Introduce player housing to Stormwind and Orgrimmar first, then spread outside

[Lochton]

The engine is a HUGE problem here, if i understand the situation correctly (im not a dev). Its simply not designed for it - its like trying to implement jumping puzzles - something i absolutely LOVE, but the engine just doesnt cope well with them at all. And yes, the game itself and classes would make them entirely redundant, im just using it as an example that came up a couple times earlier on in wows history, most recently when GW2 launched and had some pretty fucking cool ones.

Jumping puzzles are a good example, and doesn't matter if a class or faction offers some back-up to handle it, that is part of the world (And I've seen enough Venthyr members, and Demon Hunters fail basic jumping puzzles before). That is as well, something needed in the world. As said in the post (you might have read by now), the core needs more. And yes, the developers are most likely worried about the engine as it doesn't have a section that permits the player to control the world and would need a module upgrade, overhaul - or even a new one.

[arkanon]

Indeed, but this is where the problem lies. The core is too small now. The world of online entertainment is demanding more now. MMOs have people coming to the game just to talk with people, do events, meet, and explore - This is why raiding, PVP, and M+ aren't a majority anymore either. The core needs to be expanded.

To be clear - those things have NEVER been the most popular features of wow from a participation point of view, and like i keep saying over and over again, many of the games that DO feature player housing lack many or most of the features listed above.

[Lochton]

To be clear - those things have NEVER been the most popular features of wow from a participation point of view, and like i keep saying over and over again, many of the games that DO feature player housing lack many or most of the features listed above.

And I agreed with you on that, but WoW has players who stopped because WoW couldn't be their home - love everything, but they needed a bigger core, not just one minority getting the attention. I hear stories of so many people willing to drop AA and FFXIV if WoW had the option to actually make a home. And I experience so many talks with roleplayers, we want to see such happening, for we can hardly use cities without being more or less harassed by non-roleplayers.

We have a problem where we have one minority safe within the core, another just shunted away, and then between, a swarm of people flickering in and out of the core.

[deenman]

Based on what? What have you used to come to this conclusion?

based on the fact that every cosmetic feature in wow is extremly popular?>and all of them are nothing compared to what player housing could be

[arkanon]

based on the fact that every cosmetic feature in wow is extremly popular?>and all of them are nothing compared to what player housing could be

At what cost? And again, where are you getting this information from? Yes, xmog is EXTREMELY popular, but what about the rest? What other cosmetic features are you talking about? Legion weapons were extremely popular, but, were a core feature of the expansion, carried player power with them, and included the mage tower - so how can you judge which PART of the feature made it popular? Other than that, wow doesnt really have many cosmetic features.

Im willing to be proven wrong, just show me something that supports your claim. Show me ANYTHING that proves a cosmetic only player housing system would be popular, and would bring any kind of profit in for acti/blizz/microsoft. To know that, you would need to know the cost (which you dont) what would be sacrificed (garrisons cost a raid tier, and wod is widely considered the worst expansion ever, this being ONE of the reasons), how many players would be lost do to said sacrifice, and give some indication of how you see it being implemented. Its so common to see people grossly misrepresent the situation by saying "trust me, player housing is a home run" but there are countless mmo's with player housing that failed horribly. You know W* had a very in depth player housing system yeah? and more recently New World? The reason i mention these is player housing is NOT the slam dunk many claim it is.

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And I agreed with you on that, but WoW has players who stopped because WoW couldn't be their home - love everything, but they needed a bigger core, not just one minority getting the attention. I hear stories of so many people willing to drop AA and FFXIV if WoW had the option to actually make a home. And I experience so many talks with roleplayers, we want to see such happening, for we can hardly use cities without being more or less harassed by non-roleplayers.

We have a problem where we have one minority safe within the core, another just shunted away, and then between, a swarm of people flickering in and out of the core.

To be fair, i know many people who say they would drop wow in an instance if raiding / dungeons / pvp stopped being a prominent feature, so there are absolutely 2 sides to the coin. My argument remains the same - if player housing is the key feature someone is looking for in an mmo, a game that has no player housing is not for them. I am well aware that MANY people use the "play another game then dickhead" argument out of malice and an unwillingness to engage in open discussion, but i hope you dont think thats me - but i do support the idea that if player housing is important, play a game with player housing rather than asking for one without it to change, especially one thats 2 decades old.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

You mention FF a lot as a comparison - how is the PvP scene in ff?

FFXIV's PvP just got a revamp last week. It completely redid small scale PvP, added a new reward system, and redid every job's PvP toolkit. The jury's still out. I think the redone small scale PvP is a move in the right direction. Hopefully new maps and modes are added soon. Still trying to sort out my feelings on it, but I enjoyed it more than I enjoyed arenas in WoW.

The large scale PvP mode, Frontline, is still unsuitable for serious, competitive ranked/ladder play, and I'm not sure if the game will ever get one. So WoW wins in the BG department.

what about pet battles?

In WoW, pet battles are the side content with progression. FFXIV's side content with progression is the card game Triple Triad, which is pretty fun and has some challenging NPC battles. FFXIV also has a game mode that lets you use your minions (pets), but it's an RTS game rather than a 1v1 Pokemon game. It hasn't been updated in years.

What about their equivalent M+ system, is that popular?

FFXIV does not have a mythic+/fractal system. I personally hate mythic+/fractals and hope FFXIV never implements it.

[Athorha]

Why are you assuming player housing would start in cities and not being encampments created with the pc being more of a commander. This is warcraft, for all the flaws garrisons had I hope they don't ever thinking building condos downtown orgrimmar is a step up from having multiple choices of where you set your base.

[deenman]

FFXIV does not have a mythic+/fractal system. I personally hate mythic+/fractals and hope FFXIV never implements it.

i will never understand why people are against extra content that doesnt even affect you,m+ is the best thing to be done to dungeons since tbc

[Orby]

I am not sure what everyone's obsession with player housing, it, we had Garrisons, we tried it, no one liked it. Move on. I don't know what player housing can do over what Garrisons tried.

i will never understand why people are against extra content that doesnt even affect you,m+ is the best thing to be done to dungeons since tbc

Mythic killed dungeons for me, I never understood the multiple difficulty stuff, wasnt that what heroic was supposed to be for, why add so many damn layers? I was okay with Heroics in TBC but why they have to add even more levels, just notch up heroics and make them harder. Get rid of mythics, they add nothing. It doesn't help that there now is a competitive scene with mythic, another reason to hate mythic. MMO's should not have a competitive scene. Remember when world firsts were just an event that people did in game, now Blizzard make it a damn event. Everything has to be competitive, MMO's should not be a competitive sport, when you make an MMO competitive you sacrifice the RP and uniqueness of the game for 'balance'. With Arena that's fine, never had issue with arena, but now nearly every aspect of the game is competitive but I digress.

[arkanon]

FFXIV does not have a mythic+/fractal system. I personally hate mythic+/fractals and hope FFXIV never implements it.

So if someone said "wow doesnt have a player housing system, and i hope they never implement it" you would support that stance?

[Collected]

Why are you assuming player housing would start in cities and not being encampments created with the pc being more of a commander. This is warcraft, for all the flaws garrisons had I hope they don't ever thinking building condos downtown orgrimmar is a step up from having multiple choices of where you set your base.

The issue with Garrisons is they were anchored to a specific expansion zone and far away from other players. The result was players felt isolated whilst in their garrisons and the garrisons themselves couldn't be lifted and dropped into the next expansion without it feeling weird.

The argument with placing housing in cities like Org/SW is the above two issues are solved. You can walk out of your house and immediately phase into a fairly populated city and the house could cross multiple expansions without too much of an issue. Although obviously SW and Org become a lot quieter if theres a capital city/hub elsewhere, such as Dalaran. So it doesn't completely solve the issue.

The way I always imagined housing in WoW, you'd get a "quarter/area" or either Org and SW that's unique to you. When you enter it, you phase into your own version which you can customise in various ways. As soon as you leave it, you phase back into common Org and SW. Very similar to how Garrisons worked but not as isolated.

I agree with posts above that this isn't a trivial task for an engine that was never built to allow players to place items/objects on the scale that housing might require. But I disagree it's unreachable and I also disagree other features would need to be sacrificed. Blizzard clearly has the talent and the staff to build housing into WoW if they want to and judging by the Ion interview, they do want to explore it. I suspect we'll see it in the next expansion.

[arkanon]

The argument with placing housing in cities like Org/SW is the above two issues are solved..

Assuming the current expansion is based locally. Would it have worked in Wrath?

To be clear, i love player housing, but, asking for it in wow is like asking for sim physics in forza horizon, or realistic physics in CoD, or hardcore raiding in minecraft.

[Usernameforforums]

Player housing, while a great concept, just doesnt fit WoW. WoW has always been about the world. What was the garrison systems number one complaint? It was that it kept you in the garrison alone instead of being in the world. Number two was that it didnt have enough customization like ph would.

Now guild housing would work. Have the guild work towards making the gh better. If they start with anything, it should be guild housing.

[deenman]

I am not sure what everyone's obsession with player housing, it, we had Garrisons, we tried it, no one liked it. Move on. I don't know what player housing can do over what Garrisons tried.



Mythic killed dungeons for me, I never understood the multiple difficulty stuff, wasnt that what heroic was supposed to be for, why add so many damn layers? I was okay with Heroics in TBC but why they have to add even more levels, just notch up heroics and make them harder. Get rid of mythics, they add nothing. It doesn't help that there now is a competitive scene with mythic, another reason to hate mythic. MMO's should not have a competitive scene. Remember when world firsts were just an event that people did in game, now Blizzard make it a damn event. Everything has to be competitive, MMO's should not be a competitive sport, when you make an MMO competitive you sacrifice the RP and uniqueness of the game for 'balance'. With Arena that's fine, never had issue with arena, but now nearly every aspect of the game is competitive but I digress.

First of all blizzard doesnt make events for world firsts thats all player driven

Listen to yourself,saying the existance of harder dungeons adds nothing,thats completly nonsensical...

harder heroics isnt going to be enough,remember wrath and cata added harder end of expansion dungeons,they still become easy with gear

m+ keeps dungeons relevant all around,and with seasonal themes they are even better,tbc was the last time dungeons were fun for me until m+ came along

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Player housing, while a great concept, just doesnt fit WoW. WoW has always been about the world. What was the garrison systems number one complaint? It was that it kept you in the garrison alone instead of being in the world. Number two was that it didnt have enough customization like ph would.

Now guild housing would work. Have the guild work towards making the gh better. If they start with anything, it should be guild housing.

guild housing is a fine idea also,but i dont see how your not contradicting yourself by saying player housing doesnt fit but guild ones do?

also the world can be made more alive with player housing,they could make every city/zone have special alocated lots to put houses with all kinds of arhitectures and furniture etc that you collect from all kinds of content,even a profession can be made for it

[arkanon]

First of all blizzard doesnt make events for world firsts thats all player driven

Listen to yourself,saying the existance of harder dungeons adds nothing,thats completly nonsensical...

harder heroics isnt going to be enough,remember wrath and cata added harder end of expansion dungeons,they still become easy with gear

m+ keeps dungeons relevant all around,and with seasonal themes they are even better,tbc was the last time dungeons were fun for me until m+ came along

I dont play atm, and M+ is not a motivator for me personally, but i see a lot of benifit in the foundations they have laid for including most dungeons from wows history (at least from cata onwards) in the pool. I love timewalking, but it was always either too easy (dungeons) or totally fucked (raids)

[deenman]

I dont play atm, and M+ is not a motivator for me personally, but i see a lot of benifit in the foundations they have laid for including most dungeons from wows history (at least from cata onwards) in the pool. I love timewalking, but it was always either too easy (dungeons) or totally fucked (raids)

the only negative thing i see is how it can sometimes end up feeling like people are forced in to content they dont enjoy to perform better in the content they do,like how you had to do m+ to have better gear for raids in legion,or had to pvp to be better in raiding etc

i wish all 3 activities had a specific stat limited only for those places(that all worked outdoors the same),i know some people dont like this,its why they didnt like resilience because it made it harder to jump from one activity to the next,but i think this would overall be less of a burden on players than feeling forced to do what you dont enjoy

[Plehnard]

The only city I would've liked to have a house in does not exist any more.

[TheRevenantHero]

Blizzard would rather release a class that no playable race can pick up than introduce housing. It's fucking stupid.

[Orby]

Listen to yourself,saying the existance of harder dungeons adds nothing,thats completly nonsensical...

harder heroics isnt going to be enough,remember wrath and cata added harder end of expansion dungeons,they still become easy with gear

But I said harder dungeons are fine, that's why we have heroics, why do we need Mythics? And yes dungeons did become easier with gear back then, that's called progress. I dont want to have to do the same dungeon in 50 different modes in an endless grind to get gear with an extra +1 stat. I miss when dungeons had the gear you wanted, and when you got the gear you no longer needed to go there you felt like you completed something. This idea that you have to farm constantly for the same item of gear for only a few points higher isn't fun to me.

MMO are not hack and slash looters like Diablo. It's an MMO and I do feel WoW has become more obsessed with countless loot over what an MMO is. One of the many reasons I don't play anymore because I feel MMO's (not just WoW) have forgotten what an MMO is. I don't current play MMO's in general anymore because I feel a lot of them have alienated what I first loved about the genre. I want an end goal that isnt me farming the same dungeon 40 times.

I know my breed are dead in the MMO space but I personally would prefer a single mode, with loads of bosses and mini bosses with a steady stream of loot for everyone. Maybe, just maybe have a heroic version. But Mythics can go suck an egg. Hate them and what they stand for..

[deenman]

But I said harder dungeons are fine, that's why we have heroics, why do we need Mythics? And yes dungeons did become easier with gear back then, that's called progress. I dont want to have to do the same dungeon in 50 different modes in an endless grind to get gear with an extra +1 stat. I miss when dungeons had the gear you wanted, and when you got the gear you no longer needed to go there you felt like you completed something. This idea that you have to farm constantly for the same item of gear for only a few points higher isn't fun to me.

MMO are not hack and slash looters like Diablo. It's an MMO and I do feel WoW has become more obsessed with countless loot over what an MMO is. One of the many reasons I don't play anymore because I feel MMO's (not just WoW) have forgotten what an MMO is. I don't current play MMO's in general anymore because I feel a lot of them have alienated what I first loved about the genre. I want an end goal that isnt me farming the same dungeon 40 times.

I know my breed are dead in the MMO space but I personally would prefer a single mode, with loads of bosses and mini bosses with a steady stream of loot for everyone. Maybe, just maybe have a heroic version. But Mythics can go suck an egg. Hate them and what they stand for..

well good then,because m+ offers plenty more progression

also again,why do you think more content is bad?if all you enjoy is heroic dungens,you can just stop at that,no1 is forcing you to go further,why do you want to take content away from others??

my issue is when raiders feel forced in to doing m+.thats what i would like to not be the case,or vice versa