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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Hmm info doesn't look wrong, looks like Wow got its 10/11m playerbase in 2008, by the time Wrath was announced maybe?





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    No expansion is objectively better than another expansion, it's 100% opinion when you say it that way. I can say SL is better than Wrath all day long and not be wrong because it's my opinion. If however we start talking about specifics like sub count or number of people doing some content then you can be objectively wrong but just "SL better than Wrath" cannot be objectively wrong.
    You basically said it but just to maybe try and be a little more specific here, it is possible to be objective when you say one expansion is better than the other.

    Like you said, if you are talking about sub counts or popularity or overall success in terms of the amount of people play it you can be.

    The issue is you specifically need to define ‘better’. Because you can think ‘better’ just means more fun for you specifically. You can think ‘better’ means more developed graphics. ‘Better’ can mean easier. If you define what you mean by better (which in the case of the guy you are referring to it was defined to the meathead poster), then you 100% can objectively say it’s better.

  2. #142
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    I am still bummed about this. I wish there was a way they could reset my Hunter and transfer her back to a Vanilla realm. Sigh.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by saixilein View Post
    There wont be cata classic servers. This Addon was disliked to much.
    I also see no reason to do any xpac post Wrath, it went downhill fast from Cata on. Numbers back that up, its when WoW started to bleed subscribers.
    Last edited by Nefastus; 2022-08-08 at 02:16 PM.
    English is not my main language so grammar errors might happen.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefastus View Post
    I also see no reason to do any xpac post Wrath, it went downhill fast from Cata on. Numbers back that up, its when WoW started to bleed subscribers.
    I mean, i loved cata back then. Rbg, hard heroic dungeons, 4.0 raids were super fun, 4.3 dungeons were cool etc... But overall i guess to many people disliked it.

    They should skip cata and go for mop classic.

  5. #145
    I am Murloc! SinR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saixilein View Post
    I mean, i loved cata back then. Rbg, hard heroic dungeons, 4.0 raids were super fun, 4.3 dungeons were cool etc... But overall i guess to many people disliked it.

    They should skip cata and go for mop classic.
    yes I too enjoyed Green Jesus being shoved down my throat by the end of Cataclysm
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
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  6. #146
    Pandaren Monk meathead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konteil View Post
    maybe we just like wrath cause it was fun to play? i dont play uno cause i need a challenge. i play uno cause i like to play fun games with friends. wrath is the same thing. im not there for the challenge. im there cause it was actually fun to play. that simple. cant wait to see hw much hate that statement brings.
    like i said personal opinion without any facts or talk about game play.. just look shinny cool wrath its the best....

    nothing in wrath got better op'ed classes and specs in pvp
    to much utility and talents added to the game = broken
    welcome to the new world of one shotting
    face rolling raids with dks and apallys
    even professions got weaker compaired to TBC

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    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    This actually tells many things if you look at the full picture and are capable of understanding a simple graph. The same number of subs at the start only means 1 thing, it had the momentum from Wrath, which Wrath in its turn had it from TBC, the difference being that Wrath was able to increase the number of subs while Cata was not.



    Ever since launch WoW has continuously increased in popularity, maintained in through Wrath and even increased slightly towards the end. This momentum was maintained through the launch of Cata and shortly after for the first time ever, it dropped and continued to dropped massively through the expansion while being unable to attract more players than it was losing at any point.
    like i said countless times... wows player bases and primes years were built in classic and TBC easy to see from chart if like you said one can read it.
    wrath sold off the TBC epicness!

    cata still had 10-11 million subs so no the end of wrath did not end wow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    I’m not spinning a single fuckin thing homie, I’m telling you the straight facts.

    I don’t give a single shit whether or not that guy was right or wrong about how many people wrath ‘brought in’ because that’s irrelevant. If we are going by how many people each game brought in then we could argue wod was a great expansion because of how many people bought it, but that doesn’t matter.

    The thing about wotlk is that it HELD the highest amount of subs the game has ever had and it kept it that high and even rose during its time in retail. There wasn’t a single point where wotlk was ever losing more players than it would gain and it held onto those record breaking numbers every single quarter.

    Now cata had a shit load of subs at the beginning. You can say what you want about that and why that was, my personal experience was cata looked fucking amazing from the start, wotlk was a massive hit so it had a ton of people, and cata was a miss or at least not near as close as wotlk.

    There’s no reason cata couldn’t have held onto wotlk-esq sub numbers, but it didn’t. It eventually dropped the sub count to early tbc numbers down from the historical highs wotlk had.

    If your only defense is that cata had 12 million subs at the start, then you don’t have an argument to stand on at all. Look at wod, they had a metric fuck ton of subs spike up at launch but once players ACTUALLY played the expansion they found out it was dog shit.

    Idc if you like cata, idc if cata is your favorite expansion, shit idc if wod is your favorite expansion. That’s not the topic. The topic is which is more popular, and it has been, it is, and it will always be wotlk unless retail WoW somehow gets massively better.

    Facts don’t care about your opinions
    lol my god you take the cake! keep telling yourself 500k in subs matter.. lol!

    The topic is which is more popular, and it has been, it is, and it will always be wotlk unless retail WoW somehow gets massively better
    keep drinking the cool aid boy! sub #'s count they show proof of how much better the game is...

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    like i said personal opinion without any facts or talk about game play.. just look shinny cool wrath its the best....

    nothing in wrath got better op'ed classes and specs in pvp
    to much utility and talents added to the game = broken
    welcome to the new world of one shotting
    face rolling raids with dks and apallys
    even professions got weaker compaired to TBC

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    like i said countless times... wows player bases and primes years were built in classic and TBC easy to see from chart if like you said one can read it.
    wrath sold off the TBC epicness!

    cata still had 10-11 million subs so no the end of wrath did not end wow
    That's just not how it works. If LK was a bad expansion the drop would have started happening during it not in the next expansion.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The topic is which is more popular, and it has been, it is, and it will always be wotlk unless retail WoW somehow gets massively better
    keep drinking the cool aid boy! sub #'s count they show proof of how much better the game is...
    First of all idk why you are so fascinated by the amount of new players as if that matters even remotely. It wasn’t the 500k I am worried about, it’s the 10-12 million subs wotlk kept and sustained throughout its entire life.

    And yes when we are talking about popularity (which is the topic right now) you can 100% say wotlk is better. No question. There is no debate.

    Now if you want to define ‘better’ as your personal preference then go ahead and argue for whatever you want.

    But honestly I don’t give a rats ass what your opinion is. We are talking about objectivity here.

  9. #149
    Pandaren Monk meathead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocksteady 87 View Post
    Literally everything you said in that wrote after "say what you want its your opinion."


    No, you twisted facts using effed up logic, sprinkled in with a healthy dose of complete and utter bullshit. Then flailed your little arms around when actual facts were presented to you.


    It's already been explained, in detail. You refusing to acknowledge it doesn't change a thing. You're just wrong. Objectively wrong. It's not even an opinion, you're just wrong.
    3rd did you play wrath live?no or you admit it by now
    so you cant speak cause you dont have a clue

    just tell me anything other then subs #'s just one fact that made wrath better?
    did ytou like the easiyer raids in wrath?or the easyer to play classes that could do it all but only some...

    do you like the faster pace one shotting of wrath to the slow mana wars of TBC?

    you cant say anything and have not said anything

    i did give you facts like what happened during s5 how 2v2 was scrapped later on and dks clicking there way to end game

    so live has more subs then classic so that means live is better?
    more classes and specs in game and in pvp then every before on live so that also means live is the best? BS!
    enjoy your dks or pally i bet that tank spec you will run in pvp you are leet on it...

  10. #150
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    I honestly don't know the numbers but I believe most of the vanilla legacy realms basically died off since the majority of people moved on to TBC. I would assume the same could be said for TBC to WotLK and most people will move on. That said Blizzard is probably anticipating this and planning at some point to do Season of Mastery for TBC or perhaps 1 or 2 fresh realms for people to start TBC adventure over again on. I would say doing a SoM would be good but I would be most interested in a persistent fresh realm that will existing from now until the shut down of WoW all together; the same could be said for vanilla and ultimately WotLK.

  11. #151
    Pandaren Monk meathead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Hmm info doesn't look wrong, looks like Wow got its 10/11m playerbase in 2008, by the time Wrath was announced maybe?





    - - - Updated - - -



    No expansion is objectively better than another expansion, it's 100% opinion when you say it that way. I can say SL is better than Wrath all day long and not be wrong because it's my opinion. If however we start talking about specifics like sub count or number of people doing some content then you can be objectively wrong but just "SL better than Wrath" cannot be objectively wrong.
    07 TBC already had 10+ million subs...wrath started in November 13, 2008 did it not?
    TBC sold wrath!

    i agree with alot of what your saying about sub #'s its BS and should not matter cause way more goes into that then just "being the best" cause sub #'s like many here try and spin.

    even more so with how little sub count changes from say TBC to cata
    its been 8+ million subs from start of TBC to end of cata

    but wrath fan boys can really only beat the table about sub #'s to show how good wrath was... but leave out so much broken aspects that wrath gave us.
    game play balance ect are what matter more then sub count

    the single most broken and op'ed aspect in wow history is wrath dks even more so s5 dks and pallys.

    that does not = good game play

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefastus View Post
    I also see no reason to do any xpac post Wrath, it went downhill fast from Cata on. Numbers back that up, its when WoW started to bleed subscribers.
    kung fu panda ring a bell?

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    yes I too enjoyed Green Jesus being shoved down my throat by the end of Cataclysm
    Didnt say anything about thrall. Im not into lore, so it doesnt bothered me. 4.3 raid was bad, balancing in 4.3 was bad, nerfing 4.3 dungeons was bad, 4.1 content were just 2 old raids as dungeons, so that was bad.

    But in the end i had the most fun ever in cata, cause i met so many people, had my rbg guild and just had a good time back then with all ky internet Friends and rivals. Something that im missing today.

  13. #153
    Pandaren Monk meathead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    That's just not how it works. If LK was a bad expansion the drop would have started happening during it not in the next expansion.
    wrath did lose subs or do you really think it stayed peaked sub count of 11+mill and not a single 1 stopped playing?many people quit at end of wrath and RS raid... i did myself.

    are you saying the meta for wrath is stun = dead?one shotting?

    WOD had 10 million subs so that better then classic and TBC?

    wrath is where wow started to change for the worst!wrath cata mists wod all kept ed the changing the game for the worst for the most part. rbgs in cata were probably the best thing game play wise blizz did since TBC.

    but i guess scrapping of 2v2 and the removal of wow from mgl means wraths game play was good?
    glad that did not happen in TBC...why?= better balanced and game play!

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    just like the sub count went down in wrath?peak wrath had more subs then the end of wrath...
    This happens not to be the case. WoW's historic peak for active accounts was at the end of Wrath.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  15. #155
    Pandaren Monk meathead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saixilein View Post
    Didnt say anything about thrall. Im not into lore, so it doesnt bothered me. 4.3 raid was bad, balancing in 4.3 was bad, nerfing 4.3 dungeons was bad, 4.1 content were just 2 old raids as dungeons, so that was bad.

    But in the end i had the most fun ever in cata, cause i met so many people, had my rbg guild and just had a good time back then with all ky internet Friends and rivals. Something that im missing today.
    i to love rbgs and was on a pvp server and a pvp/rbgs guild that was super fun!
    cata did have some balance issues at the start but it was way more balanced then wrath for sure.
    if TBC had rbgs it would be almost perfect game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    This happens not to be the case. WoW's historic peak for active accounts was at the end of Wrath.
    might want to look at the graphs in this thread...
    RS raid did not bring in more players
    wrath had sub losses like any time frame of any game does!

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    wrath did lose subs or do you really think it stayed peaked sub count of 11+mill and not a single 1 stopped playing?many people quit at end of wrath and RS raid... i did myself.

    are you saying the meta for wrath is stun = dead?one shotting?

    WOD had 10 million subs so that better then classic and TBC?

    wrath is where wow started to change for the worst!wrath cata mists wod all kept ed the changing the game for the worst for the most part. rbgs in cata were probably the best thing game play wise blizz did since TBC.

    but i guess scrapping of 2v2 and the removal of wow from mgl means wraths game play was good?
    glad that did not happen in TBC...why?= better balanced and game play!
    I’ve just skimmed through how you describe wotlk (especially the pvp parts) and it really is showing just how bad you are at the game if this was your experience in wotlk lol.

    And no wotlk never lost subs during its time. Sure people may have quit and unsubbed, but there were always at least just as much if not more people subbing to it throughout its whole life. You quit during RS, that’s cute, two more people were the subbing brand new to take your place.

    Did cata do that? Mop? Wod? Legion? Nope?

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    might want to look at the graphs in this thread...
    RS raid did not bring in more players
    wrath had sub losses like any time frame of any game does!
    I did. You're obviously wrong. The peak during wrath was right before Cata released.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    wrath did lose subs or do you really think it stayed peaked sub count of 11+mill and not a single 1 stopped playing?many people quit at end of wrath and RS raid... i did myself.

    are you saying the meta for wrath is stun = dead?one shotting?

    WOD had 10 million subs so that better then classic and TBC?

    wrath is where wow started to change for the worst!wrath cata mists wod all kept ed the changing the game for the worst for the most part. rbgs in cata were probably the best thing game play wise blizz did since TBC.

    but i guess scrapping of 2v2 and the removal of wow from mgl means wraths game play was good?
    glad that did not happen in TBC...why?= better balanced and game play!
    Are you really playing dumb or what? Wrath got more people in than it lost, simple as that. Obviously new people came in and older people left. Cataclysm was not able to bring more people than it lost. These are objective facts.

    The reasons don't even matter, it doesn't even matter if it was good or not because that it subjective, but the objective numbers to show that it was the most popular. You not liking the meta of LK does not mean shit, it's just your subjective opinion.

    Also if you look at private servers, LK is the most popular among them, which is also saying something.
    Last edited by kranur; 2022-08-08 at 05:21 PM.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    3rd did you play wrath live?no or you admit it by now
    I didn't realize that question was in the air. Not that it matters in the slightest, but I had been playing since December of 2004.

    just tell me anything other then subs #'s just one fact that made wrath better?
    That the majority of people enjoyed it, as shown in numerous polls.

    You know, in addition to the subscription numbers. Which, hilariously ironically, you tried to use to prove your inane and grossly incorrect point. But of course now that you've been rightly called out, shamed, and humiliated about how wrong you are, they're suddenly off the table, eh? I wonder why that is... Oh right, it proves you wrong. Again.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    Are you really playing dumb or what? Wrath got more people in than it lost, simple as that. Obviously new people came in and older people left. Cataclysm was not able to bring more people than it lost. These are objective facts.

    The reasons don't even matter, it doesn't even matter if it was good or not because that it subjective, but the objective numbers to show that it was the most popular. You not liking the meta of LK does not mean shit, it's just your subjective opinion.

    Also if you look at private servers, LK is the most popular among them, which is also saying something.
    I’m going to extend on your last point too. They aren’t just the most popular, it’s not even remotely close to which one is more popular. Everyone remembers how ‘epic’ and ‘massive’ nostalrious was right? That server only held a fraction of the most massive wotlk private holds and has been holding for literally over 10 years now. Vanilla private servers are the second most played, followed by tbc (which takes a massive drop in players who played these when it was relevant), and then the other expansions have always been barren. As in like you’re lucky if 20 people are online on the whole server barren.

    I’ve played these servers forever (still play on the wotlk pvp one), and they have been packed TO THE RIM forever now.

    Anyone arguing that wotlk isn’t the most popular expansion has absolutely no clue what they are talking about. You don’t have to like the expansion to acknowledge that, it’s ok to he a hipster and like the most “controversial” expansions.

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