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  1. #1

    Question Whats the chance of the class being broken at start?

    Well, looking back, when blizz released dks, they was so op at start, and was hard work to put then in line.

    So, we going to get an op class at start or u guys think blizz will hold on their tunning and we get a underperforming class?

  2. #2
    It will, if they want it to be a success.

  3. #3
    DK, Monk and DH were all broken when they were introduced. Some more than others, in certain aspects, but all of them required changes or nerfs to bring them more in line with the performance of the other classes.

    I highly doubt Evoker will be any different. It will take a while to get it right.

  4. #4
    The Patient vincink's Avatar
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    Is there a widely-understood definition of "broken"?

  5. #5
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    Since pretty much every new class has required multiple iterative passes to balance and refine, I'd say the odds of this are significantly better than average. "Broken" might be something of an overstatement, but "in need of tuning" will most certainly apply.
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  6. #6
    The new class will not be underperforming at launch. It will likely have low skill ceiling and thus most players will be able to do rather well on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Blizzard do what the players want all the time.

  7. #7
    100% are you kidding? How do you make your shiny new toy looking even more enticing to bring people back? Make it OP af. Every new class was OP af for the entire expansion it was released in. Then the next expac they gimp them down to normal or sub par levels.

  8. #8
    I guess they'll implement it on the stronger side, and then go through several iterations early on to tune them down, just to give them a little initial push.

    Looking at it historically, they implemented DK too strong (some may say broken), which caused a lot of complaints, but also helped the class as a whole, got some people to play it initially and abandon their mains. For monk, they went the other extreme: They were implemented on the weaker side and brought them up to speed over time. As a result, only very few people picked them up and stayed initially. This resulted in it being one of the least played classes for a long time - even though it can fulfill al roles. For DH, it didn't really matter either way, as it was a class wished for by so many long ahead anyway, well established in the lore, so they got a good boost in the beginning alone from that. Evoker is lacking that.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfelle View Post
    100% are you kidding? How do you make your shiny new toy looking even more enticing to bring people back? Make it OP af. Every new class was OP af for the entire expansion it was released in. Then the next expac they gimp them down to normal or sub par levels.
    This is only true for DKs. Monks and DH were pretty average, they both had moments where one of their specs shined, but they weren't blatantly OP for an entire expansion like DKs were in Wrath. In fact, Vengeance was somewhere between mediocre and trash for the entirety of Legion. The new class/race is going to be flashy and "fun" like DHs are. They will appeal to wide audience because they are different and simple to play, not because they are over tuned. As an aside, being on top doesn't make you op if its by 2%.

  10. #10
    I think it will be op; it won't feel as oppressive as dk/dh/monk because it's not melee so in PVP it's gonna take a while to notice it's good. But i bet they might top the charts in pve as dps & healer.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by cordrann View Post
    This is only true for DKs. Monks and DH were pretty average, they both had moments where one of their specs shined, but they weren't blatantly OP for an entire expansion like DKs were in Wrath. In fact, Vengeance was somewhere between mediocre and trash for the entirety of Legion. The new class/race is going to be flashy and "fun" like DHs are. They will appeal to wide audience because they are different and simple to play, not because they are over tuned. As an aside, being on top doesn't make you op if its by 2%.
    False. I've mained a DH since Legion pre-patch. Havoc was OP af in legion. That's why they had to nerf our leech and chaos blades into the ground. We had stupid survivability and insane burst and sustained dps. Go look at the numbers from legion, they don't lie.

    Brewmasters were OP af when they launched and remained that way for awhile. Stagger was not balanced at all. Mistweavers I honestly can't remember, but monks also had great mobility and burst as well. Just people that didn't like the aesthetic, or couldn't figure out the rotation is my guess as to why they weren't more popular.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfelle View Post
    False. I've mained a DH since Legion pre-patch. Havoc was OP af in legion. That's why they had to nerf our leech and chaos blades into the ground. We had stupid survivability and insane burst and sustained dps. Go look at the numbers from legion, they don't lie.

    Brewmasters were OP af when they launched and remained that way for awhile. Stagger was not balanced at all. Mistweavers I honestly can't remember, but monks also had great mobility and burst as well. Just people that didn't like the aesthetic, or couldn't figure out the rotation is my guess as to why they weren't more popular.
    OK will do!
    Antorus Havoc 4th from the bottom: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...#timespan=1000

    Tomb Havoc 5th from the bottom: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...&timespan=1000

    Nighthold Havoc 6th from the top but clearly not op: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...=1000&region=1

    TOV Havoc mid-tier: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...#timespan=1000

    EN Havoc mid-tier: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...#timespan=1000


    As far as Brewmasters go, they may have been strong but they weren't OP. This is something I would remember because I tanked on my Warrior throughout most of MoP and my co tank was a Brew. If anything I remember DKs being OP at certain points and Paladins at others during MOP.

  13. #13
    If they follow through with the new mechanics (charging) then it will have to be to get off the ground.
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  14. #14
    100% chance it will be broken at start, but it is playing in the prepatch so I guess they'll sort out most of the issues before raiding starts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vincink View Post
    Is there a widely-understood definition of "broken"?
    Yes, but most people ignore the definitions of things in polite conversation - that's just the way of the world.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincink View Post
    Is there a widely-understood definition of "broken"?
    Simply put, most players define broken as "not working the way I think it should" when every hero class released to date has had to be tuned down to better resemble the other classes in competitiveness.
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  16. #16
    New classes tend to be pretty OP at the start, and that's probably by design. Gives them a good start and doesn't have all the people who would main them run away and make it an underplayed class. Better overpowered than underpowered.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    New classes tend to be pretty OP at the start, and that's probably by design. Gives them a good start and doesn't have all the people who would main them run away and make it an underplayed class. Better overpowered than underpowered.
    Plus it's always easier to nerf down than buff up. You can see what actually works when the class is used in a "massive" way, what trends actually emerge, and just deal with any problems. People are forgiving with a new class, so if it is OP, they'll mostly just shrug.

    If you try to start perfectly balanced, odds are you'll need to buff up a lot of stuff in practice, and buffing up has an unfortunate tendency to lead to see-saw balancing where you have to keep buffing and nerfing trying to get it right, so that's another reason to start a bit OP.
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  18. #18
    To those saying Demon Hunters were broken in legion. As far as I remember, their numbers were good initially but it was adjusted very early in the expansion and their damage in raids were underhelming for a long time after that adjustment. Their upfront high burst damage was decent in M+ though. Death Knights in WLK was a completely different story.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfelle View Post
    False. I've mained a DH since Legion pre-patch. Havoc was OP af in legion. That's why they had to nerf our leech and chaos blades into the ground. We had stupid survivability and insane burst and sustained dps. Go look at the numbers from legion, they don't lie.

    Brewmasters were OP af when they launched and remained that way for awhile. Stagger was not balanced at all. Mistweavers I honestly can't remember, but monks also had great mobility and burst as well. Just people that didn't like the aesthetic, or couldn't figure out the rotation is my guess as to why they weren't more popular.
    DH were crazy op in the beta but they were tuned down fairly quickly. I wouldn’t even remotely put them in the same category of DKs. Honestly I wouldn’t even put them in the same category as something like ret paladins at the start of wotlk.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    DK, Monk and DH were all broken when they were introduced. Some more than others, in certain aspects, but all of them required changes or nerfs to bring them more in line with the performance of the other classes.

    I highly doubt Evoker will be any different. It will take a while to get it right.
    This, they'll aim for overtuning at the start to get its popularity going too.

    So yeah, try it out while it's fresh and tasty, or something.
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