monk czarek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    If they were smart they would scale up all the dungeons in the classic versions of the game to be Max level or at least have a heroic version of all the other dungeons Max level same with the raids.They could do it seasonally too as they introduce new upscaled versions until they do everything and then have the ones available rotate.
    This is more like retail idea. As they put into rotation m+ old dungeons and fated raids from the whole exp thats prob the future of retail not classic. As the community wants classic to be classic there is no sense to put all dung into hc on classic imo.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by czarek View Post
    This is more like retail idea. As they put into rotation m+ old dungeons and fated raids from the whole exp thats prob the future of retail not classic. As the community wants classic to be classic there is no sense to put all dung into hc on classic imo.
    I guess they could make specific servers where they do something.
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  3. #183
    Pandaren Monk czarek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    I guess they could make specific servers where they do something.
    They could ofc but the question is how big will be market for this.

  4. #184
    Pandaren Monk meathead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    I understand you have a deficiency but at least attempt to understand what i said, I’ll keep it very simple.

    The removal of titles in 2v2 wasn’t a show case of how imbalanced wotlk was, it is a showcase of how imbalanced 2v2 was. Regardless of expansion.

    Also, by the way, the increased variation of comps is by definition what makes something more balanced. In a perfect world the most balanced game can allow for literally any comp, in the most unbalanced it only allows for one, the scale goes: More viable comps = more balanced game. Wtf do you think balanced means

    This is coming from someone who has gotten gladiator in seasons 4,5,7,8,15 and 16
    tell me again your gald titles?and what bracket you got glad in? s8 2v2 glad?....

    i think your feelings are hurt because people are proving to you and other fan boys that yeah, wrath had crappy balance and pvp was broken.

    The removal of titles in 2v2 wasn’t a show case of how imbalanced wotlk was, it is a showcase of how imbalanced 2v2 was. Regardless of expansion.

    really?then why did the scrapping of 2v2 and or any talk about it ONLY happen in wrath? = wrath broken pvp...
    no dks in TBC smart guy... cant be a problem if they are not in game... pallys got redone for wrath... = cant be a problem in TBC because they were not redone yet... matter of fact i dont think blizz allowed season titles from 2v2 ever again after they scrapped then during wrath,right?

    did you forget that blizz and wow got removed from the mlg pvp at the end of wrath because of how broken the pvp was?

    but i guess you also think removing an entire game from online pvp means good balance?


    Also, by the way, the increased variation of comps is by definition what makes something more balanced.

    again 100% incorrect mr. glad 6+times!

    if you were right that means every x pack after wrath had better balance right?more specs in pvp on live so more balanced pvp then wrath correct?
    all them tanks in wraths 2v2 make it more balanced? well good to know!
    cause i thought it broke pvp thats why blizz removed 2v2 in wrath and wow got kicked from mlg pvp
    so being kicked from mlg and removing 2v2 was not done because of broken pvp it was done because pvp was balanced in wrath? boy o boy you really are a smart one.

    so why was wow pvp wiped out diring and at the end of wrath if the pvp was so good like you claim?why would a huge company do that?...fyi it was broken!

    not sure if you are straight up trolling or just being a fan boy im guessing a little bit of both.
    boy it was a 100% must that enchan shammy be "better" in 2v2 in wrath then in TBC cause no one wants shammys in 3v3 or 5v5 in TBC...

    remember mr glad when wrath started?what specs were good in pvp then in s5....if wrath was so balanced like you keep saying why would a class like wars/arms be the worst spec and class in game? thats 1 less spec in 2v2 pvp for wrath... was something broken... warth was so balanced the most iconic class in game war/arms was not wanted or needed in pvp.. FYI warrior CLASS got massive chnages 7+months into wrath because they were so broken and unplayable! but thats good balance right?

    if you say wtf am i talking about... wars were op'ed in wrath like the other guy said everyone will know you are full of crap.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by marulol View Post
    you do realize wrath has always been the most popular private server expansion right? I've seen it. No private server likes TBC, it goes dead. Unlike wrath where certain private servers have literally had a strong wrath population for over 10 years now.
    warmane who is the biggest wrath server made outland a few years ago.. it was there TBC server and it had 20k+ people on it...
    warglavies in the cash shop and the opening of classic for blizz killed off almost every single private server there is.
    same will happen for wrath when that hits live... private servers will lose player pop.
    excubliar TBC wow was a private server that was like 10+ years old and it went dead after...warmane opened up their TBC server... see how that works?

    also wrath is easy mode easy raiding less grinding face roll classes op'ed classes and broken pvp= this is why fans boys love wrath.
    same reason why some want raiding group/finder tool for wrath....easy mode!
    same reason why people love buying gear with gold...its fing easy! and that crap of buying gear for gold hurts the game big time!
    thats why fan boys love wrath its easier to play then TBC = welfare epics make kids love a game.

    speaking of private wow servers why dont you guys jump over to warmanes wrath server and do some reading?you can find alot of qqing from pvpers qqing about and asking for changes in 2v2... lol! thats like crying about being sent to prison...when smart people would just not getting into trouble to start with..= dont play 2v2 in wrath and theres will be no issue like blizz is saying once again.
    Last edited by meathead; 2022-08-11 at 10:00 PM.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    No, ret was a token raid slot. not something you'd stack more of like real DPS. They could do ok damage and brought unique buffs no one else could. Absolute worst way and reason to get brought to a raid. And even then, they were only really brought on horde side thanks to seal of blood.
    They went from not being taken to any raids in Vanilla to being a regular raid spot in most guilds in TBC. I didn't say you stacked them, but you don't stack rogues either in TBC despite them having the dps capability to top meters, because bringing utility/buffs matters. By your same example an Enhancement Shaman in TBC is not a real dps because they are only taken for Windfury/Bloodlust. A Ret has a raid spot in most raids, that's about the end of it.




    There are Rets on Kil'jaeden doing 3-4k dps. Yes our ideas of viable are completely different, because yours is apparently full of shite.

    warmane who is the biggest wrath server made outland a few years ago.. it was there TBC server and it had 20k+ people on it...
    The TBC didn't have 20k + people, 10-15k maybe. That server dying had nothing to do with Classic, it died long before Classic Vanilla even came out. It was massively popular on launch, then it bled players until SWP was cleared after which point it was a ghost town and got shutdown, the chars sent to the WOTLK server. I would know, my classic guild got the server first SWP clear there.

    Their WOTLK server has been popular for probably a decade without fading, their TBC server didn't come out until 2017 and it didn't last very long. Balanced or not WOTLK is far more casual friendly and far more popular. I prefer TBC btw, but that's me.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2022-08-12 at 05:40 AM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    They went from not being taken to any raids in Vanilla to being a regular raid spot in most guilds in TBC. I didn't say you stacked them, but you don't stack rogues either in TBC despite them having the dps capability to top meters, because bringing utility/buffs matters.
    I mean as long as you have all the buff boxes checked, you typically stack whatever the best DPS applying for your guild is. That means warrs/hunters/locks/rogues/mages. Whoever applies. You know what was a step too far for any real guild? Bringing another token buff spec.

    By your same example an Enhancement Shaman in TBC is not a real dps because they are only taken for Windfury/Bloodlust. A Ret has a raid spot in most raids, that's about the end of it.
    Correct, shaman and any form of dmg druid also fall into the "shit tier" dps where they might get a token slot because they bring some unique buff that outweighs their lack of damage. Wow. Such good design, being brought because you offer a buff and you're not a completely shit player. Exactly the reason I want to be brought to a raid! Also, the issue with that is that, once those few slots fill, you're likely not replacing them for someone who is better performing because of this thing called loyalty.

    Nice cherry picked chart where you cut out exactly what that's even from while ALSO highlighting that, in this particular case, mages are shit and ret is still below all the good DPS specs.

    There are Rets on Kil'jaeden doing 3-4k dps. Yes our ideas of viable are completely different, because yours is apparently full of shite.
    No, mine's full of reality. A good ret without a guild who is looking for one is going to have a hugely hard time getting into one because most of the token slots are already filled and there are WAY too many rets for the number of guilds who are actually capable of full clearing raids. Maybe if the ratio was a perfect 1:1 it would matter less, but the fact is you have people getting not brought to raids strictly because of their class/spec instead of because they suck at the game, which is utter bullshit design. If I'm a better player, I should be a priority for the group. Kinda how the game is now and was in LK. Meanwhile in TBC, the only way you had that kind of marketability is by playing one of the good class/specs.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2022-08-12 at 05:46 AM.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post

    Nice cherry picked chart where you cut out exactly what that's even from while ALSO highlighting that, in this particular case, mages are shit and ret is still below all the good DPS specs. .
    I didn't cut out what it's from, I was talking about Sunwell quite clearly and it's a Sunwell overall raid statistics at 95 percentile, clearly visible in the picture. It's not cherry picked, go look at the Warcraft logs yourself you lazy fuck. And lmao calling mages "shit".
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I didn't cut out what it's from, I was talking about Sunwell quite clearly. It's not cherry picked, go look at the Warcraft logs yourself you lazy fuck. And lmao calling mages "shit".
    I already did and linked some? How am I supposed to guess which one of the hundreds of data combos you could have pulled without the title. Sure, so you grabbed 95th aggregate for sunwell I'M ASSUMING based on what I'm seeing (you know... since I can't see exactly what your report was for since you decided to crop out that top 10 pixels for some reason). Ret is shit on that list. Anything below that top rogue spec is shit.

    Also, in whatever example you pulled that data from, mages are shit. 75 on a chart where the top is 90+ is absolute shit, or do you think people who get Cs on exams while others get As aren't somehow also shit? Because I do. A C is a disgrace.

    I would say marks and arms warrior would be fine but they have higher specs on that list, so they get automatically lumped in to garbage.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2022-08-12 at 05:54 AM.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    I already did and linked some?

    Also, in whatever example you pulled that data from, mages are shit. 75 on a chart where the top is 90+ is absolute shit, or do you think people who get Cs on exams while others get As aren't somehow also shit? Because I do. A C is a disgrace.
    I didn't "pull" any example, are you not reading? That was Sunwell's warcraft logs statistics for the last 2 weeks, all bosses. It's right there in the damn screenshot. Calling it cherry picked because rets are not looking as shit as you expected is hilarious.

    Do you want me to cherry pick for you? I can cherry pick Kil'jaeden instead of the whole raid. I'll even include all percentiles for you, instead of the 95%.





    Oh look now Ret is the 3rd highest spec, there are also more rets than rogues in the parses.

    I would say marks and arms warrior would be fine but they have higher specs on that list, so they get automatically lumped in to garbage.
    Yeah who needs an Arms Warrior, 4% physical damage increased is worthless, just take another Fury Warrior and don't worry about the physicals amiright? Why not just take only Fury Warriors because the graph says they are top yeah?

    You have a lot of raiding experience I can see.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2022-08-12 at 06:01 AM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I didn't "pull" any example, are you not reading?
    Dude I even said I realized it was overall sunwell. That's still pulling data from a site or do you not know what it means to "pull data"? Is sunwell as a whole still not an "example" of performance? It certainly fucking is. It's an example of what to expect from a 95th percentile based on their class/spec. I'm not chastising your data now that I know where it's from. I'm definitely chastising your feelings that ret is fine when it's clearly a huge step below actual competent DPS. If it wasn't shit, it would be brought more than just the token, which you haven't said is the case yet.

    That was Sunwell's warcraft logs statistics for the last 2 weeks, all bosses. It's right there in the damn screenshot. Calling it cherry picked because rets are not looking as shit as you expected is hilarious.
    But... they were looking as shit as I expected?

    Do you want me to cherry pick for you? I can cherry pick Kil'jaeden instead of the whole raid. I'll even include all percentiles for you, instead of the 95%.
    Oh look now Ret is the 3rd highest spec, there are also more rets than rogues in the parses.
    AH! So with that strong performance, rets were getting stacked, right? You definitely cherry picked there, so good job finding at least some way to make them lookd half way decent, but we know that's not the truth.

    The points I've made:

    -Ret wasn't widely accepted in raid or arena until wrath.
    -Ret wasn't huge zomg OP in wrath (think: mace spec rogues in pvp and fury warriors in raids).

    I don't give a shit what it's like in these remade bastards of old content, nor what it was like on p-servers. Ret was regarded (rightfully so) as weaksauce and only brought either as a token or maybe with 1 additional if you were trying to scrape by and needed a warm body AND you were on horde where they could do mediocre damage instead of meme tier balance druid damage.

    Again, I don't care what it is like now (even though they're still shit). That's like saying classic is representative of what the experience back in vanilla was like, ESPECIALLY when looking at raid data, which we know is bogus bullshit. The performance of classic raiders is nothing like what raiders were like in vanilla and hugely skewed WAY higher than it was.

    Wrath was the first place ret was a truly respectable dps slot that was brought for merit of performance instead of merit of a button.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2022-08-12 at 06:46 AM.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    like i said countless times... wows player bases and primes years were built in classic and TBC easy to see from chart if like you said one can read it.
    wrath sold off the TBC epicness!

    cata still had 10-11 million subs so no the end of wrath did not end wow
    The number 1 thing you are missing here, its not hard to gain players / customers, its hard to keep them.
    So that Classic/TBC bring in ppl is not really something impressive, that they stayed for TBC/Wrath is impressive.

    Also you can clearly see that the graph is losing early cata, and not losing in wrath. So how can it not be "the end of wrath did not end wow"
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  12. #192
    Pandaren Monk meathead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    They went from not being taken to any raids in Vanilla to being a regular raid spot in most guilds in TBC. I didn't say you stacked them, but you don't stack rogues either in TBC despite them having the dps capability to top meters, because bringing utility/buffs matters. By your same example an Enhancement Shaman in TBC is not a real dps because they are only taken for Windfury/Bloodlust. A Ret has a raid spot in most raids, that's about the end of it.




    There are Rets on Kil'jaeden doing 3-4k dps. Yes our ideas of viable are completely different, because yours is apparently full of shite.



    The TBC didn't have 20k + people, 10-15k maybe. That server dying had nothing to do with Classic, it died long before Classic Vanilla even came out. It was massively popular on launch, then it bled players until SWP was cleared after which point it was a ghost town and got shutdown, the chars sent to the WOTLK server. I would know, my classic guild got the server first SWP clear there.

    Their WOTLK server has been popular for probably a decade without fading, their TBC server didn't come out until 2017 and it didn't last very long. Balanced or not WOTLK is far more casual friendly and far more popular. I prefer TBC btw, but that's me.
    warmanes outland did have 20k+ people at one time or atleast thats the # they gave us
    i played there for a very long time and i seen the q's to log in first hand
    #'s are always debatable for sure but even 15k people on one server... = a blast most fun i ever had in wow!

    warglavies being added to the cash shop is 100% in part to blame for outland losing its players you can even read about that on their forums, if they still up? and yes classic opening on blizz servers also caused outland to lose players just like tbc opening cost classic players and so on.


    Balanced or not WOTLK is far more casual friendly
    thats why alot of fan boys like it can play face roll classes and get free welfare gear
    look at live and you can see its roots in wrath lol.

    i 100% agree with what you are saying about rets and that same poster said rets/pallys were not as op'ed as wars were in wrath.. lol.
    he does not understand outside of dps raids bring certain classes/specs for buffs.. much like you said about shammys and wf.

    arms were brought to raids in TBC for blood frenzy.. after not being wanted for raiding in classic

    sounds like you played on outland?what was your toon name?
    i played and orc war that i killed alot of ally with
    shoot if outland still has there ladder/kills up it would be easy to pick out my war

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I didn't cut out what it's from, I was talking about Sunwell quite clearly and it's a Sunwell overall raid statistics at 95 percentile, clearly visible in the picture. It's not cherry picked, go look at the Warcraft logs yourself you lazy fuck. And lmao calling mages "shit".
    hes qqing calling pallys and rets weak... but goes on to say
    A good ret without a guild who is looking for one is going to have a hugely hard time getting into one because most of the token slots are already filled and there are WAY too many rets for the number of guilds who are actually capable of full clearing raids.

    yeah with so many rets being played i guess they suck....
    pallys in wrath = 2nd best tank to dks best pvp and pve healers and top end dps/burst for rets in pvp and pve.

    beepboo...
    when wrath started warriors were the worse classes in game for pvp pve dps and tanking.
    arms ONLY buff blood frenzy was giving out to others fury was sat and no one wanted a warrior tank! it was so bad people who did not reroll dk or pally left arms and played fury in pvp! but that does not count to you? this lead to the warrior redo during wrath and the massive Armour pen buffs we also seen in wrath.

    example
    juggernaut the arms talent in wrath that was added in during s7 almost 7 months after wrath started... it use to have 100% crit chance but it was nerfed down to only 25% crit. this is an example of how bad the blance in wrath was and you think warriors were op'ed?bro warriors had to be redone in wrath because they sucked!
    Last edited by meathead; 2022-08-12 at 08:09 PM.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    This is coming from someone who has gotten gladiator in seasons 4,5,7,8,15 and 16
    tell me again your gald titles?and what bracket you got glad in? s8 2v2 glad?....

    2v2 : 4 and 5
    3v3 : 5, 7, 8, 15 and 16

    If you really want to know sweetheart

    Also btw glad titles weren't around in 2v2 for s8. Idk if you knew that or not because you trolling and you saying something ignorant is actually indistinguishable


    really?then why did the scrapping of 2v2 and or any talk about it ONLY happen in wrath? = wrath broken pvp...
    no dks in TBC smart guy... cant be a problem if they are not in game... pallys got redone for wrath... = cant be a problem in TBC because they were not redone yet... matter of fact i dont think blizz allowed season titles from 2v2 ever again after they scrapped then during wrath,right?
    Well if we pull all of our two braincells together we can use the power of knowledge and see that Blizzard clearly wasn't focused on balance even remotely in TBC nor did they care. They didn't pull the titles because arena was brand new and they clearly didn't care if it was imbalanced. If this wasn't obvious by the 70% rogue participation in the brackets then idk what was. Again, not a wotlk issue, but a 2v2 issue.

    did you forget that blizz and wow got removed from the mlg pvp at the end of wrath because of how broken the pvp was?

    but i guess you also think removing an entire game from online pvp means good balance?
    Sigh...this is where your ignorance is showing again. If you actually pvped back then you would have known that it was specifically removed because of Cata, not wotlk. The issue MLG had with wow was that in the middle of one of their biggest tournaments which would have lasted weeks on end world of warcraft was releasing Cataclysm. And because of this and how Blizzard was shit at planning these things back then, Blizzard decided that half of the tournament was to be done during the wotlk season while the other half was to be done on the cataclysm expansion. MLG wrote a giant ass article explaining how this was a massive issue and that because of the style of game wow was it was impossible to hold tournaments like this especially when cata was released it was an absolute shit show in terms of bugs that it was unplayable on a tournament leve. MLG just postponed one tournament and told blizzard basically to fix their game after cata released and it was still broken as shit so that's when MLG dropped them. So if you keep bringing up MLG dropping wow that isn't a bad look on wrath, it's bad look on cata lol

    If you actually knew what you were talking about you would know this.

    Also, I never once said wotlk was the most balanced version of the game out there or that it was perfectly balanced. I said it was more balanced than TBC because you said it wasn't.

    Also, by the way, the increased variation of comps is by definition what makes something more balanced.
    again 100% incorrect mr. glad 6+times!
    You keep saying incorrect but you have nothing to provide to me that is correct. So tell me. What does balance mean to you then?

    if you were right that means every x pack after wrath had better balance right?more specs in pvp on live so more balanced pvp then wrath correct?
    Sure. I never said wrath was the most balanced I said it was more balanced than tbc, if you could read thanks.
    Last edited by Somic; 2022-08-12 at 08:41 PM.

  14. #194
    Makes sense. How many people are playing Classic - not SoM - right now? I'd guess 7 people.

    Their SoM launch of Classic was a massive mistake. They shouldn't have done it until after Wrath Classic. It was too soo and so I imagine they'll do the right thing this time and go for TBC SoM towards to the end of Wrath Classic around the time they announce Cataclysm Classic.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    AH! So with that strong performance, rets were getting stacked, right? .
    Literally nobody at any point said anything about stacking rets other than you. Stop pulling strawmen out of your ass so you can suck them off. Don't start arguments about topics you know fuck all about.

    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    warmanes outland did have 20k+ people at one time or atleast thats the # they gave us
    i played there for a very long time and i seen the q's to log in first hand
    #'s are always debatable for sure but even 15k people on one server... = a blast most fun i ever had in wow!

    warglavies being added to the cash shop is 100% in part to blame for outland losing its players you can even read about that on their forums, if they still up? and yes classic opening on blizz servers also caused outland to lose players just like tbc opening cost classic players and so on.!
    For sure it had a lot of players but I never saw them report 20k and I played that server from launch day, it was in the 10-15k range always and even then people claimed they were lying about numbers. Lying or not they had a massive amount of players at the start and it felt a bit like being on Gehennas now, but it did drop off heavily.

    I don't think the cash shop was to blame because their WOTLK server has a cash shop too and that's part of why it's popular, people can buy Shadowmourne and pretend to be good at the game. The TBC server also had a thing where the cash shop could only buy previous tier items, not current content so you couldn't buy current items during progression. I played in a few guilds including Surge, I developed the Fury Warrior gearing sheet with the help of Lulleh from Panacea, and I joined Panacea for Classic.

    It was a good server and the bosses were much more challenging than Classic due to being buffed, but it went from Hero to Zero pretty damn fast... A bit like TBC Classic to be honest, almost all the servers are dead.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2022-08-13 at 04:39 AM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Literally nobody at any point said anything about stacking rets other than you. Stop pulling strawmen out of your ass so you can suck them off. Don't start arguments about topics you know fuck all about.
    Right, and I've said my criteria for what I want out of ret is to be generally accepted like other proper DPS classes, which happened in WOTLK. You're trying to say "well, rets were brought to raids in TBC, though! That means they DID fit your criteria!"
    No, they didn't and you've admitted as much. Stop trying to change my mind when I DO know what I'm talking about. I don't give a shit that 3 rets per server got to go raiding because they brought a unique buff and did more damage than an empty slot. That's not enough flexibility to enable all the rets who had aspirations of raiding and were perfectly good players.

    WOTLK changes fixed that.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Right, and I've said my criteria for what I want out of ret is to be generally accepted like other proper DPS classes, which happened in WOTLK. You're trying to say "well, rets were brought to raids in TBC, though! That means they DID fit your criteria!"
    No, they didn't and you've admitted as much. Stop trying to change my mind when I DO know what I'm talking about. I don't give a shit that 3 rets per server got to go raiding because they brought a unique buff and did more damage than an empty slot. That's not enough flexibility to enable all the rets who had aspirations of raiding and were perfectly good players.

    WOTLK changes fixed that.
    WoW is not a damage meter racing game and WOTLK changes nothing. Good luck trying to find a spot as a Fury Warrior in T7... WOTLK actually makes it easier to cover raid buffs because they are no longer unique, meaning you can leave behind the weaker alternatives and run the stronger specs, easier to class stack. Not only that but the overall class balance is not that much better, if at all. The only thing that really changed was removing the ability to send people to Jupiter on the meters with multiple bloodlusts.

    I got a news flash for you, you still don't want more than 1 Ret Paladin in a 25man raid in WOTLK, nothing has changed. You will run like 4 Warlocks, 2 mages, maybe 2 rogues, 3-4 DK's depending on what tank setup you run. Ret Paladin is valuable in WOTLK, just like it was valuable in TBC, a strong and popular raiding class, but you're having a laugh if you think any guild is going to want to stack Rets ("bring the player not the class!"), and why would you even desire that to begin with? Why would that matter.

    I bring up Fury Warrior a lot, because in Classic every raid guild had like 40 of them on roster, all the people who wanted to play it still played it in TBC where you only ran 0-3 Fury Warriors. It was completely fine, and there are nowhere fucking near as many Rets as Fury Warriors.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2022-08-13 at 05:04 AM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    WoW is not a damage meter racing game and WOTLK changes nothing.
    This flies in the face of basically every raiding guild I've ever been a part of that was of any note. It was constant fighting for top meter slot. Stop lying and trying to act like this isn't how it is and has essentially always been for GOOD guilds that actually clear content.

    Not only that but the overall class balance is not that much better, if at all.
    No, it definitely is. Every class has at least one DPS spec within 10% of the top chart performers in basically every raid tier.

    ("bring the player not the class!")
    This is ACTUALLY how the game started to shift and it was better for it.

    and why would you even desire that to begin with? Why would that matter.
    I don't want them to stack any particular class. I want exactly what you "lol" responded with in the quote above. Bring the player, not the class. Best player gets the DPS slot because they bring the best DPS numbers. No need to look for anything in particular, just whoever performs the best out of whoever is available. It's why large group content (read 20+) is so much better than small group content to me. It's why raids are the best thing in wow.
    Inb4 "waaaah but homogenization and identity!"

    It was completely fine, and there are nowhere fucking near as many Rets as Fury Warriors.
    That's because you're talking about CLASSIC. Vanilla was vastly different and for the longest time before fury got discovered, it was "you're a warrior, you tank." There were retnubs a plenty and paladin was always top 3 most popular classes by population numbers. It has always been one if not the most popular class and this was even before horde got access to them.



    This is why I don't give a shit about classic. The community as a whole didn't have the knowledge in the original releases they do now. They started to get there, though, in WOTLK. Basically everyone had a DPS meter. Basically everyone had raid mods. Basically everyone referenced sites for build sims and knew what the meta was. That wasn't the case outside of maybe 1-2 guilds per server in TBC, and maybe the top 30 guilds world-wide in vanilla. However many guilds actually cleared OG naxx. The game was too immature to be afflicted with only choosing what was the most OP thing because basically no one knew what the most OP thing was. It's like trying to compare league in it's first year to now. Vastly different.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2022-08-13 at 07:22 AM.

  19. #199
    Bring the player, not the class. Best player gets the DPS slot because they bring the best DPS numbers
    It's a myth, it doesn't exist. If you think classes are within 10% of each other in WOTLK I don't know what to tell you, there were fights in WOTLK where I was 40-50% ahead of 2nd place in an equally geared raid. In T7 you will have Warlocks doing 9k dps while Fury Warriors struggle to get above 5 at the same point of progression.

    You're completely delusional if you think "bring the player not the class" actually exists. All they did was make it easier to bring raid buffs without specific classes, but that also meant it was now easier to stack the classes that did more dps, and boy damn are you going to have a fucking wake up call when you see how strong some specs are compared to others.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Yeah i do understand them here. BC was fun but that is it. Same with classic servers.

    The should, after they are in MoP, start from the beginning again in a slightly faster cadance with staggered servers.

    So server who go through classic to mop forever. But 2 different chains. When the first batch fo server is mid Wotlk they should start the second batch with classic.

    I don't really see why we should keep classic servers forever. Its not like there are many people still laying it.
    With the different Expansion chain servers they can add stuff to change it up a bit like they did it with Season of Mastery
    Thats already milking it for no real profit. You cant keep that loop going with just selling it at classic with changes, bc , bit this time around with more changes.

    People have experience that era again, why would that be great a third time? Just move on. Wrath and maybe mop is hype the rest is forgetable.

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