Page 11 of 32 FirstFirst ...
9
10
11
12
13
21
... LastLast
  1. #201
    The inseparable nature of Dracthyr and Evoker doesn't bother me anymore than Draenei being unable to choose to be a Warlock. Besides, if the Evoker class turns out to be "meh", I'll be sticking with my Demon Hunter anyway. He's done me proud in BfA and Shadowlands - two sub-par expansions.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr View Post
    100%, outside of a couple of races that turned into deathknights, most deathknights were in fact just humans. God forbid we get some actual fantasy gameplay in the game LOL.
    They were the corrupted nobility of Lordaeron. It always sh*t me off that draenei, who’d been on Azeroth for like two seconds, could be DKs and cultures who didn’t even have knightly virtues like tauren and gnomes could be too.

  3. #203
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    15,722
    Quote Originally Posted by Iheartnathanos View Post
    It isn’t a new race - it is a hero class. IMO, this is what DH and DK should have been the the start: their own race/class combo. DH was basically this anyway. I always wish DKs were just undead humans anyway, because that’s what they were in WC3.
    thank god they didn't do, as death knight being able to pick any race was fucking sweet.

    TBack in that time the devs cared about player enjoyment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Iheartnathanos View Post
    They were the corrupted nobility of Lordaeron. It always sh*t me off that draenei, who’d been on Azeroth for like two seconds, could be DKs and cultures who didn’t even have knightly virtues like tauren and gnomes could be too.
    Thats literally because the death knights are the ones raised by arthas, after all those races were already in the game. There is no reason for you to have "knightly virtues" as you can see, the Dks aren't rly chivalrous

    And people want to claim lore highground.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    thank god they didn't do, as death knight being able to pick any race was fucking sweet.

    TBack in that time the devs cared about player enjoyment.
    You are the type of person wow listened to in order to get us into this mess of a game we have now, 100%. Forget any sort of rpg aspect of the game and just add all the bells and whistles you want in order to please your needs. Forget the lore and what it means in the game and just add 'cool looking stuff'. This type of behavior is what gets us terrible story telling and a bad environment.

  5. #205
    The Lightbringer Nathreim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    3,012
    Its fine. Any dragon race would obviously have way better innate abilities than most classes.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    thank god they didn't do, as death knight being able to pick any race was fucking sweet.

    TBack in that time the devs cared about player enjoyment.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Thats literally because the death knights are the ones raised by arthas, after all those races were already in the game. There is no reason for you to have "knightly virtues" as you can see, the Dks aren't rly chivalrous

    And people want to claim lore highground.
    The whole point of death knights was that Arthas was twisting those knightly virtues - everything noble, ignoble. Just like his path. That’s the fantasy and the lore. Giving that to everyone makes no sense. From the manual:

    Death knights were once heroic, virtuous defenders of humanity. However, they were corrupted by the subtle machinations of the Lich King and lured to his dark standard.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Iheartnathanos View Post
    The whole point of death knights was that Arthas was twisting those knightly virtues - everything noble, ignoble. Just like his path. That’s the fantasy and the lore. Giving that to everyone makes no sense. From the manual:

    Death knights were once heroic, virtuous defenders of humanity. However, they were corrupted by the subtle machinations of the Lich King and lured to his dark standard.
    Yup, the only other races that would make sense to be deathknights are undead (because the original undead were literally humans raised by Arthas), worgen (which are humans who are cursed), and maaaaybe orcs just because I believe the OG deathknights were orc souls put into human form so I guess it wouldn’t be that much of a stretch to say maybe they could have reclaimed their original body somehow.

    But fucking panda and dranei deathknights is just fucking silly. They had to ‘rewrite’ the lore to do this and it was dumb AF

  8. #208
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    404
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    True as to your first line, that's a good point.

    As to the second, I don't see that as significantly more egregious than a huge beefy Orc becoming a squishy wimp who can't even beat a murloc in melee just because he's a Priest or Warlock. Classes have always overridden racial characteristics to an extent, you could easily just handwave that Dracthyr warriors, or hunters or whatnot are just better at those classes than as their natural Evoker selves, and PCs are never allowed to multiclass in any capacity so gamewise they're just Warriors or whatever now. Besides class changes are hardly unheard of in lore, see those Priests becoming Paladins between the First and Second War or Orcish shamans transitioning to Warlocks when the Horde was young.

    It doesn't affect me much, if I make a Dracthyr it's going to be an Evoker anyway. But I still think that a one-race-one-class deal is just too niche.
    I wholeheartedly agree that Dracthyr needs more options when it comes to bulk as I want to be a stronk dragon regardless of being a caster or not (just like an Orc Warlock still looks like a beefcake), but on the class side it's a bit different to me. Ofc Blizzard decides the lore with Dracthyr but for now at least the lore is that all of them are created with Evoker powers, whereas an Orc might just not be very good at handling two giant axes at once but real good at fel magic so they train there.

    I consider it more akin to a Death Knight deciding to not use the unholy powers they know by heart and just hit stuff with their axe instead.

    All Blizz would ofc need to do is detach the Evoker class toolkit from the race and the Dracthyr would be free to choose, but I'm kinda on board with letting Blizz make a race where its class is taking full blown advantage of their racial traits. Kinda like lorewise an Orc Warrior SHOULD be significantly physically stronger than a Human Warrior, but Blizz can't exactly give Orc Warriors more strength or let them have Titan's Grip alone etc. Worgens not being able to use their worgen form's powers is another example.

  9. #209
    Yes I am ok with the restriction. This is an RPG after all. Convenience should not trump everything.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Feuerbart View Post
    Yes I am ok with the restriction. This is an RPG after all. Convenience should not trump everything.
    No I am not ok with the restriction. This is a GAME after all. Lore should not trump everything.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post
    Personally I’m fine with the Dracthyr and Evoker being inseparable, as ostensibly there’s lore tied to the reason.

    That being said, there should be a tank and melee dps spec for the class. Melee fans who want to play as a Dracthyr are left out in the cold as it stands now. Let the class have four specs a la Druids.
    Are you listening to yourself?

    Tanks and melee being left out in the cold???

    We haven't had a single ranged dps spec in 18 years yet you guy are whining about being left out of 1 class, I mean seriously tank/melee players need to get over it.

  12. #212
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    404
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr View Post
    Yup, the only other races that would make sense to be deathknights are undead (because the original undead were literally humans raised by Arthas), worgen (which are humans who are cursed), and maaaaybe orcs just because I believe the OG deathknights were orc souls put into human form so I guess it wouldn’t be that much of a stretch to say maybe they could have reclaimed their original body somehow.

    But fucking panda and dranei deathknights is just fucking silly. They had to ‘rewrite’ the lore to do this and it was dumb AF
    The player DKs are Argent Dawn members killed by the Scourge and raised by Arthas. Considering the Argent Dawn took in any race into their fold it's 100% plausible for any Vanilla/TBC race to be one of those DKs.

    And the other races got their own explanation in BfA with Bolvar, so this headcanon of yours with knightly valour only applying to humans is weird. (Edit: well not your headcanon but the one of the guy you're agreeing with I suppose )

  13. #213
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    15,722
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr View Post
    You are the type of person wow listened to in order to get us into this mess of a game we have now, 100%. Forget any sort of rpg aspect of the game and just add all the bells and whistles you want in order to please your needs. Forget the lore and what it means in the game and just add 'cool looking stuff'. This type of behavior is what gets us terrible story telling and a bad environment.
    "forget the lore" sure, like after MOP the devs care about the lore, hilarious

    Like, where is my playable ogre if you think they care about the lore? such bullshit

    Quote Originally Posted by Iheartnathanos View Post
    The whole point of death knights was that Arthas was twisting those knightly virtues - everything noble, ignoble. Just like his path. That’s the fantasy and the lore. Giving that to everyone makes no sense. From the manual:
    Nope, it was not the whole point,.

    Arthas wanted a army of powerful servants when he woke up and start raising powerful people in order to dominate the world, if he sticj with this nonsense he would have nothing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr View Post
    Yup, the only other races that would make sense to be deathknights are undead (because the original undead were literally humans raised by Arthas), worgen (which are humans who are cursed), and maaaaybe orcs just because I believe the OG deathknights were orc souls put into human form so I guess it wouldn’t be that much of a stretch to say maybe they could have reclaimed their original body somehow.

    But fucking panda and dranei deathknights is just fucking silly. They had to ‘rewrite’ the lore to do this and it was dumb AF
    The face of people who claim "lore" when say such nonsense, lmao.

    Pandaren were raised as DK by bolvar after the third war, there was nothing to "re-write"

  14. #214
    Don't really care tbh, dragons are aspects of the elements after all, rather thank simple mortals who just learn it. My hope is that would give them mage and warrior to play I guess.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    "forget the lore" sure, like after MOP the devs care about the lore, hilarious

    Like, where is my playable ogre if you think they care about the lore? such bullshit



    Nope, it was not the whole point,.

    Arthas wanted a army of powerful servants when he woke up and start raising powerful people in order to dominate the world, if he sticj with this nonsense he would have nothing.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The face of people who claim "lore" when say such nonsense, lmao.

    Pandaren were raised as DK by bolvar after the third war, there was nothing to "re-write"
    Lol, sticking with his nonsense is literally why he failed. Arthas could have scourged all life without any issues - but he lured heroes to Northrend to corrupt them and prove that anyone could fall like him. It’s why he turns up and doesn’t kill the player so many times. He also allows DKs to retain their minds just so he can prove that it was their failings, not his domination, that led them down this path.

    But I mean, you go on dismissing people who want to see game mechanics reflect lore.l and enjoy your fluffy DKs.
    Last edited by Iheartnathanos; 2022-04-25 at 09:07 AM.

  16. #216
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    15,722
    Quote Originally Posted by Iheartnathanos View Post
    Lol, sticking with his nonsense is literally why he failed. Arthas could have scourged all life without any issues - but he lured heroes to Northrend to corrupt them and prove that anyone could fall like him. It’s why he turns up and doesn’t kill the player so many times.
    Im sure without sheer force of numbers he would do much better

    But I mean, you go on dismissing people who want to see game mechanics reflect lore.
    And if we wanted to see lore reflected into game mechanics?

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantique View Post
    The player DKs are Argent Dawn members killed by the Scourge and raised by Arthas. Considering the Argent Dawn took in any race into their fold it's 100% plausible for any Vanilla/TBC race to be one of those DKs.

    And the other races got their own explanation in BfA with Bolvar, so this headcanon of yours with knightly valour only applying to humans is weird. (Edit: well not your headcanon but the one of the guy you're agreeing with I suppose )
    Yeah you’re responding to the wrong guy, I understand all the retconned stories, I just said they are dumb af

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    "forget the lore" sure, like after MOP the devs care about the lore, hilarious

    Like, where is my playable ogre if you think they care about the lore? such bullshit



    Nope, it was not the whole point,.

    Arthas wanted a army of powerful servants when he woke up and start raising powerful people in order to dominate the world, if he sticj with this nonsense he would have nothing.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The face of people who claim "lore" when say such nonsense, lmao.

    Pandaren were raised as DK by bolvar after the third war, there was nothing to "re-write"
    If the story has to be retconned in order to make pandaren dks make sense, that’s rewriting the lore. When Bolvar took the throne he wasn’t going to doing any of that stuff, but furries insisted they wanted their panda dks and blizzard caved.

    So yeah that’s rewriting lore.

  18. #218
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Dragon Isles
    Posts
    23,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post


    "Guys, it looks just like Dracthyr" /s
    Just on four legs instead of two.

    Thats entirely your headcanon looking at the video from, Taurens and zandalari are supposed to be way taller in the lore.

    They will be on pair or less than then because they need to fit on places.
    No, they could actually be taller because they don’t have armor, weapon, and mount concerns.

  19. #219
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    15,722
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr View Post
    Yeah you’re responding to the wrong guy, I understand all the retconned stories, I just said they are dumb af

    - - - Updated - - -



    If the story has to be retconned in order to make pandaren dks make sense, that’s rewriting the lore. When Bolvar took the throne he wasn’t going to doing any of that stuff, but furries insisted they wanted their panda dks and blizzard caved.

    So yeah that’s rewriting lore.
    Except they didn't retconed shit to make pandarens DKs? the pandarens DKs were made by Bolvar After BfA and before shadowlands.

    And he literally told us why he did that, because the Jailer and the danger he sensed coming from the shadowlands, thats not a retcon or rewriting lore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Just on four legs instead of two.
    Nope, he is way bulky and thicker his snout is different, his skull is larger, he have his teeth coming out of his mouth and ahve the right amount of fingers in his members

    No, they could actually be taller because they don’t have armor, weapon, and mount concerns.
    They still need to fit into places regardless.

  20. #220
    If anything, we need more race restrictions not less. Only races from the Eastern Kingdoms should have been able to play DK. Their approach to Demon Hunters was a rare win.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •