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  1. #481
    Yes, because I'm fine with a lore justification for restricted classes for a few expansions. The lore works better when newly discovered races, especially those created for a single purpose, aren't instantly the same classes as we have. When they grow into it over the years of being exposed to new cultures and ideas, I like that a lot more. A tauren priest wouldn't have been as fun as the justification that they and tauren paladins are a form of Sun Druid.

    I'm also okay with the restrictions for Evoker/Dracthyr because it just makes it easier and quicker for them to put out content and tbh I'd rather take something that works with some short-term restrictions over nothing at this point.

  2. #482
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    There is lore being broken if a dragon class does anything other than use dragon abilities
    This is not "lore being broken" no one ever said that, this is just a nonsensical restriction that serves no purpose other than their laziness for not makingthe dragon model to use weapons and armor.
    whats the point in being that race at all if you dont have dragon powers,
    The point of the race is being the race, not the "Op magic powers they are suppose to ahve" thats why this restriction and the design behind is bad.

    you have no logic in any of your arguments.
    Says the guy who think blizzard don't listem to any feedback, any feedback is useless and they magically know everything that is best for the game, and any change is coincidental.

    Dont need to provide any proof
    Let me correct you again, you don't have proof, obviously.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    This is not "lore being broken" no one ever said that, this is just a nonsensical restriction that serves no purpose other than their laziness for not makingthe dragon model to use weapons and armor.


    The point of the race is being the race, not the "Op magic powers they are suppose to ahve" thats why this restriction and the design behind is bad.



    Says the guy who think blizzard don't listem to any feedback, any feedback is useless and they magically know everything that is best for the game, and any change is coincidental.



    Let me correct you again, you don't have proof, obviously.
    No in WoW there should be plenty of race and class restrictions, thats the lore of the WoW universe that not everyone can learn everything, you are just making up things to suit your flawed agenda.

    No your own opinion is bad, a race like the dracthyr makes perfect sense to be completely restricted to just the one option, its a race designed to use the powers of the dragonflights and be a powerful soldier.

    You cant provide proof to counter me so you can keep believing blizzard care about the 1% of players feedback since most ppl just unsub and dont bother because it makes no difference, you are pretty naive to think blizzard have not already explored all options at some point in the development of 20 years to know whats good for the game and is not.
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  4. #484
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    No in WoW there should be plenty of race and class restrictions, thats the lore of the WoW universe that not everyone can learn everything, you are just making up things to suit your flawed agenda.
    Everyone can learn anything, all playable races but two are physically and mentally capable of learning to be any class in the game, thats the lore of the WoW universe that you don't know about, but you think you do.

    In the game, already as npcs, we have undead and night elf paladins, goblins monks, orcs and dwarves druids, and other options that are not just possible for players because gatekeping.
    No your own opinion is bad, a race like the dracthyr makes perfect sense to be completely restricted to just the one option, its a race designed to use the powers of the dragonflights and be a powerful soldier.
    Yeah, now you know what is bad and what is not, when you barely know the lore of the game, sure.

    You cant provide proof to counter me so you can keep believing blizzard care about the 1% of players feedback since most ppl just unsub and dont bother because it makes no difference, you are pretty naive to think blizzard have not already explored all options at some point in the development of 20 years to know whats good for the game and is not.
    The onus of proof is your buddy, you claim first

    We have plenty of examples of blizzard doing things because of feedback, literally the worgen model was changed because feedback a couple of years ago

    now they are letting all races be priest mage and rogue, breaking both of your arguments (that they don't listen to feedback, and there should b eplenty of race/class restrictions) at once.

    Can you understand that? one addition, broke two of your main arguments

  5. #485
    I mean, I have no issue with it in a sense. Dracthyr being the only ones able to be evokers is in the same vein that only Blood/Night elves can be demon hunters.

    What I was disappointed in was that Dracthyr can only ever be evokers is what upset me. From a lore standpoint, I can understand. But, hopefully, in the near future when they have joined the ranks of the Horde and Alliance for some time, they'll be able to be other classes. It just feels like a waste of a race to have them tied to a single class right now, IMO.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Everyone can learn anything, all playable races but two are physically and mentally capable of learning to be any class in the game, thats the lore of the WoW universe that you don't know about, but you think you do.

    In the game, already as npcs, we have undead and night elf paladins, goblins monks, orcs and dwarves druids, and other options that are not just possible for players because gatekeping.


    Yeah, now you know what is bad and what is not, when you barely know the lore of the game, sure.



    The onus of proof is your buddy, you claim first

    We have plenty of examples of blizzard doing things because of feedback, literally the worgen model was changed because feedback a couple of years ago

    now they are letting all races be priest mage and rogue, breaking both of your arguments (that they don't listen to feedback, and there should b eplenty of race/class restrictions) at once.

    Can you understand that? one addition, broke two of your main arguments
    No thats not the lore of the game that anyone can learn anything, it just proves that you dont have any idea about the lore of WoW, the game is not WoW lore and is not canon to the actual lore of WoW but it should remain true as best possible to keep the worlds integrity whole.

    You have proven your opinion on what you think is better is just nonsense.

    No you have to prove me wrong first i dont need to do anything until you can actually prove me wrong in the first place.

    We have no accounts of feedback actually changing anything thats the truth you cant prove anything you say.

    Nothing has broken my argument about them listening to feedback, they didnt unlock a few more race/class options because of feedback, they only do things that the higher ups want to do, its only about making money.

    You have lose the arguement at every turn, you have yet to once break anything i have said with an actual fact.
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  7. #487
    High Overlord Ghanir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Janitor View Post
    I think given the very real evolution of our species one would at least expect them to realize that having a force and reach amplifier is something desireable, the same holds true for hunting without alerting your prey, because "medium range" is certainly not something that helps feeding you. Not to mention they have external influences as well from the various races they've already shown to be present there (for whatever hare-brained reason), like the centaurs.

    It simply seems rather unblievable that they are the single sentient (and bipedal) species in all of WoW's creation we've seen so far that has only developed towards magic, even with the mumbo jumbo origin by Neltharion, it makes little sense that dragons of all people wouldn't value a race that can also fend for itself in melee - why even have fangs and claws otherwise?

    I think it just shows that their existence as such makes little to no sense and they are only this way because they absolutely wanted to give them all dragon abilities but didn't want to add a melee spec and yet had to conform to the "holy" trinity somehow. They simply had to hammer a star shaped peg into a crack that was mistaken as a square hole and the logic got shaved off in the process.
    While I wished for a tank spec as their 3rd spec myself I will argue against your point about evolution. The Dracthyr didn't come to exist naturally, but were genetically engineered.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrexia View Post
    Are you listening to yourself?

    Tanks and melee being left out in the cold???

    We haven't had a single ranged dps spec in 18 years yet you guy are whining about being left out of 1 class, I mean seriously tank/melee players need to get over it.
    He's not advocating for ranged to not get a spec tho, just for there to be more role options.

  8. #488
    Been playing for over a decade before I had to go cold turkey. Things just got complacent and players are fine with how lackluster the content is as long as there's 'something'. The justification of 'if fits the lore' to justify the lack of creativity (has dried up).

  9. #489
    High Overlord Ghanir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    To be fair, they're quite a bit beyond the Dragokin we've been "killing for years". They're chromatic/prismatics who can directly utilize the power of the 5 dragonflights simultaneously. As a class, they are a playable version of the aspects.
    While I won't say that the Aspects can't use all the primary schools of magic for each dragonflight I will say that afaik no Aspect utilize all 5 schools of magic used by the primary dragonflights. This makes the Dracthyr more unique than the Aspects.

  10. #490
    Evokers ONLY being able to be Dracthyr is okay with me, sure. At least starting off in the expansion they're introduced. It's along the same lines as demon hunters only able to be elves right now. Evoker abilities also seem to utilize a lot of things that only Dracthyr would be able to do, such as using the dragonflight powers and flying around and breathing fire.

    Dracthyr ONLY being able to be Evokers is what I don't understand. Just seems like a lazy design decision. It's not as if they'd be unable to just pick up a sword and train to be a warrior, or a rogue, or a hunter. Same with studying to be a mage (possibly warlock) and priest.

  11. #491
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    No thats not the lore of the game that anyone can learn anything, it just proves that you dont have any idea about the lore of WoW, the game is not WoW lore and is not canon to the actual lore of WoW but it should remain true as best possible to keep the worlds integrity whole.
    Thats literally the lore of warcraft, try to proof your own argument that some races cannot learn another class, i dare you.

    "the game is not wow lore and is not canon to the actual lore" like what the heck, are you truly saying the GAME is not canon just because it counter your nonsense?
    No you have to prove me wrong first i dont need to do anything until you can actually prove me wrong in the first place.
    You make the claim, you prove yourself.
    Nothing has broken my argument about them listening to feedback,.
    >community ask for loosing class/race restriction
    >blizzard do just that, by allowing every race be mage, priest and rogue, and say they will do more.

    you:

    tHeY dOnT LiStEn tO FeEdBacK

    nOt EvErY RaCe CaN bE eVeRyThInG
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-05-02 at 07:32 PM.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You’ll see your armor in visage form, but not in combat form. No different than Druids.
    Right. That sucks.

    It isn't a lore thing, it's about customizing how your character looks. You spend thousands of hours looking at your character. Losing that sucks, and a strictly limited selection of horns and scales and such in the barbershop UI is not a replacement for thousands of pieces of armor added to the game over the past 15 years.

    It should be pretty easy to address this-- just don't force Dracthyr to shift into draconic form upon entering combat. On a technical level this can be done by flagging your character with a hidden aura similar to blinking directionally, night fae soulshift form, etc.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2022-05-02 at 07:47 PM.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Thats literally the lore of warcraft, try to proof your own argument that some races cannot learn another class, i dare you.

    "the game is not wow lore and is not canon to the actual lore" like what the heck, are you truly saying the GAME is not canon just because it counter your nonsense?


    You make the claim, you prove yourself.


    >community ask for loosing class/race restriction
    >blizzard do just that, by allowing every race be mage, priest and rogue, and say they will do more.

    you:

    tHeY dOnT LiStEn tO FeEdBacK

    nOt EvErY RaCe CaN bE eVeRyThInG
    Games are never canon because they cant be are you completely dilusional in thinking the game is always canon compared to lore, thats one of the reasons players leave is because the lore is not upheld and they just do what they want sometimes, it makes the game worse when the lore is destroyed. There should be much more restrictions on what classes can be what, an example would be an undead should never wield the light or any light spells be cast as it would damage or kill them but for the game they ignore that.

    No you made the claim it was false so you have to prove it otherwise so stop embarrasing yourself since you are unable to prove me wrong.

    You have failed to make an arguement that makes any sense, blizzard will always do what they want and that means what is likely to make them money, blizzard have not loosened class race restrictions, rogue priest and mage are just available to the most races anyway so they just expanded on it to pretend they are doing something, you have yet to prove anything you have said.
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  14. #494
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Right. That sucks.

    It isn't a lore thing, it's about customizing how your character looks. You spend thousands of hours looking at your character. Losing that sucks, and a strictly limited selection of horns and scales and such in the barbershop UI is not a replacement for thousands of pieces of armor added to the game over the past 15 years.
    Again, Druids are the most popular class in the game, and 3/4 of their specs have combat forms where no armor is visible. I'm sorry if this is something you personally dislike, but it doesn't seem to be an issue for the wider audience.

    It should be pretty easy to address this-- just don't force Dracthyr to shift into draconic form upon entering combat. On a technical level this can be done by flagging your character with a hidden aura similar to blinking directionally, night fae soulshift form, etc.
    Except Evoker abilities are dragon-based abilities. In other words, they only make sense for a draconic body to be doing them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghanir View Post
    While I won't say that the Aspects can't use all the primary schools of magic for each dragonflight I will say that afaik no Aspect utilize all 5 schools of magic used by the primary dragonflights. This makes the Dracthyr more unique than the Aspects.
    This is a fair point. Also it appears that each spec will have access to all 5 magic types. For example, while Devastation is more focused on Red/Blue aspects, it still has access to Black/Bronze/Green magic as well.

    That's very cool. I also wonder how Black is going to play as sort of the background magic in each spec. Should be interesting.

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, Druids are the most popular class in the game, and 3/4 of their specs have combat forms where no armor is visible. I'm sorry if this is something you personally dislike, but it doesn't seem to be an issue for the wider audience.
    And yet for years we see complains from druid players about lack of customization because no armor in animal forms.
    And these complains were the reason for removal of permanent three form and addition of Glyph of Stars.

    Druid class is popular not because no armor visibility in combat is a good thing. It is popular despite of it. It is still a problem and players still hate it.
    Repeating the same problem, when players are complaining about it for years, is dumb.

  16. #496
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertoster View Post
    And yet for years we see complains from druid players about lack of customization because no armor in animal forms.
    And these complains were the reason for removal of permanent three form and addition of Glyph of Stars.
    Those "constant complaints" haven't dulled the popularity of the class in the slightest.

    Druid class is popular not because no armor visibility in combat is a good thing. It is popular despite of it. It is still a problem and players still hate it.
    Repeating the same problem, when players are complaining about it for years, is dumb.
    I disagree that players hate it, they tolerate it because they understand why it's in place. People who HATE it don't play Druids. You obviously can't have a bear, cat, or moonkin running around wearing standard armor. The same applies to Dracthyr, thanks to their massive wings, long tails, necks, and variable heads. Again, people who HATE this situation simply won't play the new class. However, as is the case with Druids, it'll be the (vocal) minority.

  17. #497
    The Patient Supertoster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The same applies to Dracthyr, thanks to their massive wings, long tails, necks, and variable heads
    This is the weakest argument I have ever seen. We already have various body shapes and anatomies, we already have races with special parts visible through armor (undead spine), we already have races with tails, we already have races with non-standard heads and necks. If Taurens and Worgens can wear armor - Dracthyr should too.

    To be completely honest, I don't get why some people keep defending multibillion company. What do you get from it? From customer point of view there is not need in defense of Blizzard and it definitely don't deserve it.
    The only reason for customer to say "we have enough of X" only if further addition of X will hurt the product. Which is never the case for customization. There is no logical reasons for Dracthyr not to wear armor. There is no excuses for such company to reuse old animations for new races, especially when all previous races were with new animations. There is no logical reason for Dracthyr visages to be only belfs and humans. New lore, that comes with them, cannot be an excuse, because there is no logical reason why it cannot be changed.
    Players have all rights to be critical about the game, even if they are negative - there is no obligation for customer feedback to be constructive, because it is not customer's job. Players have all reasons to be demand more, because previous experience with the product was lackluster at best.
    There is no reason to defend Blizzard's laziness after 2 problematic expansions in a row. Players should be negative, players should be critical, players should be skeptical, players should demand more, because players vote with their money.
    Players should show Blizzard that it cannot under-deliver on MMO market where other competitors over-deliver on regular basis.
    Last edited by Supertoster; 2022-05-03 at 12:32 AM.

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertoster View Post
    To be completely honest, I don't get why some people keep defending multibillion company.
    Liking the currently presented art direction is not somehow defending a corporate conglomerate.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Supertoster View Post
    To be completely honest, I don't get why some people keep defending multibillion company. What do you get from it? From customer point of view there is not need in defense of Blizzard and it definitely don't deserve it.
    The only reason for customer to say "we have enough of X" only if further addition of X will hurt the product. Which is never the case for customization. There is no logical reasons for Dracthyr not to wear armor. There is no excuses for such company to reuse old animations for new races, especially when all previous races were with new animations. There is no logical reason for Dracthyr visages to be only belfs and humans. New lore, that comes with them, cannot be an excuse, because there is no logical reason why it cannot be changed.
    Players have all rights to be critical about the game, even if they are negative - there is no obligation for customer feedback to be constructive, because it is not customer's job. Players have all reasons to be demand more, because previous experience with the product was lackluster at best.
    There is no reason to defend Blizzard's laziness after 2 problematic expansions in a row. Players should be negative, players should be critical, players should be skeptical, players should demand more, because players vote with their money.
    Players should show Blizzard that it cannot under-deliver on MMO market where other competitors over-deliver on regular basis.
    It’s not that we are defending blizzard, but the things you’re complaining about are literally ridiculous. Some of these things I just straight up LIKE that they did it.

    “They can’t wear armor”

    Good. Neither did Druids for the longest time, I’m pretty sure most don’t anyway unless there’s still that book to make your moonkin form into an astral form.

    “We have enough of melee”, yes we have enough of melee, there doesn’t need to be more. We have had 3 new classes. And guess how many were just melee? All of them.

    We haven’t had a new ranged class since the e game came out. Also FFS it’s called an EVOKER. This is literally like complaining that a class called a WIZARD isn’t a warrior.

    “There’s no reason for visage to only be…”

    Literally who gives a shit.

    “New lore that comes with them cannot be an excuse”

    Actually bud it most certainly can and it most certainly is. If they make a race with a story where it is only crested to be a caster, guess what the game should reflect? Them only being a caster.

    Yeah you can complain all you want, but don’t be surprised when people tell you how absolutely ridiculous you’re being.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    Liking the currently presented art direction is not somehow defending a corporate conglomerate.
    People who say things like “bootlicker” or “why are you defending a billionaire/company” are so dumb they don’t even realize that sometimes they actually like changes that others might not.

    “Omg you LIKE sometbing the game gave you that I don’t? Seriously why defend a billion dollar company”

  20. #500
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertoster View Post
    This is the weakest argument I have ever seen. We already have various body shapes and anatomies, we already have races with special parts visible through armor (undead spine), we already have races with tails, we already have races with non-standard heads and necks. If Taurens and Worgens can wear armor - Dracthyr should too.

    To be completely honest, I don't get why some people keep defending multibillion company. What do you get from it? From customer point of view there is not need in defense of Blizzard and it definitely don't deserve it.
    The only reason for customer to say "we have enough of X" only if further addition of X will hurt the product. Which is never the case for customization. There is no logical reasons for Dracthyr not to wear armor. There is no excuses for such company to reuse old animations for new races, especially when all previous races were with new animations. There is no logical reason for Dracthyr visages to be only belfs and humans. New lore, that comes with them, cannot be an excuse, because there is no logical reason why it cannot be changed.
    Players have all rights to be critical about the game, even if they are negative - there is no obligation for customer feedback to be constructive, because it is not customer's job. Players have all reasons to be demand more, because previous experience with the product was lackluster at best.
    There is no reason to defend Blizzard's laziness after 2 problematic expansions in a row. Players should be negative, players should be critical, players should be skeptical, players should demand more, because players vote with their money.
    Players should show Blizzard that it cannot under-deliver on MMO market where other competitors over-deliver on regular basis.
    Except I'm not defending the company, I'm defending the design choice. The design choice simply doesn't work with a full set of armor, and the Dracthyr's large wings alone prove that. Weapon and cloak clipping would be a horrendous problem. We should also point out how ridiculous a helmet would look on a Dracthyr. Perhaps as bad, if not worse than how some helmets look on Worgen.

    That said, people are getting a visage form where their armor will be visible and they can show off their transmogs all they want.

    If you can't stomach that, then perhaps this class isn't for you? Just like I'm sure some people feel the way you do, I'm sure people also feel the way I do, in that it isn't a big deal. As proven by the popularity of the Druid class, showing off armor in combat is a minor concern next to providing an immersive gameplay experience.

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