Whats the chance of the class being broken at start?

[3DTyrant]

Most likely, take a look at the DKs, weren't they OP for a fair amount of time during WotLK?

[Dractier]

Most likely, take a look at the DKs, weren't they OP for a fair amount of time during WotLK?

I couldn’t tell you the exact patch they were on level but I would at least say a seasons worth of time they were out of fucking control.

Resto druid was literally unplayable during this time. My memory could be bad here but I’m fairly certain there was only something like 1 resto druid who got glad that season because of how much they absolutely shit on them

[Niwes]

when it is „broken“ and you define that as overpowered, it is by design (to hype the feature).

since all their classes are streamlined and use the builder consumer pattern, they can easily balance all stuff by changing some DB entries. thats why DH already was rather streamlined too at Legion release. will be the same with Evoker.

[Futhark]

Also consider the new talent trees. Every other class will be populated with legacy abilities that have been balanced against each other over the years. Evokers will have to have just as many talents created all at once, so there will definitely be some OP combos that have never been player tested.

[Talon8669]

OK will do!
Antorus Havoc 4th from the bottom: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...#timespan=1000

Tomb Havoc 5th from the bottom: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...on=1×pan=1000

Nighthold Havoc 6th from the top but clearly not op: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...an=1000®ion=1

TOV Havoc mid-tier: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...#timespan=1000

EN Havoc mid-tier: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...#timespan=1000


As far as Brewmasters go, they may have been strong but they weren't OP. This is something I would remember because I tanked on my Warrior throughout most of MoP and my co tank was a Brew. If anything I remember DKs being OP at certain points and Paladins at others during MOP.

We use feelings around here not facts

[Niwes]

It will, if they want it to be a success.

i will correct/complete this for you:

they have to, if they want it at least to be a mid ground success, since it targets 1/13 of their customer base.

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We use feelings around here not facts

ouch! hard mmoc sarcasm knockout! nice one! made my day! thx!

[RobertMugabe]

Well, looking back, when blizz released dks, they was so op at start, and was hard work to put then in line.

So, we going to get an op class at start or u guys think blizz will hold on their tunning and we get a underperforming class?

Demon Hunters were basically OP af in early Legion until they opened up M+/Raids. I expect them to do the same for Evokers, intentionally and I see this is a good thing when adding new classes to the game. It'd only piss me off if the class stayed OP af after the balancing for the 1st season.

[Alanar]

The new class will not be underperforming at launch. It will likely have low skill ceiling and thus most players will be able to do rather well on it.

Like demon hunter, few buttons, easy mechanic. press big button. It's like you said, everyone can jump right in and experience it. It's their main goal to reach more people and be available.

[cocomen2]

1-3 months after release all new classes on OP side of it, then comes balancing bat but not too much just to make them better than 60% of other classes, after a year you can hope to see them being even to old classes.

But this is best time for pvp, whole feeling when everyone trying to focus and kill new class characters.

[Monteverdi]

Monks and DH were pretty average

Brewmaster monks were absolute gods the first patch of MoP. The one time I've ever swapped mains was for that first patch of MoP, where it was mandatory for me to put down my blood DK and fast-track a brewmaster monk for our raid team.

[cordrann]

Brewmaster monks were absolute gods the first patch of MoP. The one time I've ever swapped mains was for that first patch of MoP, where it was mandatory for me to put down my blood DK and fast-track a brewmaster monk for our raid team.

That's super weird since very few of the world's best guilds used them. In fact, the world 3rd guild used a DK which was somehow "mandatory" for you to put down. The only tank that was significantly more used than others in the first patch was paladin, and it got even worse in Throne of Thunder with many guilds opting for double paladin due to the power of cheesing mechanics with bubbles.

[Monteverdi]

That's super weird since very few of the world's best guilds used them. In fact, the world 3rd guild used a DK which was somehow "mandatory" for you to put down. The only tank that was significantly more used than others in the first patch was paladin, and it got even worse in Throne of Thunder with many guilds opting for double paladin due to the power of cheesing mechanics with bubbles.

Not sure what the top guilds were doing, and I know for sure that Monk was hit in the face with nerf after nerf in the early days of MoP (I don't remember the specifics, slept a few times since then). But can confirm 100% that Brewmasters were *incredibly* strong in the initially released iteration.

[SinR]

WOTLK Launch DKs had NOTHING on WOTLK Beta DKs.

[Bronsin]

Also consider the new talent trees. Every other class will be populated with legacy abilities that have been balanced against each other over the years. Evokers will have to have just as many talents created all at once, so there will definitely be some OP combos that have never been player tested.

Thats assuming whoever is designing the evokers tree wont pull what the hunter dev did for survival and just place a bunch of 3/3 nodes that just increases dmg to certain spells

[RobertMugabe]

This is only true for DKs. Monks and DH were pretty average, they both had moments where one of their specs shined, but they weren't blatantly OP for an entire expansion like DKs were in Wrath. In fact, Vengeance was somewhere between mediocre and trash for the entirety of Legion. The new class/race is going to be flashy and "fun" like DHs are. They will appeal to wide audience because they are different and simple to play, not because they are over tuned. As an aside, being on top doesn't make you op if its by 2%.

DH was insane very early in Legion and it was kinda clear they did it intentionally.

Monks were very good too. Brewmaster was the most op tank early on iirc and MW was OP af all throughout MoP.

[Puri]

Neither monk nor DH were "broken" when they went live in either spec, not bad but also not top of the food chain.

Only the DK was utterly broken when it was on beta, was slightly nerfed when it went live, was quickly hotfixed with some significant nerfs, but remained on the stronger side during wotlk.

So considering that I expect some middle of the road performance.

[Ealyssa]

DH tank was hot garbage and DPS was good but never "op" (world first argus has 0 dh in the raid). Don’t know what Legion people played here, but it wasnt the retail one…

[Tommi]

That's super weird since very few of the world's best guilds used them. In fact, the world 3rd guild used a DK which was somehow "mandatory" for you to put down. The only tank that was significantly more used than others in the first patch was paladin, and it got even worse in Throne of Thunder with many guilds opting for double paladin due to the power of cheesing mechanics with bubbles.

I always found this funny. I remember my Paladin co-tank saying "You can't solo tank Iron Qon Heroic as a Brewmaster! Only Paladins can do that".... Then he proceeds to rage after I do it the next week as a brewmaster.

[Biomega]

Reminder: a balanced game isn't their goal. Getting as many people as possible buying and paying subscriptions is.

Sometimes that also leads to more balance. But at other times, they deliberately leave/make things unbalanced to attract more people. A new race/class combo being the centerpiece of a buy-to-play expansion is the perfect opportunity for them to do some pandering for cash.

[Revamp Man]

This is only true for DKs. Monks and DH were pretty average, they both had moments where one of their specs shined, but they weren't blatantly OP for an entire expansion like DKs were in Wrath. In fact, Vengeance was somewhere between mediocre and trash for the entirety of Legion. The new class/race is going to be flashy and "fun" like DHs are. They will appeal to wide audience because they are different and simple to play, not because they are over tuned. As an aside, being on top doesn't make you op if its by 2%.

Wait what??? Did we play the same game??

Monks were Hella OP in MoP. Vengeance and stagger along with guard made the tanks able to handle insane stuff and that's not including the 2 90% damage reduction abilities. Healers with eminence were also rocking decent dps in ToT and the moment they gave WW Clones was the moment you'd see them near the top on most multi target fights.

DH was nerfed like 5 times after launch because of aoe

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I always found this funny. I remember my Paladin co-tank saying "You can't solo tank Iron Qon Heroic as a Brewmaster! Only Paladins can do that".... Then he proceeds to rage after I do it the next week as a brewmaster.

Disarm and group absorbs were underrated