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  1. #201
    As a former feral Druid who came back for part of classic and stayed away from TBC.

    TBC was my favorite expansion when it was originally out and I was actually doing pretty good at it back then.

    That being said, I knew that all the original problems of the expansion would be there, known and never fixed so I could expect all the original top DPS to flood the servers and overall raids and battleground would suck because of it.

    Will continue to stay gone in WotLK. If blizzard wanted my subscription they would both need to have a TBC server active but at the same time actually work to address balance issues in it.

    As a Druid, main things they could have done to address that for feral would have been to address their DPS scaling by maybe letting rake scale with AP, allowing feral charge to be used in both forms with no dead zone to give them an interrupt, give feral spec an immunity to hibernate built into leader of the pack. As well as allowing them to use all their abilities indoors outside of travel form, the whole “No running in the house” crap was stupid and having a root that doesn’t work in almost all meaningful PVE and half of the PvP situation was equally crap.

    For balance, allow them to talent away the cooldown on hurricane and better mana recovery.

    And base line a normal rez.


    Basically allow players to play when it was fun but the meta was no longer a foregone conclusion and the balance issues could be addressed.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  2. #202
    Id hate to see them just rerun the entire series... Honestly telling people when the CAP will be would be great so people dont invest 2-3 years and end up right back where we are now with wow.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Empire Of Sight View Post
    Id hate to see them just rerun the entire series... Honestly telling people when the CAP will be would be great so people dont invest 2-3 years and end up right back where we are now with wow.
    That could happen, but im hoping that Blizzard does something else with the series of classic->bc->wotlk. I dont think most people want whats coming from Cata and onwards, thats more or less what we have now tbh.

    But i've also said back when classic re-launched that Blizzard sooner or later would have to face this issue, and its a big one; What do they do when WotLK draws to an end?

  4. #204
    I mean they could just release a whole new style of WoW instead of rehashing, it would be cool if they took what they've learned over the last 15 years and threw it into a new MMO. I personally haven't played past the new classic server just because I seen the slope they were sliding down on but who knows , hopefully they aren't just cash grabbing until the WoW brand dwindles away/ web3 gaming takes over.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Empire Of Sight View Post
    Id hate to see them just rerun the entire series... Honestly telling people when the CAP will be would be great so people dont invest 2-3 years and end up right back where we are now with wow.
    im so glad i didnt invest more then 1 week into playing TBC . my choice was correct - boosted a char - had a bit fun leveling then few dungeons and done

    imagine farming those raids like crazy only to have all that work negated because you cannot leave those chars "untouched " and OP like hell forever

    this also shows that there is no point investing more then that in WOLK too. just come back foold around then some dungeons on another boosted char this time prot pala and be done .

    joke of a company .

  6. #206
    Pandaren Monk meathead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    2v2 : 4 and 5
    3v3 : 5, 7, 8, 15 and 16

    If you really want to know sweetheart

    Also btw glad titles weren't around in 2v2 for s8. Idk if you knew that or not because you trolling and you saying something ignorant is actually indistinguishable




    Well if we pull all of our two braincells together we can use the power of knowledge and see that Blizzard clearly wasn't focused on balance even remotely in TBC nor did they care. They didn't pull the titles because arena was brand new and they clearly didn't care if it was imbalanced. If this wasn't obvious by the 70% rogue participation in the brackets then idk what was. Again, not a wotlk issue, but a 2v2 issue.


    The issue MLG had with wow was that in the middle of one of their biggest tournaments which would have lasted weeks on end world of warcraft was releasing Cataclysm. And because of this and how Blizzard was shit at planning these things back then, Blizzard decided that half of the tournament was to be done during the wotlk season while the other half was to be done on the cataclysm expansion. MLG wrote a giant ass article explaining how this was a massive issue and that because of the style of game wow was it was impossible to hold tournaments like this especially when cata was released it was an absolute shit show in terms of bugs that it was unplayable on a tournament leve. MLG just postponed one tournament and told blizzard basically to fix their game after cata released and it was still broken as shit so that's when MLG dropped them. So if you keep bringing up MLG dropping wow that isn't a bad look on wrath, it's bad look on cata lol

    If you actually knew what you were talking about you would know this.

    Also, I never once said wotlk was the most balanced version of the game out there or that it was perfectly balanced. I said it was more balanced than TBC because you said it wasn't.



    You keep saying incorrect but you have nothing to provide to me that is correct. So tell me. What does balance mean to you then?



    Sure. I never said wrath was the most balanced I said it was more balanced than tbc, if you could read thanks.
    you got glad title in s5?... LMFAO! your trolling ass is already caught! season 5 7 and 8... yeah really easy to see why you talking up wrath.. what class did you play?

    being a 6+ time glad could you jump on your toon and show us? pics videos and the people you played with?what server?

    yeah i knew glad title were not around for 2v2 in s8... its what i been saying they sucked so bad and were so broken blizz removed titles and rewards from 2v2.

    you are such a fan boy!you cant even admit wraths balance was the worst! thats right its not a wrath issue its a 2v2 issue......that did not effect TBC..

    Sigh...this is where your ignorance is showing again. If you actually pvped back then you would have known that it was specifically removed because of Cata, not wotlk.


    hows this? wow was removed from mgl pvp not bcacsue of catas balance issues "better then wrath" but becasue of years of bad pvp/balance that wrath gave us! see how thats works? of wraths pvp was so good like you said 2v2 nor wow as a whole would ever been removed from pvp. wow has never returned to mlg pvp....if wows pvp in wrath was high end mlg would just say fix the bug's... in the game/cata and welcome back right?nope!

    like i said wow got the big boot from mlg pvp at the end of wrath/ start of cata!
    this was done due to years of bad balance in wrath! see blizz removing 2v2 in wrath for more proof!

    its funny 2v2 was removed in wrath and wow was removed by mlg at the end of wrath/start of cata and some how you think thats means good balance?LMFAO @ YOU! you talk up wrath cause you liked it and played it MR.s5 glad!

    speaking of s5 im glad you think the most broken pvp season of all time did not effect mgl removing wow from pvp, or 2v2...
    no comment on how broken s5 was?what class did you play?dk or pally?


    i find you very funny!sitting here trying to talk up wraths pvp... LMFAO!
    yes priests needed a disarm and so do rogues...people like you like 2v2 in wrath cause you dont have to watch mana you can just spam heals/dps and say look at me go!

    the watered down pvp the arms race.. ability bloat broken specs.. all stems from wrath! dks that play as a ranged class like a lock?balance!to many to list!

    you talk about how cata broken wows pvp...LMFAO!had better balance 100% then wrath from day 1. lets compare s5 with s9?

    around late of 2010, World of Warcraft was dropped from the MLG circuit,
    cata was launched December 7, 2010

    wow was dropped because of wrath from wrath not because of cata!

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...vp-is-that-bad

    blame it on cata all you want... lol! you sound like a warmane/ wrath player are you?
    i enjoy reading the forums on warmane all the wrath players qqing about 2v2.. its broke and blizz is telling us again!
    Last edited by meathead; 2022-08-21 at 08:41 PM.

  7. #207
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    im so glad i didnt invest more then 1 week into playing TBC . my choice was correct - boosted a char - had a bit fun leveling then few dungeons and done

    imagine farming those raids like crazy only to have all that work negated because you cannot leave those chars "untouched " and OP like hell forever
    this also shows that there is no point investing more then that in WOLK too.

    So, the same thing that happened with Cata MoP WoD Legion BfA SL every single expansion since TBC.


    How and why are you whining about this as an actual criticism? Players asked for the vanilla WoW + TBC experience. They got it. When the next expansion comes out, you level up again and replace the gear you farmed again.

    joke of a company .
    Apparently, the joke is only on players like yourself: those behind the curve.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire Of Sight View Post
    I mean they could just release a whole new style of WoW instead of rehashing

    That's what they do with every successive expansion. They stick with what they feel works, and add in new things they want to try and/or improve on. Every new thing is a new style.


    Players asked for the "classic" experience as it was back then. They are getting that in all 3 installments of WoW Classic.

    it would be cool if they took what they've learned over the last 15 years and threw it into a new MMO. I personally haven't played past the new classic server just because I seen the slope they were sliding down on but who knows , hopefully they aren't just cash grabbing until the WoW brand dwindles away/ web3 gaming takes over.

    One could dream that Blizzard went all in a new MMO, but for business reasons they won't and there would probably be way too many parallels between WoW for anybody to enjoy it.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    you got glad title in s5?... LMFAO! your trolling ass is already caught! season 5 7 and 8... yeah really easy to see why you talking up wrath.. what class did you play?

    being a 6+ time glad could you jump on your toon and show us? pics videos and the people you played with?what server?

    yeah i knew glad title were not around for 2v2 in s8... its what i been saying they sucked so bad and were so broken blizz removed titles and rewards from 2v2.

    you are such a fan boy!you cant even admit wraths balance was the worst! thats right its not a wrath issue its a 2v2 issue......that did not effect TBC..

    Sigh...this is where your ignorance is showing again. If you actually pvped back then you would have known that it was specifically removed because of Cata, not wotlk.


    hows this? wow was removed from mgl pvp not bcacsue of catas balance issues "better then wrath" but becasue of years of bad pvp/balance that wrath gave us! see how thats works? of wraths pvp was so good like you said 2v2 nor wow as a whole would ever been removed from pvp. wow has never returned to mlg pvp....if wows pvp in wrath was high end mlg would just say fix the bug's... in the game/cata and welcome back right?nope!

    like i said wow got the big boot from mlg pvp at the end of wrath/ start of cata!
    this was done due to years of bad balance in wrath! see blizz removing 2v2 in wrath for more proof!

    its funny 2v2 was removed in wrath and wow was removed by mlg at the end of wrath/start of cata and some how you think thats means good balance?LMFAO @ YOU! you talk up wrath cause you liked it and played it MR.s5 glad!

    speaking of s5 im glad you think the most broken pvp season of all time did not effect mgl removing wow from pvp, or 2v2...
    no comment on how broken s5 was?what class did you play?dk or pally?


    i find you very funny!sitting here trying to talk up wraths pvp... LMFAO!
    yes priests needed a disarm and so do rogues...people like you like 2v2 in wrath cause you dont have to watch mana you can just spam heals/dps and say look at me go!

    the watered down pvp the arms race.. ability bloat broken specs.. all stems from wrath! dks that play as a ranged class like a lock?balance!to many to list!

    you talk about how cata broken wows pvp...LMFAO!had better balance 100% then wrath from day 1. lets compare s5 with s9?

    around late of 2010, World of Warcraft was dropped from the MLG circuit,
    cata was launched December 7, 2010

    wow was dropped because of wrath from wrath not because of cata!

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...vp-is-that-bad

    blame it on cata all you want... lol! you sound like a warmane/ wrath player are you?
    i enjoy reading the forums on warmane all the wrath players qqing about 2v2.. its broke and blizz is telling us again!
    This post was so loaded with nonsense I’m glad it got infracted at least.

  9. #209
    haven't bothered with classic servers since tbc came out or had time to do a season of mastery

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    That could happen, but im hoping that Blizzard does something else with the series of classic->bc->wotlk. I dont think most people want whats coming from Cata and onwards, thats more or less what we have now tbh.

    But i've also said back when classic re-launched that Blizzard sooner or later would have to face this issue, and its a big one; What do they do when WotLK draws to an end?
    Im sure a lot of people will be happy with a new classic wow starting from square one. I myself missed the first launch of classic in 2018.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by imoncrack View Post
    haven't bothered with classic servers since tbc came out or had time to do a season of mastery
    Thank you for contributing to this thread mate

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Trunks2017 View Post
    Im sure a lot of people will be happy with a new classic wow starting from square one. I myself missed the first launch of classic in 2018.
    For sure. They did go with Season Of Mastery, but tbh that happend to quickly after classic ended. They should just have kept 1-2 servers up that were classic and waited a bit for relaunch.

    But, SoM is going to happen again!

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    For sure. They did go with Season Of Mastery, but tbh that happend to quickly after classic ended. They should just have kept 1-2 servers up that were classic and waited a bit for relaunch.

    But, SoM is going to happen again!
    Ya I personally will have no interest no matter what they do with SoM until wotlk is over. But I think once it is over they really need to lean into the whole changes with som. Keep the regular servers up if you want the og experience but for me personally if I want to play vanilla again it’s gotta be switched up by a lot

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Ya I personally will have no interest no matter what they do with SoM until wotlk is over. But I think once it is over they really need to lean into the whole changes with som. Keep the regular servers up if you want the og experience but for me personally if I want to play vanilla again it’s gotta be switched up by a lot
    To be fair, as frequently as "Classic+" gets pitched I think the playerbase needs to accept that the closest we'll ever get to a legit Classic+ is through experimentation on the SoM formula. Unless WotLK manages to be an absolutely unprecedented success with unreal retention figures I can't ever see Blizzard seriously considering maintaining two fully independent versions of the same live service.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    To be fair, as frequently as "Classic+" gets pitched I think the playerbase needs to accept that the closest we'll ever get to a legit Classic+ is through experimentation on the SoM formula. Unless WotLK manages to be an absolutely unprecedented success with unreal retention figures I can't ever see Blizzard seriously considering maintaining two fully independent versions of the same live service.
    Oh I completely agree that som is the only formula that will be successful, unless like you said wotlk kills it so hard we rerun that but even still I think it would need some SoM esq changes to it.

    I just think if they are doing SoM they need to just go all in on some of the ‘changes’. I’m not suggesting adding shit like lfr or covenants or anything. But they need to really switch up the balancing of classes, maybe add in new profession items that are actually crazy good. Maybe add in heroic 5 mans in vanilla with raid like gear quality. Something like this to make people actually go “alright I want to play vanilla again with these changes”.

    A 15% xp buff and a removal of world buffs isn’t going to get me to go back to vanilla for quite some time.

    Now if you make 5 man heroics with raid tier quality gear and make shadow priests be a viable dps that doesn’t just oom in 5 seconds…. I might do it again fairly quickly.

  16. #216
    i can speak only from my own experience and as much as i love TBC raids and zones and music, for me the expansion wasnt that great, especielly as a hunter. So much annoyances like pet dying from BS stuff, mana issues, arrows stacking low etc. I honestly dont understand why anyone would want to stick around for X amounts of years doing SWP each week, but thats just me. (i dont say its anything wrong with liking TBC)

  17. #217
    Pandaren Monk meathead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    This post was so loaded with nonsense I’m glad it got infracted at least.
    you got a ban so you must be a real "gamer" lol its werid you are such a long time anf high end wow player and you just joined mmo champion in july of 2022...lol.

    s5 vs s9?... why did you not comment on that?
    against what class did you play in s5 when you got glad in the most broken season in wow history...
    2v2 and wow as a whole being removed by mlg in wrath is a good thing since it was so balanced right?

    the really funny thing is you say mlg wanted cata for pvp blizz "according to you said no" and they got the boot from mlg... whats that tell you?mlg had enough of wraths broken pvp.

    when are you going to list your 6+ glad titles with servers and people you played with? 6 time glad is blizzcon level right? did you ever beat reckful and players like him?

    you could be a glad in every season and i would still you are clueless when it comes to pvp/pve in TBC vs wrath
    because no one can justify how utterly broken wraths pvp was/is even more so the worst season ever S5.
    S5 alone = worst pvp season of all time!thats that was wraths first pvp season... thats FACT alone proves what5 im saying it true!

    TBC druids in 2v2 were the most op'ed abnd rogues with warglavies could be op'ed also but compared to DK's pallys and pve gear and shadowmoure in wrath... lol easy to see wraths pvp was way worse.

    add to that how you keep forgetting to talk about warriors in s5....and how the entire class was sat in pvp and pve and needed a massive fixs' and new talent like juggernaurt and Armour buffs to be playable...yeah fury was sat to...! kind of takes away from your more specs in pvp the better right?

    ESL dropped WoW also.. and not because of cata...

    - - - Updated - - -



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Strange I don't recall saying that



    1) This isn't a blue post it's some fucking shitty formatted garbage you posted, provide links.
    2) Don't assume I'm a wrath fan I'm just pointing out errors




    I just want you to know I'm not reading any bullshit formatted like this lol. Snip an image or post a link but trying to format it yourself isn't gonna happen.
    blue posts!
    2v2 Arena Achievements and Titles
    We’re going to award achievements and titles for the 2v2 Arena bracket, just like we did in Burning Crusade Classic.

    Originally, Wrath of the Lich King dropped achievements and titles from the 2v2 Arena bracket, but due to popular demand, we’re going to preserve them in Wrath Classic. When we originally stopped awarding titles and achievements for 2v2s, it was because 2v2 was difficult to balance. Nowadays, rather than try to make all classes equally capable in all brackets, we want to preserve the existing class balance and celebrate the unique play style for the classes that perform well in each bracket.

    We’ll always continue to listen to feedback on these and all topics. I hope this answers many lingering questions about what the state of things will be when we release.

    Thanks, as always, for your interest and support!


    did you end up reading the blue posts that i linked?it was right from main page of mmo champ

    that is a blue post from wow dev i dont know what to tell you if you cant understand that even with me linking it for you...
    2v2 was scrapped during live wrath do to balance issues = dks pallys pve gear and tanks...

    bro i really dont need to "prove" to what what millions of players already know...you should already know this if you played wrath...but it sound slike you did not play wrath correct?then why comment when you dont know?

    anyone who played wraths knows 2v2 got scrapped like the blue post says...
    this is why i keep saying its funny anyone can go to warmane "wrath private server" and read all the qq over 2v2 /pvp. it was no good and scrapped during live wrath so why would it be "good" on a private server? play 3v3 like blizz told everyone... dont complain about gas prices if you drive a V12.. drive something better on gas!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    They went from not being taken to any raids in Vanilla to being a regular raid spot in most guilds in TBC. I didn't say you stacked them, but you don't stack rogues either in TBC despite them having the dps capability to top meters, because bringing utility/buffs matters. By your same example an Enhancement Shaman in TBC is not a real dps because they are only taken for Windfury/Bloodlust. A Ret has a raid spot in most raids, that's about the end of it.




    There are Rets on Kil'jaeden doing 3-4k dps. Yes our ideas of viable are completely different, because yours is apparently full of shite.



    The TBC didn't have 20k + people, 10-15k maybe. That server dying had nothing to do with Classic, it died long before Classic Vanilla even came out. It was massively popular on launch, then it bled players until SWP was cleared after which point it was a ghost town and got shutdown, the chars sent to the WOTLK server. I would know, my classic guild got the server first SWP clear there.

    Their WOTLK server has been popular for probably a decade without fading, their TBC server didn't come out until 2017 and it didn't last very long. Balanced or not WOTLK is far more casual friendly and far more popular. I prefer TBC btw, but that's me.
    so just to comment on this again... did you forget that warmane had 2 TBC servers?one normal and one with cash shop and more xps? and yes classic opening hurt that player bases big time and even more so warglvies in the cash shop killed it, i seen it first hand!!them two tbc servers killed off a 10 year+ TBC server "excubliar".. around and round. makers of excubalir tbc wow made a new TBC server but its low pop cause everyone plays tbc on blizz server now and dont forget atlas?tbc wow thats low pop beacsue people came back to blizz.

    jump on warmane yesterday and it said there was 30k+ players on...but that also includes there cata server...you think 30+k were playing warmane...#'S LIE right?

    warmane keeps there wrath servers going "for now" by giving people free 80 boosts and gear..
    they also make tournament realms, hold tournaments and even restart seasons when they end.
    cash shops and a whole lot of other fluff to keep people playing do this for other servers and people would play,any time frame of wow more or less.
    warmanes other servers are just there for a cash cow since well warmane is a wrath server... they try to keep that there main force.

    we are/were all playing TBC classic right now right?"along with millions of others correct? kind of proves my point.
    Last edited by meathead; 2022-08-29 at 03:18 PM.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    im so glad i didnt invest more then 1 week into playing TBC . my choice was correct - boosted a char - had a bit fun leveling then few dungeons and done

    imagine farming those raids like crazy only to have all that work negated because you cannot leave those chars "untouched " and OP like hell forever

    this also shows that there is no point investing more then that in WOLK too. just come back foold around then some dungeons on another boosted char this time prot pala and be done .

    joke of a company .
    This kind of logic is honestly just baffling to me. It makes no sense at all.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    so just to comment on this again... did you forget that warmane had 2 TBC servers?one normal and one with cash shop and more xps? and yes classic opening hurt that player bases big time and even more so warglvies in the cash shop killed it, i seen it first hand!!them two tbc servers killed off a 10 year+ TBC server "excubliar".. around and round. makers of excubalir tbc wow made a new TBC server but its low pop cause everyone plays tbc on blizz server now and dont forget atlas?tbc wow thats low pop beacsue people came back to blizz.
    .
    Yeah I remember, Panacea started on the hardcore server. They added the non-shop server about a week after the other one pretty much unannounced, but that server got merged into the shop server around the end of T5 if I remember right due to inactivity, it never gained the same popularity as Outland and really struggled by comparison. Also, if you looked at the forums at the time people were begging for the shop to be added to Outland, because initially in phase 1 it wasn't available for quite some time, buying loot is extremely common/popular just like it is in TBC Classic.

    As for other Pservers I'm out of the loop since Classic came out, not followed any new launches (there was that one popular one that came out about 6 months or something before TBC Classic?) I did briefly try that. But TBC right now is not that popular, we've seen so many servers that were breaming with activity during Vanilla Classic be just shut down and you can only really play on dead servers or mega-servers now, I wouldn't remotely call it healthy.

    Playing on Gehennas is giving you a false idea, because it's the destination for all Horde refugees from other servers that are now completely dead. At the end of Classic Vanilla the game was extremely healthy, going into WOTLK it's a mess. TBC is my favourite expansion with no exceptions, but clearly it does not have the sticking power with the majority.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post

    [B][U]blue posts!

    did you end up reading the blue posts that i linked?it was right from main page of mmo champ
    I don't see a link anywhere

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    i dont know what to tell you if you cant understand that even with me linking it for you...
    Probably because you haven't fucking linked shit, do you know what a link is?

    https://www.google.com/

    bro i really dont need to "prove" to what what millions of players already know
    You don't speak for anyone but yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    you should already know this if you played wrath...but it sound slike you did not play wrath correct?
    Incorrect, played since BC
    Last edited by Drusin; 2022-08-29 at 07:07 PM.
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