I suspect SL's hiatus will have the lowest subs in history and it will trigger events

[cityguy193]

if it gets you banned then why do so many people do it

Mutiboxing was allowed until it wasnt (likely due to years of complaints by the community). They determined the money lost was not offset by the money gained and made a change.

[Jester Joe]

Unique characters != unique accounts.
People are doing M+ on several alts i imagine.

You imagine, but there's no way to tell the amount and even if we assume half, last I checked that would still put it at about 600k, which you'd also have to factor in how many people don't even step into m+.

Even being overly pessimistic, it's still gonna be at least a million.

[Zenfoldor]

Your first paragraph nails it. WoW can't compete with today's games and is only really popular among addicts and sunk costees.

So it's become more a niche hobby some people are clinging to for almost 2 decades. I think WoW can survive among niche hobbyist, but Blizzard should scrap any ideas of a revival, even an absolutely slapping expansion will not create more first time players, just bring old players back who don't play but still check up on forums and stuff like me.

It's hard selling a game created in 2004 to people born after 2004. It's hard seeing WoWs graphics (people's first impressions btw) be comparable to xbox-360 graphics. People were spoiled by great graphic RPGs like Skyrim over a decade ago, WoW hasn't gotten more popular since then.

They should scrap wow after the next xpak and start building WoW 2.

Current wow really isn't JUST a 2004 super old game, that's an oversimplification. Each xpak changes it and modernizes it(for better or worse). However, the perception that this game is tired and old will live on as long as there isn't a number 2 after the name.

If they want a revitalization, they need to make the game seem new. There's a reason they don't just release more levels for Diablo 3 or Call of Duty, but instead create Diablo 4. They need to get rid of the dated perceptions around the game, and it will be revitalized. Most people who would come back aren't even paying attention to the actual game, just the perception that it is old and tired and bad. The game doesn't even have to be good, just new and a big IP to pop huge numbers. If it happens to also be good, all the better.

Is it really saving them that much time keeping the old engine on life support, at the cost of relevance in modern gaming. It seems like after a certain point, just updating the old stuff would kinda obviously be a bad business strategy for the future health of the IP.

[rrayy]

They should scrap wow after the next xpak and start building WoW 2.

Current wow really isn't JUST a 2004 super old game, that's an oversimplification. Each xpak changes it and modernizes it(for better or worse). However, the perception that this game is tired and old will live on as long as there isn't a number 2 after the name.

If they want a revitalization, they need to make the game seem new. There's a reason they don't just release more levels for Diablo 3 or Call of Duty, but instead create Diablo 4. They need to get rid of the dated perceptions around the game, and it will be revitalized. Most people who would come back aren't even paying attention to the actual game, just the perception that it is old and tired and bad.

They are never gpoing to make a WoW2. Nobody is going to give up their characters and start all over again in a brand new gear. They certainly aren't going to scrap ex-ansions that make money for a new game that is no guarantee it will make money at all.

[Utrrabbit]

Even Vanilla looks jaw-dropping at times, and I mean actual Vanilla, without Classic polish (which made everything so much better).

The environment design has always carried the game. Expansion after Expansion. Solid core aesthetics that havent' been compromised on, at least not by a whole lot.

And Blizzard is missing a trick here. They're letting all these beautiful zones rot away as levelling content alts are being rushed through rather than reintroduce them as fresh world quest zones.

That is players choice. You can choose to not rush through the content.

I rush on certain toons simple cause I like to see how quickly I can do it. Does not mean I do not have toons I di not take my time with.

Currently I am in the process of unlocking dark iron dwarves so I can lvl a paladin (my 6th paladin). I am planning on lvling it through wrath doing every single quest. Taking my time to read them all again after about 5 years of not doing the zones.

[cityguy193]

They are never gpoing to make a WoW2. Nobody is going to give up their characters and start all over again in a brand new gear. They certainly aren't going to scrap ex-ansions that make money for a new game that is no guarantee it will make money at all.

So you would rather blizzard never do anything else with the blizzard IP in the mmo space? Do you think in 2035 wow is supposed to continue with its 2004 engine? Theres so much more that could be accomplished with an updated framework but propping up a zombie game hinders the mmorpg space as a whole.

Take a look at Unreal 5. Its framework allows multiple instances of content to be simultaneously added and tested. Imagine a new content faster than every 9 months.

[Utrrabbit]

They should scrap wow after the next xpak and start building WoW 2.

Current wow really isn't JUST a 2004 super old game, that's an oversimplification. Each xpak changes it and modernizes it(for better or worse). However, the perception that this game is tired and old will live on as long as there isn't a number 2 after the name.

If they want a revitalization, they need to make the game seem new. There's a reason they don't just release more levels for Diablo 3 or Call of Duty, but instead create Diablo 4. They need to get rid of the dated perceptions around the game, and it will be revitalized. Most people who would come back aren't even paying attention to the actual game, just the perception that it is old and tired and bad. The game doesn't even have to be good, just new and a big IP to pop huge numbers. If it happens to also be good, all the better.

Is it really saving them that much time keeping the old engine on life support, at the cost of relevance in modern gaming. It seems like after a certain point, just updating the old stuff would kinda obviously be a bad business strategy for the future health of the IP.

This idea of wow2 is the single worst idea the community had ever come up with. It would destroy the franchise on day 1. People who think wow2 is a good idea have no clue what they are talking about.

[cparle87]

Alright what is the difference?

Because the latter is a company selling their product while the former is people selling other people someone else's property?

[Iain]

That is players choice. You can choose to not rush through the content.

I rush on certain toons simple cause I like to see how quickly I can do it. Does not mean I do not have toons I di not take my time with.

Currently I am in the process of unlocking dark iron dwarves so I can lvl a paladin (my 6th paladin). I am planning on lvling it through wrath doing every single quest. Taking my time to read them all again after about 5 years of not doing the zones.

Encouraging players to pace themselves lest they blow through the best gameplay leaving them stuck with stale content is how MMO's die. I mean, consider the absurdity of telling players who only want more of what you already offer that they should enjoy something new you have to come up with every patch cycle instead.

Playing it at any rate still means you arrive into an end-game that keeps you out of most of the places that. If these places where included into the end-game, through being recycled into world-quests and mythic instances, then nobody has to worry they'll depart the zones they love if they play too much.

[rrayy]

So you would rather blizzard never do anything else with the blizzard IP in the mmo space? Do you think in 2035 wow is supposed to continue with its 2004 engine? Theres so much more that could be accomplished with an updated framework but propping up a zombie game hinders the mmorpg space as a whole.

Take a look at Unreal 5. Its framework allows multiple instances of content to be simultaneously added and tested. Imagine a new content faster than every 9 months.

I did not say that. What I did say was that WoW2 is not going to be the draw you think it will. Players will not give up their characters from the original, all the years they spent on it, to start over completely from scratch. With WOW still making money, there is zreo point tro a WoW2 as it is likely to be a comnplete disaster.

[kenn9530]

in the world where it broken the record for fastest selling game in the history? so... REALITY?
mind you, thats not even whole amount, thats day one + preorders...

- - - Updated - - -



what an unusual sight, business that have goal of making money...
it ALWAYS have been the intention of blizzard and EVERY other gaming (or any different tbh) company... like did you just now realise blizzard is not charity?

Cyberpunk beat its it for fastest selling game and total number of copies sold so its hardly something to brag about, many players in WoW just are unable to quit and buy the game regardless of it being good or not anymore.

[cityguy193]

I did not say that. What I did say was that WoW2 is not going to be the draw you think it will. Players will not give up their characters from the original, all the years they spent on it, to start over completely from scratch. With WOW still making money, there is zreo point tro a WoW2 as it is likely to be a comnplete disaster.

From its peak, wow has lost atleast 80% of its playerbase since Cata. Those players have quit their characters they spent years on already. Retaining the slow bleed with the 1-2 million~ retail subs cannot last forever, and it may be better to appeal to the millions of people that have tried wow over the years with a brand new game.

Classic wow will not be a draw for returning players after wrath is concluded by 2024. Blizzard will be forced to innovate or put wow on life support just propped up by several hundred thousand subs several years from now. The 2004 engine hinders innovation, and will eventually need to be dealt with.

Just look at overwatch 2 on twitch right now, nearly 900k viewers. People are excited over sequels.

[TheRevenantHero]

if it gets you banned then why do so many people do it

Because they have tons of throwaway accounts for the purposes of gold selling. I can't believe I actually needed to explain this

[Zenfoldor]

This idea of wow2 is the single worst idea the community had ever come up with. It would destroy the franchise on day 1. People who think wow2 is a good idea have no clue what they are talking about.

Other MMOs have had sequels. Other Blizzard games have had sequels. It is a very common way to keep an IP healthy and to expand the fanbase and to make money. Many people won't jump in on a game when it is considered old. WoW is the most successful mmo. They are already creating the content, just in an old engine that is probably harder to work with and create on, than a new one would be. Why should Blizzard never make a sequel for WoW?

If the reason is that people don't want to lose their collectibles, I guess I just disagree. Collectibles are not an unsolvable or (imho) even a very important problem. Surely there will come a time when there are less people who still care about their WoW 1 collectibles, than new or ex fans who want a reset and new engine. The name WoW2 alone would guarantee a successful launch. All they would need to bring to the table would be a halfway decent game.

I understand that it is super efficient the way they can keep churning these xpaks out, but eventually marketing suffers, the product suffers, oftentimes efficiency and quality run contrary to each other's goals.

[RoKPaNda]

[citation needed] because if FF is dead and at the same spot of Retail means that WoW is dead too.

I like how you only read the part of that post that you wanted to. WoW is not in the best way, and I don't think I ever disputed that but WoW is also a lot further out from the start the latest expansion than FF is. If the best that FF can do is being on par with the very end of one of the most dragged WoW expansions that doesn't say much for FF, and I even acknowledged that FF is a perfectly fine game but its resurgence last year didn't last very long. Not to take anything away from FF, but acting like it is actively "shitting on" WoW at the moment is very disingenuous. It had a lot of hype last year, absolutely.

Other MMOs have had sequels. Other Blizzard games have had sequels. It is a very common way to keep an IP healthy and to expand the fanbase and to make money. Many people won't jump in on a game when it is considered old. WoW is the most successful mmo. They are already creating the content, just in an old engine that is probably harder to work with and create on, than a new one would be. Why should Blizzard never make a sequel for WoW?

If the reason is that people don't want to lose their collectibles, I guess I just disagree. Collectibles are not an unsolvable or (imho) even a very important problem. Surely there will come a time when there are less people who still care about their WoW 1 collectibles, than new or ex fans who want a reset and new engine. The name WoW2 alone would guarantee a successful launch. All they would need to bring to the table would be a halfway decent game.

I understand that it is super efficient the way they can keep churning these xpaks out, but eventually marketing suffers, the product suffers, oftentimes efficiency and quality run contrary to each other's goals.

The only one that springs to mind that did really well is EverQuest 2, and even with that they kept churning out expansions for EQ1. SOME MMOs having sequels doesn't mean all of them should have them or need them.

[Zenfoldor]

I like how you only read the part of that post that you wanted to. WoW is not in the best way, and I don't think I ever disputed that but WoW is also a lot further out from the start the latest expansion than FF is. If the best that FF can do is being on par with the very end of one of the most dragged WoW expansions that doesn't say much for FF, and I even acknowledged that FF is a perfectly fine game but its resurgence last year didn't last very long. Not to take anything away from FF, but acting like it is actively "shitting on" WoW at the moment is very disingenuous. It had a lot of hype last year, absolutely.



The only one that springs to mind that did really well is EverQuest 2, and even with that they kept churning out expansions for EQ1. SOME MMOs having sequels doesn't mean all of them should have them or need them.

You want WoW to continue as Everquest did? Is this the best hope and ambition for the health of the biggest, most profitable, and most relevant mmo IP of all time? Is WoW so valueless that it should be relegated to an irrelevant small scale profit machine that as long as it covers its own cost, should be ignored? Do you think Blizzard doesn't really know what they have with this IP? I disagree. The IP is still well known and not really rusty yet. It still has great marketing value, it just isn't being utilized...yet.

Perhaps they think the current WoW monetization scheme is the best it can do. If so, I'd venture to guess they are wrong.

[kamuimac]

So you would rather blizzard never do anything else with the blizzard IP in the mmo space? Do you think in 2035 wow is supposed to continue with its 2004 engine? Theres so much more that could be accomplished with an updated framework but propping up a zombie game hinders the mmorpg space as a whole.

Take a look at Unreal 5. Its framework allows multiple instances of content to be simultaneously added and tested. Imagine a new content faster than every 9 months.

the engine is not the problem though

the problem is that game is just overtuned to the sky atm because fo some bizzare reason blizzard decided to cater their game only to hardcore audience who has been hardcore for past 16 years.

game is in beyond terrible state atm but that not because of engine - only because its borderline unplayable atm if you are not a nolifing tryhard.

[Skylarking]

Because they have tons of throwaway accounts for the purposes of gold selling. I can't believe I actually needed to explain this

Well then I guess that's that isn't it. Token isn't the issue like I said

[TheRevenantHero]

Well then I guess that's that isn't it. Token isn't the issue like I said

Ah so you're being purposely obtuse.

[Woggmer]

From its peak, wow has lost atleast 80% of its playerbase since Cata. Those players have quit their characters they spent years on already. Retaining the slow bleed with the 1-2 million~ retail subs cannot last forever, and it may be better to appeal to the millions of people that have tried wow over the years with a brand new game.

Classic wow will not be a draw for returning players after wrath is concluded by 2024. Blizzard will be forced to innovate or put wow on life support just propped up by several hundred thousand subs several years from now. The 2004 engine hinders innovation, and will eventually need to be dealt with.

Just look at overwatch 2 on twitch right now, nearly 900k viewers. People are excited over sequels.

Yeah, because Overwatch 2 actually ties player progression holdover from Overwatch 1 so people won't get upset of having to start from scratch to get the skins they lost in OW1.

With WoW, there are items that some people held over from decades ago and it is one of the few MMOs left on the market that allows older machines to play it. If they move to a new engine, everyone will have to start from scratch unless they can make "revamped updated" versions of cosmetic items, mounts, models, and even the environment, which could also take half a decade to make.

Having WoW on older machines means people won't have to buy an expensive PC just to play WoW, not to mention it's one of the only few MMOs left that's playable on a Mac. Making a WoW 2 on the Unreal Engine 5 would mean having to get fully upgraded PCs to play it and a lot of those people who can't meet those system requirements will probably not pick up WoW 2 and just go back to playing WoW 1 again.