Are people really okay with the "new" race restrictions?

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Limiting a race to one class is silly. ESPECIALLY when that new class lacks a melee/tank specc.
Do I agree that we're oversaturated with melee? Yes. Absolutely. A new class that focuses on range/healing is a brilliant idea, but locking a brand new race to that one class is a mistake. It's like adding a brand new spell that does ultra mega damage to mage, but only gnome specific-mages can get it.

One limitation is quite enough for me. Making something double-extra special is a mistake.

[i3ackero]

If every race could be every class, no race and class would keep their culture at all. All would be generic and dull. When Draenei could only by Shamans in Alliance, it was very unique for them. Maybe limited for players, but shamans culture were well-treated then. For me it was weird at the beginning that all races could be DK's when they were first introduced, but okay, every race can be dead, so every can be DK's and Arthas wasn't racist as soon as you are dead :P Same for Monks, even if I understood that all races could learn beying monks, their philosophy just didn't work well for some races loud (Dwarves), agressive (Orcs) and hermetic (Night Elves) cultures. Now I got used to it, and for Drathyr and Evoker you also will.

And you really need to admit, that some combinations, that we even have already hardly makes sense, and requires a lot of lore-spinning to explain them leading by Lightforged Draenei Death Knights.

Let Azeroth races cultures be themselves, not constantly learn new practices from each other. It is like azerothian globalism, that's true. But it could kill a fantasy.

[Gelannerai]

Personally I’m fine with the Dracthyr and Evoker being inseparable, as ostensibly there’s lore tied to the reason.

That being said, there should be a tank and melee dps spec for the class. Melee fans who want to play as a Dracthyr are left out in the cold as it stands now. Let the class have four specs a la Druids.

[FossilFree]

I really want them to reconsider the armor restrictions in dragon form. If the goal is you are a dragon and the dragon form is your real self, then your real self is the one that should be showing the armor. Without showing it, it's like the dragon form is nothing more than a druid shapeshift and your real form is actually the visage form, which is counter to the stated design goals of feeling like the dragon is the race, not the visage.

Also, I want to be able to see my armor because it is my accomplishment. Visage forms are cool and all but you don't fight in them and it isn't your true self. If anything the visage is the shapeshift, so armor should show in dragon form but not the visage form. Visage form should have the generic barber shop armor, not dragon form.

I can accept not being able to use a cloak or boots, but those should be the only two armor slots that are hidden on dracthyr. Helms, chestpieces, leggings, and gloves should all show in addition to the shoulders, belt, and tabard they currently offer. At the very least they should be able to use chestpieces, as then the shoulders/tunic/belt could look like one continuous piece of armor protecting the torso. If tabards can cover the chest, why can't armor? It's all a very pointless restriction.

[Fahrenheit]

I really want them to reconsider the armor restrictions in dragon form. If the goal is you are a dragon and the dragon form is your real self, then your real self is the one that should be showing the armor. Without showing it, it's like the dragon form is nothing more than a druid shapeshift and your real form is actually the visage form, which is counter to the stated design goals of feeling like the dragon is the race, not the visage.

Also, I want to be able to see my armor because it is my accomplishment. Visage forms are cool and all but you don't fight in them and it isn't your true self. If anything the visage is the shapeshift, so armor should show in dragon form but not the visage form. Visage form should have the generic barber shop armor, not dragon form.

I can accept not being able to use a cloak or boots, but those should be the only two armor slots that are hidden on dracthyr. Helms, chestpieces, leggings, and gloves should all show in addition to the shoulders, belt, and tabard they currently offer. At the very least they should be able to use chestpieces, as then the shoulders/tunic/belt could look like one continuous piece of armor protecting the torso. If tabards can cover the chest, why can't armor? It's all a very pointless restriction.

Yeah, the seriously reduced trasmog/armor in dragon form was one of several punches in the gut to my excitement level during the reveal and following round tables.

PLAYABLE DRAGONS!!
Hype level 100, totally resubbing!
Oh, they kinda look like shit…
Oh, you can only be an Evoker…
Oh, Evoker is only heals/ranged DPS…
Oh, you cant even cover up how they look with transmog…

It was like I could physically feel my excitement in the expansion (at least in terms of the new race) die as the round tables went on and new stuff was revealed.

[FossilFree]

Yeah, the seriously reduced trasmog/armor in dragon form was one of several punches in the gut to my excitement level during the reveal and following round tables.

PLAYABLE DRAGONS!!
Hype level 100, totally resubbing!
Oh, they kinda look like shit…
Oh, you can only be an Evoker…
Oh, Evoker is only heals/ranged DPS…
Oh, you cant even cover up how they look with transmog…

It was like I could physically feel my excitement in the expansion (at least in terms of the new race) die as the round tables went on and new stuff was revealed.

I got another for you, dracthyr can dragonride but can't use upgraded dragonriding! Why not just let them use both their own dragonriding and the upgraded dragons? Why limit choice? I could see myself using the racial dragonriding when farming nodes or killing mobs, and then switching to my upgraded dragon for longer flights.

Like they have this great idea and then the restriction police come in and chip chip chip away at it, chipping the fun with it.

[sneedlewoods]

It does make sense for only Dracthyr to be Evokers, since it's not really an Evoker. It's a dragon. The class and race are both dragon.

But it doesn't make sense for them to not also be warriors. It's probably a design thing. They'd have to make sure all types of armor fit etc. It needs to work with all the other class animations. It's just the lazy way out.

[Selah]

Okay, but that doesn't alter the point that a player is more apt to play a concept based on a popular lore figure, than some completely new concept they've never experienced before. In short, your average player is more apt to choose a Wrathion based class, than a class based on Spirit Tauren guy.

You have no idea, that would depend on how well the new class is developed and how strong of a class fantasy it has. Not to mention, Spirit Tauren guy would be expanding the existing lore in the game versus being a Wrathion character.

Except those examples were simply expressions of lore within those individual races. Kul'tiran Shaman for example are just the playable version of Tide Sages.

No, Kul'Tiran Shaman are full fledged shaman. This is best demonstrated when you're unlocking the allied race and you're working with the Kul'tiran woman who puts the ship together. She outright says that she's always just had the ability to talk with the elements and call on them. She has earth and fire elementals just working for her. BfA went out of the way to show that there was a difference between the Tide Sages and the Shaman. I know there was talk of making a class skin for Shaman to have Tide Sages but that's not the same thing.

That's your interpretation. Gameplay wise, a player will instantly associate a standard race transforming into a creature as a Druid. It doesn't quite work that way with Dracthyr because we're accustomed to characters like Wrathion and Alexstraza. Heck, Alexstraza is on the cover of the expansion going from humanoid to dragon form.

How can you possibly know this? You may personally see shapeshifting as a unique thing to Druids but it's not. Both Ghost Wolf and the Worgen transformation are unique from Druids. What about Soul Shape? Are you insinuating you can't tell the difference between the various forms? Are you saying you won't be able to tell the difference between standard Druid transformations and a dragon?

Except its not the same result because spectral tails and wings don't have the same effect as being an actual draconic character. It's the same reason Ghost Wolf in the Shaman class isn't interpreted as the same as Bear of Feral form in the Druid class. And frankly, how far will this spectral stuff go? Would we also shoot spectral flames from our mouths? We should also acknowledge that there's no way such a concept could encapsulate the aspects like the Dracthyr do

You're right, they won't. And that's okay if it doesn't encapsulate it like that Dracthyr does. BE Paladins don't capture the fantasy of being a Paladin nearly as strongly as Human Paladins do, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the BE Paladins or having BE Paladins. Besides that, it would only serve to strengthen the Dracthyr's hold on class - isn't that what you're wanting?

See above, it is not a solution. In fact, I would argue that such a design would be looked upon unfavorably.

See above. You do not have the ability to make the determination that the design would be looked upon unfavorably.

Uh, of course the team worries about lore. That's why we're getting a Dracthyr Evoker and not a Dragonsworn. That's why Demon Hunters are still locked to 2 races. That's why the Monk class is Pandaren based and has brews in all of their specs. Lore matters.

The team worries about lore until it clashes with design intent or philosophy, or the budget, or a dungeon, or anything else in the game and it is the first thing to get cut, changed, or altered. Like I said before, most other games and I would agree.

Demon Hunters are still locked to two races because of the massive amount of investment Blizzard would have to do for new skins for all the races they were added to. They explicitly states that DH is a result of eating a demon's heart. There is zero things binding it exclusively to elves other than the fact that Illidan is their leader and an elf. Strictly speaking in terms of lore, there is no reason why a Human can't eat a demon's heart and achieve the same result.

Further, since Blizzard is actively advertising the Dracthyr Evoker as WoW's first race/class combo as one of the expansion's new features, they're all-in.

And? This doesn't mean they're locked to it. They absolutely can and should change course. It harms nothing.

Well that's sort of my point; There are Worgen players who wish they could actually BE a werewolf, not just essentially be a human wearing a wolf costume. Blizzard showing Genn running around doing wolf stuff has only made this situation worse, and it probably explains the dropping number of Worgen players. The race simply DOESN'T live up to the fantasy.

The Dracthyr (thus far) don't have that problem.

Because you want a *class* to play and werewolf is not a class available in the game. You're frustrated that race isn't a class. Just because you're frustrated with that doesn't mean there's a problem with Worgen, that just means there's another niche Blizzard can fill with a class later down the line.

"There are dozens of us! DOZENS!"

The simple reality is that what you describe would completely ruin the concept of the Dracthyr Evoker. For all of our sakes, let us hope it never comes to pass.

No, let's be honest about what you're saying. It would make you personally feel like your Dracthyr Evoker will be less unique because some other race can do it too. That is not the same. Why should I be punished for wanting to play Evoker differently than you?

Uh, it would TOTALLY invalidate the Dracthyr and the entire concept. Why even create the Dracthyr race in the first place if you can just attach random spirit appendages to existing races?

Why even create Night Elves, Blood Elves, Void Elves, and Nightborne when High Elves exist? Because they bring a unique flavor to the fantasy. I mean, using that reasoning, there should be none of the allied races because they're just variants on already existing races. Save the Vulpera. Do these variants invalidate the existence of the others? Of course not, and it'd be absolutely absurd to sit here and pretend that Night Elves existing steps on the toes of High Elves. Again, just because you personally would feel like that doesn't make it the case.

Beyond that, Blizzard is missing a great opportunity to have their own version of a playable Dragonborn race in the game with the Dracthyr.

See above. Also Kul'Tiran Shaman are not a unique class. They are simply variations of an existing broader class. Shaman as a whole are based on heroes like Thrall and Vol'Jin, and Kul'tirans are simply another race that embraced the elements.

Exactly! This same reasoning can be applied to Evoker. I'm glad you see what I'm saying.

Yes, and there's a BIG reason why these barriers exist; It is to increase immersion and flavor, and allow the player to better immerse themselves in the experience. So in terms of immersion, this is a big step forward for Blizzard, and the RP community is going to go nuts for it. If we simply let everyone be every race and class, it would certainly give us more options, but it would also water-down what makes the game unique and interesting.

The RP community is going to love the Dracthyr, or any new race for that matter, regardless.

How is frustrating players with arbitrary restrictions immersive? The frustration only serves to pull players out of their game more. How is forcing players into specific character types unique or interesting? The answer is, it's not. I'm glad you're enjoying it, but you cannot forget that there are other people who play the game too and pay their sub just like you do who don't enjoy that combination of race and class. Again, it hurts nothing to open up race class combinations. How many people are around today lamenting the fact that Dwarves ended up getting access to more races?

But, I think to help better illustrate my point I'm going to point to another game that has this restriction. In Tera there is a class known as Reaper. It plays about like it sounds with scythes and dark magics. The class itself looks really cool. The problem is, they're exclusive to a race in the game known as the Elin. The problem with the Elin is that they're a race of 10 year old girls. That's all they are as a people. While I get that is a thing in the anime/manga circles, that is something that is deeply uncomfortable for a lot of people outside of those circles. The issue is with this, people are choosing to avoid playing something they would normally enjoy playing because of the racial restriction. While the Dracthyr aren't as so egregious in their ability to make people uncomfortable, there is still that effect of putting people off because of the restriction. A restriction that doesn't have to exist for any reason.

I prefer flavorful soup with select ingredients over watered-down soup stuffed with everything in the kitchen.

Okay, but the problem with your metaphor here is that your soup (the player character in this situation) is made from the same set of ingredients. Your race, class, and faction. Background too if you're as inclined as to waste time on TRP3 like I am. Dracthyr is a race, Evoker is a class, and they get to choose their faction. Even if it was Gnome, Evoker, Alliance, it would still be equally flavorful soup. It might be a version of soup you personally don't enjoy but that doesn't mean your chicken noodle soup (or whatever you enjoy) is less valid or enjoyable to you. You don't go to a restaurant and demand that they only serve chicken noodle soup to all their customers, so why are you doing that here?

[Teriz]

You have no idea, that would depend on how well the new class is developed and how strong of a class fantasy it has. Not to mention, Spirit Tauren guy would be expanding the existing lore in the game versus being a Wrathion character.

I can assure you that a class based on WoW characters will outperform classes not based on WoW character. Which is why Blizzard has ALWAYS brought out expansion classes based on WoW characters. The Dracthyr Evoker class is based on the very popular characters of Alexstraza and Wrathion. "Spirit Dragon dude" wouldn't have a chance.

No, Kul'Tiran Shaman are full fledged shaman. This is best demonstrated when you're unlocking the allied race and you're working with the Kul'tiran woman who puts the ship together. She outright says that she's always just had the ability to talk with the elements and call on them. She has earth and fire elementals just working for her. BfA went out of the way to show that there was a difference between the Tide Sages and the Shaman. I know there was talk of making a class skin for Shaman to have Tide Sages but that's not the same thing.

I never said Kul'tiran weren't full fledged Shaman. I said that Kul'tiran have access to the Shaman class lorewise via the Tide Sages. Blizzard obviously decided that Kul'tirans were going to be Shaman during early development and created Tide Sages to justify it. They do it all the time.

How can you possibly know this? You may personally see shapeshifting as a unique thing to Druids but it's not. Both Ghost Wolf and the Worgen transformation are unique from Druids. What about Soul Shape? Are you insinuating you can't tell the difference between the various forms? Are you saying you won't be able to tell the difference between standard Druid transformations and a dragon?

There's a difference between transforming into a beast/monster/creature to perform a role, and shapeshifting into a beast/monster/whatever for transportation purposes. Having an Orc transform into a dragon to fill a role steps all over Druids, and people will instantly draw comparisons.

You're right, they won't. And that's okay if it doesn't encapsulate it like that Dracthyr does. BE Paladins don't capture the fantasy of being a Paladin nearly as strongly as Human Paladins do, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the BE Paladins or having BE Paladins. Besides that, it would only serve to strengthen the Dracthyr's hold on class - isn't that what you're wanting?

Not true. You give other races the ability to do draconic abilities and feats and you remove the purpose of having a Dracthyr in the first place. The Dracthyr were created because there was no existing WoW race that could emulate draconic abilities. You're saying forget all of that and just have an Orc sprout a spirit wings and a tail out its butt and do dragon stuff. It's nonsense.

See above. You do not have the ability to make the determination that the design would be looked upon unfavorably.

Again, envision an Orc with draconic spirit wings, a spirit tail, and flying around spitting spirit dragon fire out of its mouth, and you tell me how it would be viewed.

Laughable would be charitable.

The team worries about lore until it clashes with design intent or philosophy, or the budget, or a dungeon, or anything else in the game and it is the first thing to get cut, changed, or altered. Like I said before, most other games and I would agree.

Demon Hunters are still locked to two races because of the massive amount of investment Blizzard would have to do for new skins for all the races they were added to. They explicitly states that DH is a result of eating a demon's heart. There is zero things binding it exclusively to elves other than the fact that Illidan is their leader and an elf. Strictly speaking in terms of lore, there is no reason why a Human can't eat a demon's heart and achieve the same result.

No, Demon Hunters are still locked to two races because it makes sense lorewise to keep it that way. No new lore has emerged that justifies Demon Hunters expanding beyond BE and NE. And yeah, in terms of lore, it was established that only elves can survive the DH ritual, and even still, quite a few still died. So no, humans can't become Illidari Demon Hunters.

And? This doesn't mean they're locked to it. They absolutely can and should change course. It harms nothing.

Uh, that's exactly what it means. You don't push something like that as a feature and then dump it at the drop of the hat. They're quite proud to have merged this class and race together. Hell, Ion was gushing about it in his deep dive during the announcement.

Because you want a *class* to play and werewolf is not a class available in the game. You're frustrated that race isn't a class. Just because you're frustrated with that doesn't mean there's a problem with Worgen, that just means there's another niche Blizzard can fill with a class later down the line.

I don't play Worgen, and I could care less about them. However, I am aware that there are Worgen players who wish they could fight like their faction leader. The poster Jellmoo is one of them.

No, let's be honest about what you're saying. It would make you personally feel like your Dracthyr Evoker will be less unique because some other race can do it too. That is not the same. Why should I be punished for wanting to play Evoker differently than you?

If you don't want to play an Evoker as a Dracthyr, you don't want to play an Evoker. The Evoker class is literally designed to emulate the gameplay of a dragon. There's zero reason for non-draconic races to be one.

Why even create Night Elves, Blood Elves, Void Elves, and Nightborne when High Elves exist? Because they bring a unique flavor to the fantasy

And there's plenty of classes for them to play as that completely emulates their unique racial fantasies.

Exactly! This same reasoning can be applied to Evoker. I'm glad you see what I'm saying.

Actually it can't. Shaman aren't designed to be racially specific. In fact their background as a class in WC3 was extremely multiracial in focus.

Evokers on the other hand are designed specifically for a dragon race.

[Syegfryed]

If the story behind them is that they are one class/race then there isn’t an issue at all. That’s their story. Just like when back in the day when nightelves and Tauren were the only Druids. It was okay. If the story changes later then so be it, but if that’s not their plan then there isn’t an issue

If the story behind only serves the purpose of pissing off players because they got lazy in the development, instead of doing what they wished/asked for, there is a lot of issues on it

[Teriz]

I really want them to reconsider the armor restrictions in dragon form. If the goal is you are a dragon and the dragon form is your real self, then your real self is the one that should be showing the armor. Without showing it, it's like the dragon form is nothing more than a druid shapeshift and your real form is actually the visage form, which is counter to the stated design goals of feeling like the dragon is the race, not the visage.

Also, I want to be able to see my armor because it is my accomplishment. Visage forms are cool and all but you don't fight in them and it isn't your true self. If anything the visage is the shapeshift, so armor should show in dragon form but not the visage form. Visage form should have the generic barber shop armor, not dragon form.

I can accept not being able to use a cloak or boots, but those should be the only two armor slots that are hidden on dracthyr. Helms, chestpieces, leggings, and gloves should all show in addition to the shoulders, belt, and tabard they currently offer. At the very least they should be able to use chestpieces, as then the shoulders/tunic/belt could look like one continuous piece of armor protecting the torso. If tabards can cover the chest, why can't armor? It's all a very pointless restriction.

Except Dragons don't wear armor in dragon form. Take Kalecgos for example;




We're just following their example.

[Jastall]

Except Dragons don't wear armor in dragon form. Take Kalecgos for example;

We're just following their example.

Deathwing: Am I a joke to you?

Besides, the dragons we ride in the expansion are confirmed to have armor pieces as potential customization. The Dacthyr models not being rigged to wear equipment is a far more plausible reason as to why they use it than any lore excuse.

[Biomega]

"Can't do it, IT'S THE LORE."

"What lore?"

"You know, the lore we just came up with a week ago."

"So can't you just... change the lore? It's not even released yet."

"No can do. IT'S THE LORE."

[Teriz]

Deathwing: Am I a joke to you?

Deathwing wore armor plates to hold his body together. Most dragons don't wear anything other than a few adornments. Take Wrathion for example;



Bye bye armor and sword. Also notice how Dracthyr-like his dragon form is.....

Besides, the dragons we ride in the expansion are confirmed to have armor pieces as potential customization. The Dacthyr models not being rigged to wear equipment is a far more plausible reason as to why they use it than any lore excuse.

Blizzard is just following the lore, while still giving players the option to wear a little bit of armor if they want to.

[Syegfryed]

Bye bye armor and sword. Also notice how Dracthyr-like his dragon form is.....

Thats because he is a giant ass dragon, unlike dracthyr

And his form is nothing like dracthyr form, even if you picked a rigged image he is way more bulky, his neck is ticker and even ahve less amun of fingers.

[Teriz]

Thats because he is a giant ass dragon, unlike dracthyr

And his form is nothing like dracthyr form, even if you picked a rigged image he is way more bulky, his neck is ticker and even ahve less amun of fingers.

I didn't pick a rigged image. That image is from Blizzard.

Also Dracthyr are supposedly huge. As tall, if not taller than Tauren.

[Syegfryed]

I didn't pick a rigged image. That image is from Blizzard.

"Guys, it looks just like Dracthyr" /s

Also Dracthyr are supposedly huge. As tall, if not taller than Tauren.

Thats entirely your headcanon looking at the video from, Taurens and zandalari are supposed to be way taller in the lore.

They will be on pair or less than then because they need to fit on places.

[Rayr]

If the story behind only serves the purpose of pissing off players because they got lazy in the development, instead of doing what they wished/asked for, there is a lot of issues on it

I dont think anyone with a rational thinking mind is upset.

- - - Updated - - -

"Guys, it looks just like Dracthyr" /s



Thats entirely your headcanon looking at the video from, Taurens and zandalari are supposed to be way taller in the lore.

They will be on pair or less than then because they need to fit on places.

You know whats funny? Is that if he was standing on his hind legs we would actually look pretty close to one

[Iheartnathanos]

It isn’t a new race - it is a hero class. IMO, this is what DH and DK should have been the the start: their own race/class combo. DH was basically this anyway. I always wish DKs were just undead humans anyway, because that’s what they were in WC3.

[Rayr]

It isn’t a new race - it is a hero class. IMO, this is what DH and DK should have been the the start: their own race/class combo. DH was basically this anyway.

100%, outside of a couple of races that turned into deathknights, most deathknights were in fact just humans. God forbid we get some actual fantasy gameplay in the game LOL.