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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    It has nothing to do with whether or not I like flying; I have no problem with flying. The problem is that if flying exists, I’m going to use it, even if a more fun alternative is available.

    Lots of people are like this, I’d argue most of us are not going to actively make the game harder for ourselves just for the sake of if. That’s why it’s important that it isn’t a choice; because the majority of us will never experience it the intended way if there’s such a convenient alternative.

    You could argue for the inclusion of cheat/god modes into literally video game because it doesn’t affect others, but the experience of the game would be diluted for many players because they’d be suckered In to a less appealing game style before just quitting entirely.
    Pretty much this. The fact that it exists ruins a part of the game for me.

  2. #102
    Old God Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    They said there will be flying mobs and dangers throughout the islands that will chase you down and dismount you if you aren't on a dragon. Or some areas will be above a flight limit your OG flying mounts can go to. In these situations you take the dragon. Any other time sounds like you can mount up on whatever.

    Sounds fun, actual content that isn't stuck to the ground and actual flying mobs that don't just hover 5 feet off the ground

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    They said there will be flying mobs and dangers throughout the islands that will chase you down and dismount you if you aren't on a dragon.
    What if i am on a dragon but not on one of the new dragons? I have like 30 dragon mounts.

  4. #104
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    I will never understand the pro-flying mindset. Yay, skipping all the danger on the ground by flying over it... So fun...

    Dragon Riding feels more like an evolution of the flying mounts that you could rent in Northrend as zones like Storm Peaks were designed around flight. And from what they've said we can expect a lot of verticality in Dragon Isles zones as well.
    Some people can´t play hours every day. So spending, literally, hours on transportation, being dazed, killing useless mobs, etc, is not a good way to actually have a player base.

    That is the core real issue with no flying allowed.

    I do see your point, and my 15 years old ago version of me agrees. Today´s version disagrees. The difference? being able to play 10 hours a week today vs being able to play 40+ 15 years ago.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    I will never understand the pro-flying mindset. Yay, skipping all the danger on the ground by flying over it... So fun...

    Dragon Riding feels more like an evolution of the flying mounts that you could rent in Northrend as zones like Storm Peaks were designed around flight. And from what they've said we can expect a lot of verticality in Dragon Isles zones as well.
    What danger on the ground though? Even back in Classic / TBC there wasn't much danger. At worst you might get dismounted but unless you were severely undergeared you've never been in much danger of dying in WoW.
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  6. #106
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    I don't trust blizzard to make dragonriding fun. From the clip we saw it doesn't look any different from normal flying.

    Only one lame dragon mount all the time really does suck.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    I will never understand the pro-flying mindset. Yay, skipping all the danger on the ground by flying over it... So fun...

    Bruhh..

    If there's still danger on the ground by the time you unlock flying. You're bad. You should feel bad. And you should probably get gud...scrub.

  8. #108
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    I will never understand the pro-flying mindset. Yay, skipping all the danger on the ground by flying over it... So fun...
    And I've never understood the anti-options mindset. Nobody is preventing you from using only ground mounts. More power to you.

    As far as flying goes, I personally wouldn't mind if it went away *if* Blizz stopped with the insanely stupid unclimbable wall, maze, densely mob-packed designs. I know at least part of the desire for flying is because of the sheer frustration of seeing a mob or node that is out of reach just a few feet away, or having to travel consistently from A to B to C to D to E instead of A to E directly (usually fighting all the way anymore). Again, if you like the hassle, more power to you...but why be against the option?

    Alternatively, Blizz *could* do what they used to do...finish building all the environments to account for flying and actually design the game to account for flying. Even more interesting, Blizz *could* actually embrace and enhance flying to include fighting on mounts, etc.

    Dragon Riding isn't remotely an evolution of flying...it's ground mounts with gliders attached for the most part. It continues to support the Blizz laziness of smaller zones, with insanely stupid unclimbable walls, maze designs, and probably densely mob-packed...all to provide the illusion of content, but which most players will recognize as a meaningless grind just to do simple things.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Pretty much this. The fact that it exists ruins a part of the game for me.
    The part of the game where you run by everything to get to what you want anyway?

    Just because you lack the self-control to play the game in a way that's enjoyable for you, do you and your kind want to remove something from everyone else?

    Yea that makes sense. Real big brain play here gentlemen.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    The part of the game where you run by everything to get to what you want anyway?

    Just because you lack the self-control to play the game in a way that's enjoyable for you, do you and your kind want to remove something from everyone else?

    Yea that makes sense. Real big brain play here gentlemen.
    You’re being naive if you think this has anything to do with self control.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Pretty much this. The fact that it exists ruins a part of the game for me.
    the fact I can't free fly ruins the all-new content for me - see how selfish that sounds? at least with flying, you have the choice without I have no way of enjoying that part of the game. I'm hoping Dragonflight turns into a decent compromise since they have failed to make flying part of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    But this is objectively false for many people. You might not agree, but there are many reasons as to why players prefer games where there isn’t so much freedom of choice right off the bat.

    It does have an impact on our enjoyment of the game and it has nothing to do with us wanting to rob the fun from anyone else.

    It has nothing to do with whether or not I like flying; I have no problem with flying. The problem is that if flying exists, I’m going to use it, even if a more fun alternative is available.

    Lots of people are like this, I’d argue most of us are not going to actively make the game harder for ourselves just for the sake of if. That’s why it’s important that it isn’t a choice; because the majority of us will never experience it the intended way if there’s such a convenient alternative.

    You could argue for the inclusion of cheat/god modes into literally video game because it doesn’t affect others, but the experience of the game would be diluted for many players because they’d be suckered In to a less appealing game style before just quitting entirely.

    I’m all for stuff like that existing, but only if you first unlock it in the game after playing it the intended way and experiencing it fully.

    Picking what you want for dinner is a choice, but choosing between dragon riding and flying is like choosing between a gourmet meal and a plate of boiled rice; it’s a choice, but not really. If someone wants me to try the rice, it better be the only option available.
    its not factual at all; me on a flying mount has zero impact on your gameplay other than a lack of discipline to not fly also, and do something you don't enjoy in-game. I don't enjoy M+ so don't run it, does it hurt my character yep... even cost me a raid spot a while back but oh well I don't like it. Heck, if it was my sole decision would remove it. But its not and others enjoy it so let it be.

    Again I hope dragon flight keeps flying fun, and makes it part of gameplay. I've long said they should add flying mobs, and ground mobs that could pull you out of the sky, as well as limiting height with fatigue like swimming if you got too high. The world is so much larger,fun and relaxing in the air.
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  12. #112
    That's weird. From what I understand, you van still fly in every other continent. So flying mounts can still fly. Just not on the Dragon Isles.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    You really think that there should be an option to do absolutely everything? I can’t think of a more boring game. There has to be limitations in place from time to time, otherwise every game becomes creative mode minecraft.

    This goes back to the Elden Ring easy mode discussion, where those that want it don’t see the harm that it does, which is nothing short of obscenely ignorant.

    Having more choices is not always a good thing. Neither is being overly restricted, there’s a good middle ground to strike. Having flying in the game means that the vast majority will fly regardless of how they feel about it unless they’re some sort of roleplayer. It is not a choice when the alternative is significantly more inconvenient. I mean, it is a choice, but only in the same way that you can choose to eat glass for dinner if you so desire.

    The fun of figuring out how to navigate the world exists for many players; but if the option to fly exists then they will take that path 99.9999% of the time. It’s natural human behaviour.
    If you have flying, you have an option not to fly. You might not be willing to take it because your principles die at the fork in the road between convenience, but you can.

    If flying is not possible, what option does somebody who does want to fly have?

    Exactly. Anti-flyers are supremely egotistical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    You're not pro-choice. You're pro-illusion-of-choice. When other players can fly, you're handicapping yourself when you choose not to. And everyone with more than 1 braincell knows that WoW players will pick whatever is most optimal instead of fun.

    You put yourself on a pedestal by pretending you're pro-choice/pro-player agency, but you're really not. You're just using those as arguments because you want to fly.
    Same goes for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deventh View Post
    Not just that, but you literally skip all the world building that Blizzard spent years on creating, all the interactions you might have with other players and making the world feel alive and an actual mmorpg instead of empty singleplayer. Flying ruined this game and I will never stop saying it.
    Yeah, walking past that same log in the road on your way from world quest #12 to world quest #13 for the millionth time that month is so profound.. so.. immersive. I even gave that log a name. Top worldbuilding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bwgmon View Post
    Unfortunately, trying to add any kind of engaging mechanic will result in something less versatile than what is essentially a noclip tool. Hell, some people scream bloody murder when they're reminded that hostile birds are capable of chasing them in the air.

    It's crazy how angry some folks get over the idea of having something to do while traveling beyond "check twitter for a minute or something idk."
    Meanwhile in reality land, when not offered flying, most people opt to put on the "no-daze" mount equipment or go into their tank spec so they can mindlessly run through packs of mobs to their destination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    They are both bland, wow isn't any better. With re/g shade they actually look better than wow ones.
    This. No WoW zone has really made me go "WOW!" since Warlords of Draenor and Shadowmoon Valley. Especially since the newer zones look like uprezzed/merged versions of zones we've already seen.

  14. #114
    Brewmaster Jekyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyviroth View Post
    That's weird. From what I understand, you van still fly in every other continent. So flying mounts can still fly. Just not on the Dragon Isles.
    here, something flew above your head. It made a whooshing sound.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    You’re being naive if you think this has anything to do with self control.
    It does.

    You're not actually at a notable disadvantage by not flying except maybe if you're a herbalist lol.

    Somebody isn't going to majorly ahead of you in terms of character progression just because they fly to a world quest or a raid portal and you run- nay, even /walk there.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    If you have flying, you have an option not to fly. You might not be willing to take it because your principles die at the fork in the road between convenience, but you can.

    If flying is not possible, what option does somebody who does want to fly have?

    Exactly. Anti-flyers are supremely egotistical.



    Same goes for you.

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    Yeah, walking past that same log in the road on your way from world quest #12 to world quest #13 for the millionth time that month is so profound.. so.. immersive. I even gave that log a name. Top worldbuilding.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Meanwhile in reality land, when not offered flying, most people opt to put on the "no-daze" mount equipment or go into their tank spec so they can mindlessly run through packs of mobs to their destination.

    - - - Updated - - -


    This. No WoW zone has really made me go "WOW!" since Warlords of Draenor and Shadowmoon Valley. Especially since the newer zones look like uprezzed/merged versions of zones we've already seen.
    I feel the same way I do about this as an Elden Ring easy mode; you can agree or disagree, but it’s not like I’m the only one that feels this way.

    The point is, we want different things, and saying ‘oh let’s just put everything into the game’ goes directly against what literally millions of us want in a video game.

    It has literally nothing to do with self control, the game is just less enjoyable for me when it’s designed this way.

    Frankly, the people putting us into the group of selfish and egotistical are being exceptionally ignorant to what we consider the problem to be.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    I feel the same way I do about this as an Elden Ring easy mode; you can agree or disagree, but it’s not like I’m the only one that feels this way.

    The point is, we want different things, and saying ‘oh let’s just put everything into the game’ goes directly against what literally millions of us want in a video game.

    It has literally nothing to do with self control, the game is just less enjoyable for me when it’s designed this way.
    Alright. And I'm sure you don't use any no-daze mount equipment or tank spec to run through packs of mobs on the way to your destination and instead diligently kill every little mob you aggro-- of course.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Alright. And I'm sure you don't use any no-daze mount equipment or tank spec to run through packs of mobs on the way to your destination and instead diligently kill every little mob you aggro-- of course.
    Not sure what you’re trying to say here? Why would I not use any of that stuff? If the game offers it I’m going to use it. Just like flying.

    I could not use it, but why would I? I feel like I’ve missed what you’re saying here.

    Look, I just don’t think always having unlimited choice is always good; there’s a time and place for it. How is that not reasonable?
    Last edited by Zypherz; 2022-04-26 at 02:04 PM.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    Not sure what you’re trying to say here? Why would I not use any of that stuff? If the game offers it I’m going to use it. Just like flying.

    I could not use it, but why would I?
    So those have to be removed too, right?

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    So those have to be removed too, right?
    No because the developers have intended us to experience the content this way?

    I’m not saying there should literally never be a choice. That’s retarded. I’m saying that there’s a time and place for both, but many here seem to think there should never not be one.

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