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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Excuse me this is completely nonse. WoW has usually around 30-50k on a daily basis on twitch and sometimes even above 100k while FF14 cant even get above 10k views on twitch. Except atm for whatever reason.

    WoW is still their #1 game when you take look at interest.
    Shows you the state on their whole company though..
    Looks like overwatch 2 is their number 1 game by far, 1.3M concurrent views yesterday. Wow never hit that at any point of its lifetime. It was only matched by lost ark on its release week.

    You have to understand averaging 30k views on twitch with such a focus on esports is laughable, when its being beaten by every other household game name, from LOL to apex to even fucking minecraft. Price of a game/sub cost does not matter because streaming inherently shows a interest in a game and is free.

    People watch wow for world firsts, mythic raid and mythic + races, pvp, etc, but not really for the everyday gameplay. Blizzard has been pushing aside its casual playerbase to cater to the top 1% of players. When its not even panning out on a daily streaming level, something is wrong. On all other times when some big tournament isnt going on, it does not have much to offer a viewer that cannot be done better by the other mmos.

    As soon as the interview with asmondgold is over, wow will come back down to the 20-30k viewer mark and will still be under FF14 and lost ark.

    Fyi, FF14 released overhauled its approach to its pvp and a new patch, its numbers have been trending up for a while. Its not "for whatever reason."
    Last edited by cityguy193; 2022-04-28 at 10:58 PM.
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  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    What is there to do in wow? Run the same mythic + dungeon 20 times? Run the same raid 20 times? Both games have completionist aspects to them, the same way wow does.
    Nah it's not even close between wow and ff14 imo.

    I mean pvp has a proper end-game for starters lol. And there feels like actual character progression in wow, I just don't get that same feeling with ff14 it just feels...flat after I've beaten everything once. Except GS that place is amazing
    Last edited by matheney2k; 2022-04-28 at 11:29 PM.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Nah it's not even close between wow and ff14 imo.

    I mean pvp has a proper end-game for starters lol. And there feels like actual character progression in wow, I just don't get that same feeling with ff14 it just feels...flat after I've beaten everything once. Except GS that place is amazing
    well thats a difference of opinion, as there is actual character progression in any mmo, its up to you to feel if its worth it. Im sure you will find people that running the same raid/dungeon/arena/bg mindless.
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  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Usagi Senshi View Post
    I've stayed subbed since 2013 and some months at a time I just hang in the Gold Saucer (doing it now) and randomly interacting with other players

    That alone is worth my $13 a month

    I understand where you're coming from though.
    I wish more people were chill like you.

    Sometimes I get the feeling that people forget the rest of the game outside the latest patch content exists. And if I dared suggest an alt, or running an old raid for mog, or even just hanging around chatting with friends I'd get crucified. Like you said, just the social aspect is worth 50c a day imo.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  5. #205
    It already has, Shadowlands is performing abysmal as is Blizzard as a company itself. Just look at their latest quarterly results, they're bad. Really, really bad.

    People can sugarcoat Shadowlands with it's "aMaZINg firSt dAy SAleS!!!", but it doesn't change the end result.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Evidence suggests that you are wrong. Last expac we had arguably the worst system that wow ever had , corruptions, on top of a borrowed power that most people hated on top of another grindy power system. When prepatch hit wow had the most subs it had in a decade.
    Memes. The general public had lost interest in the game and those peaks you see for a couple of weeks at launches are predictable and nothing special.
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  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioporco View Post
    Also RokPaNda




    Write in your native language
    then
    That was actually adorable. "Write in your native language." - There's this thing called nuance. WoW is at the end of an unpopular expansion, Final Fantasy is not very far into it's MOST HYPED EXPANSION EVER. For WoW to be in the state that it is in is pretty typical, for FFXIV which was just the most hyped MMO ever a couple months ago to be in the exact same state is actually kind of tragic. I hope they fix whatever went wrong that caused most of the streamers that hyped it up to leave. The MMO market needs good competition.
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  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    Looks like overwatch 2 is their number 1 game by far, 1.3M concurrent views yesterday. Wow never hit that at any point of its lifetime. It was only matched by lost ark on its release week.

    You have to understand averaging 30k views on twitch with such a focus on esports is laughable, when its being beaten by every other household game name, from LOL to apex to even fucking minecraft. Price of a game/sub cost does not matter because streaming inherently shows a interest in a game and is free.

    People watch wow for world firsts, mythic raid and mythic + races, pvp, etc, but not really for the everyday gameplay. Blizzard has been pushing aside its casual playerbase to cater to the top 1% of players. When its not even panning out on a daily streaming level, something is wrong. On all other times when some big tournament isnt going on, it does not have much to offer a viewer that cannot be done better by the other mmos.

    As soon as the interview with asmondgold is over, wow will come back down to the 20-30k viewer mark and will still be under FF14 and lost ark.

    Fyi, FF14 released overhauled its approach to its pvp and a new patch, its numbers have been trending up for a while. Its not "for whatever reason."
    People were watching Overwatch recently because Blizzard was doing the Beta drops via streaming hours for those who watched.

    FF14 is only this high right now -- because the new Ultimate is out, and people are watching it (same thing as the Mythic raid race). Once thats over, viewership is going to drop again. This happens every single time. You can look at what streams are popular in a category to see why people are currently watching. I literally follow Arthars who usually is a sub 1000 viewers everytime he streams -- and now he has 10k+ viewers because hes doing Ultimate prog.
    Last edited by TidalConflux; 2022-04-29 at 04:11 PM.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by TidalConflux View Post
    People were watching Overwatch recently because Blizzard was doing the Beta drops via streaming hours for those who watched.

    FF14 is only this high right now -- because the new Ultimate is out, and people are watching it (same thing as the Mythic raid race). Once thats over, viewership is going to drop again. This happens every single time. You can look at what streams are popular in a category to see why people are currently watching. I literally follow Arthars who usually is a sub 1000 viewers everytime he streams -- and now he has 10k+ viewers because hes doing Ultimate prog.
    Okay? How is that any different from wow subs being inflated during world firsts? The original poster was equating more views on stream as a more popular game, but then dismissed FF14 having higher numbers "for some reason." Wow averages anywhere from 15k-30k viewers most other days and you are free to check the twitch stats backing this up.

    My point stands. Blizzard invested so much into the esport scene, a move that should get as many eyeballs on their game as possible. The slow release of patches for casual content in favor of bigger more competitive scene patches isnt leading to a more popular game.

    Out of all of ATVI's holdings, only blizzard lost MAUs, which is unheard of in the last few years for video games, and they attributed it to decreasing reimbursement via WOW. If wow continues on this trajectory, it will be put on maintenance mode in favor for other games. This is double true once microsoft assumes control and would be in a better position to figure out if investing in wow is a better use of its money over call of duty or candy crush.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    That was actually adorable. "Write in your native language." - There's this thing called nuance. WoW is at the end of an unpopular expansion, Final Fantasy is not very far into it's MOST HYPED EXPANSION EVER. For WoW to be in the state that it is in is pretty typical, for FFXIV which was just the most hyped MMO ever a couple months ago to be in the exact same state is actually kind of tragic. I hope they fix whatever went wrong that caused most of the streamers that hyped it up to leave. The MMO market needs good competition.
    FFXIV was never a meant to big game. It did not have the first mover advantage that wow had starting out and had a uphill battle from the get go. Its very much possible to say that wow is losing engagement while FFXIV is increasing engagement, and that wow is still the bigger mmo. FFXIV never marketed itself as a wow killer, and tbh doesnt care what wow does. I only ever see wow players bitch about ffxiv however.

    I play both games, and find them fun. I can appreciate and also criticize both developers. With lost ark and FFXIV enagement matching and exceeding the engagement seen by wow depending on the week, the mmo market has more competition now more than ever. If you still prefer wow, then thats your preference, but this is anything but tragic, the mmo market is the best its ever been in years. I would argue the time from cataclysm to BFA was the worst portion of the market with no competition .

    FYI: Wow is not at the end of an expansion, there is still about a year left of shadowlands.
    Last edited by cityguy193; 2022-04-29 at 04:38 PM.
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  10. #210
    This is the most different they're going the final stretch of the xpac. It might be the least-empty the game has been during those final few months, that the game has been in several xpacs now.
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  11. #211
    https://ffxivcensus.com/

    The "great WoW exodus" was actually a decline for NA going from 450k in 5.3 that completed MSQ to 414k in 6.0

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    That was actually adorable. "Write in your native language." - There's this thing called nuance. WoW is at the end of an unpopular expansion, Final Fantasy is not very far into it's MOST HYPED EXPANSION EVER. For WoW to be in the state that it is in is pretty typical, for FFXIV which was just the most hyped MMO ever a couple months ago to be in the exact same state is actually kind of tragic. I hope they fix whatever went wrong that caused most of the streamers that hyped it up to leave. The MMO market needs good competition.
    The MMO market needs good competition

    The MMO market might be too small now. In the last 10 to 15 years all the grandparents and small children entered the internet and there is now a gigantic market for simplistic childish games which did not exist in the past.

    MMORPGing caters very specifically to people above the age of ~15-16 and below the age of ~30-35 because it needs enough intelligence to handle the complexity and enough free time to handle the addictive nature of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    its being beaten by every other household game name, from LOL to apex to even fucking minecraft.
    Bruh, minecraft is the most popular game in the world for a few years now, it's not the greatest comparison.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintlel View Post
    The "great WoW exodus" was actually a decline for NA going from 450k in 5.3 that completed MSQ to 414k in 6.0
    The "wow exodus" was mainly a wow meme. A bunch of wow youtubers clickbaited wow players who have quit to watch their videos; there's a constant supply of those; addictive games are loved to be hated by their quitters.

    Since it was a meme produced in wow: it's inevitable it couldn't be that impactful against itself.
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  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    Looks like overwatch 2 is their number 1 game by far, 1.3M concurrent views yesterday. Wow never hit that at any point of its lifetime. It was only matched by lost ark on its release week.

    You have to understand averaging 30k views on twitch with such a focus on esports is laughable, when its being beaten by every other household game name, from LOL to apex to even fucking minecraft. Price of a game/sub cost does not matter because streaming inherently shows a interest in a game and is free.

    People watch wow for world firsts, mythic raid and mythic + races, pvp, etc, but not really for the everyday gameplay. Blizzard has been pushing aside its casual playerbase to cater to the top 1% of players. When its not even panning out on a daily streaming level, something is wrong. On all other times when some big tournament isnt going on, it does not have much to offer a viewer that cannot be done better by the other mmos.

    As soon as the interview with asmondgold is over, wow will come back down to the 20-30k viewer mark and will still be under FF14 and lost ark.

    Fyi, FF14 released overhauled its approach to its pvp and a new patch, its numbers have been trending up for a while. Its not "for whatever reason."
    it's numbers have not been trending upward, at least not people actually consuming content

  14. #214
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    Out of all of ATVI's holdings, only blizzard lost MAUs, which is unheard of in the last few years for video games,
    Just want to provide some data, Assuming the rest of FfXiv follows the steam player trends they have also been losing MAU’s for a couple quarters.


    March 2022 17,937
    February 2022 23,298
    January 2022 36,614

    December 2021 53,729
    November 2021 25,761
    October 2021 26,731

    September 2021 31,514
    August 2021 40,301
    July 2021 37,666

    https://steamcharts.com/app/39210
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    I remember that meme and I remember it had no source and it was debunked. E.g. this research appears to show it's closer to 28 http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001365.php.

    It makes sense anyway especially when it goes to time-played since most people having the time to play games like this and the intelligence to handle them are at least teenagers (intelligence to handle the complexity) and up to university students (less work).
    Eh, same difference honestly. Point is that with 28 the average age has never been for kids/truly young people.

    Also intelligence does not depend all that much on age (if wt all, honestly), and stress/chaos resistance is much more a matter of health (which of course ties to age to an extent, but it's hardly the most important factor when considering stress).
    Reaction speed reduces quite quickly with age, but i've never considered WoW to be very hard in that sense; there is a big but far from unlimited amount of decision making in a reasonable timespan (partially thanks to the gcd).

    The time thing is accurate insofar that working age people have less available of it in general.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    intelligence does not depend all that much on age (if wt all, honestly
    I does in extremities, and statistically. E.g. most 5 year olds would be totally lost in a 20man mythic raid (to not say almost all of them) but they can be pretty high skilled in those Android games of 3V3 multiplayer with their 2 buttons and 4 directional movements.
    Last edited by epigramx; 2022-04-30 at 05:03 PM.
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  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by ToxicFlame View Post
    Firstly, ur just wrong, gta 4 barely sold less at 3.5 million, gta 5 sold 11 million, cod mw3 sold 6.5 million in the first 24 hours. Secondly first day amount doesn't mean shit. If they had sold any significant amount of copies afterwards they'd release concrete numbers and they'd be shouting it from the roof tops.
    umm ur wrong, like very wrong..

    "GTA V - Extensively marketed and widely anticipated, the game broke industry sales records and became the fastest-selling entertainment product in history, earning $800 million in its first day and $1 billion in its first three days."

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    I does in extremities, and statistically. E.g. most 5 year olds would be totally lost in a 20man mythic raid (to not say almost all of them) but they can be pretty high skilled in those Android games of 3V3 multiplier with their 2 buttons and 4 directional movements.
    I feel that it was pretty clear we were discussing developed people, e.g. at least 14 years of age. Below that there is of course a huge development happening in terms of intelligence. The point however was that it does not really wither with age barring health issues.
    Also reaction speed and intelligence do not correlate; plenty of lightning fast creatures and people dull as a rock, plenty of weirdly slow apparantly absent minded ones that are sharper than any sword.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Just want to provide some data, Assuming the rest of FfXiv follows the steam player trends they have also been losing MAU’s for a couple quarters.


    March 2022 17,937
    February 2022 23,298
    January 2022 36,614

    December 2021 53,729
    November 2021 25,761
    October 2021 26,731

    September 2021 31,514
    August 2021 40,301
    July 2021 37,666

    https://steamcharts.com/app/39210
    Very few players play FFXIV through steam and this does not account for any of the playstation players. You may as well quote wow players who exclusively play on mac. The players here are low enough that while this shows the trend with normal spike in players with an expac release, a lot of it can be attributed to noise.
    Last edited by cityguy193; 2022-04-29 at 05:50 PM.
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  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    Very few players play FFXIV through steam and this does not account for any of the playstation players. You may as well quote wow players who exclusively play on mac. The players here are low enough that while this shows the trend with normal spike in players with an expac release, a lot of it can be attributed to noise.
    Or you might as well use Google Trend data to try to prove WoW subs.

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