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  1. #361
    Pit Lord Omians's Avatar
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    Well its not going to be the same as the old talents. Not going to have a bunch of + stats instead filled with Passive Mechanic changes and Clickable abilities.

    hope they finish up the previews and release them to the public soon
    Omians- 60 Troll Enhancement shaman, Emerald Dream

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Gloriandus View Post
    I saw those trees and immediately thought, "Oh no, button bloat incoming?". Granted, I was one of the weirdos who LIKED the "great prune" in Legion.
    the prune was in wod and it was bad. especially for pvp and doing anything else then your DPS/HPS Rotation in PvE Raidbossfights.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    As paladin tank, we got the cool things rolled into our spec after each expansion. Like the effect of the Legendary legs. Here's hoping divine toll finds its way into the tree, because I love it.
    Honestly the tankadin tree is one of the few were almost every talent is worthwhile. Having to choose between Holy Shield and Blessed Hammer or First Avenger and Crusader's Judgment makes me sad I hope I can at least have both of the first two in the new tree.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by saixilein View Post
    the prune was in wod and it was bad. especially for pvp and doing anything else then your DPS/HPS Rotation in PvE Raidbossfights.
    Some specs were pruned hard in WoD, others got hit in Legion, and some got both.

  5. #365
    As a guy who started on Cataclysm, I will need to re-learn how to use the old talents style, maybe will not be the same as we already know.

  6. #366
    So, after seeing the talents, I do have a few thoughts.

    First one is, we can't give better feedback as a community unless we see them all. I say that because it's very apparent to me from looking at these that the Druid is way more rigid in its ability to allow you to mix and match your talents than DK by quite a bit. I easily identified three or four unique builds for DK from just the class talent tree, let alone the spec trees. Whereas Druid is very much "here is your spec and you have to go straight down this tree before anything else." So, it's hard to have a good picture of how well executed the talent trees really are.

    One big thing that frustrated me was the arbitrary restrictions on being able to go further in the tree until after you've spent 8 and 20 points into the tree on the whole. It didn't change or stop any builds for me, it just irritated me. That restriction serves no purpose, the big restriction that makes the builds unique is the fact that you have to follow paths.

    On the whole though, this is the first time I've actually been interested in DF as an expansion. The trees actually look interesting and fun. And the fact we can save builds and just swap them out is a big deal.

  7. #367
    I think a lot of people are missing the point of the new talent system, it's meant to return the feeling of satisisfaction you get when you level up and get to spend talent points. Probably due to the success of classic remastered and Diablo 2.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Polygons View Post
    I think a lot of people are missing the point of the new talent system, it's meant to return the feeling of satisisfaction you get when you level up and get to spend talent points. Probably due to the success of classic remastered and Diablo 2.
    Big talent tree ... yeah i like it, but you saw what they showed us today? ....same OLD SHIT->JUST OLD TALENTS PLACED IN FORM OF TREE.


    All hope to get new shiny stuff died.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Polygons View Post
    I think a lot of people are missing the point of the new talent system, it's meant to return the feeling of satisisfaction you get when you level up and get to spend talent points. Probably due to the success of classic remastered and Diablo 2.
    Call me crazy but maybe they could come up with something that doesn't sacrifice systems used during 99% of your character's lifespan to slightly improve the 1% you spend leveling.

    Stuffing the tree full of filler talents just so people "feel good" when they get a level ding sounds like about the most backwards reasoning I could ever imagine.

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Polygons View Post
    I think a lot of people are missing the point of the new talent system, it's meant to return the feeling of satisisfaction you get when you level up and get to spend talent points. Probably due to the success of classic remastered and Diablo 2.
    I felt absolutely zero satisfaction when I leveled up and my reward was a choice between +2% damage on Sinister Strike and Eviscerate or +3 weapon skill on swords, fists and daggers.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Selah View Post
    So, after seeing the talents, I do have a few thoughts.

    First one is, we can't give better feedback as a community unless we see them all. I say that because it's very apparent to me from looking at these that the Druid is way more rigid in its ability to allow you to mix and match your talents than DK by quite a bit. I easily identified three or four unique builds for DK from just the class talent tree, let alone the spec trees. Whereas Druid is very much "here is your spec and you have to go straight down this tree before anything else." So, it's hard to have a good picture of how well executed the talent trees really are.

    One big thing that frustrated me was the arbitrary restrictions on being able to go further in the tree until after you've spent 8 and 20 points into the tree on the whole. It didn't change or stop any builds for me, it just irritated me. That restriction serves no purpose, the big restriction that makes the builds unique is the fact that you have to follow paths.

    On the whole though, this is the first time I've actually been interested in DF as an expansion. The trees actually look interesting and fun. And the fact we can save builds and just swap them out is a big deal.
    I think a lot of people are upset that they might be regurgitating the same stuff we've had in our baseline but as talents. They'd rather want new things, not the same thing we've seen in the past 3 expansions. Or worse.. having to be pruned of all their abilities but given a choice to pick different things. The only new thing I saw was in druids where they get Mark of the Wild again, but they still get Convoke from SL as a talent.. and DK get the Abomination Limb ability back as well.

    It's also worth noting that they never said anything about how classes will play or if we get new spells.. we're just getting an overhauled talent tree. So they just wanted to show us how these talent trees work. I'd very much want to see new stuff, but I can't think of anything new to add and I don't think even Blizz knows how to change up the gameplay of some specs... or if they even need to be changed. I mean I know S-Priests got a rework in how Voidform works which improved it greatly in the SL beta compared to how it was in BfA.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    I think a lot of people are upset that they might be regurgitating the same stuff we've had in our baseline but as talents. They'd rather want new things, not the same thing we've seen in the past 3 expansions. Or worse.. having to be pruned of all their abilities but given a choice to pick different things. The only new thing I saw was in druids where they get Mark of the Wild again, but they still get Convoke from SL as a talent.. and DK get the Abomination Limb ability back as well.

    It's also worth noting that they never said anything about how classes will play or if we get new spells.. we're just getting an overhauled talent tree. So they just wanted to show us how these talent trees work. I'd very much want to see new stuff, but I can't think of anything new to add and I don't think even Blizz knows how to change up the gameplay of some specs... or if they even need to be changed. I mean I know S-Priests got a rework in how Voidform works which improved it greatly in the SL beta compared to how it was in BfA.
    Druids are getting quite a bit of SL stuff. 3 or 4 legendaries are in each spec tree, and Adaptive Swarm made it in as well as Convoke. Berserk also appears to have received a few optional buffs for Feral. I also saw some Anima power based stuff around form switching which hasn't been playable in regular content before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
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    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    I think a lot of people are upset that they might be regurgitating the same stuff we've had in our baseline but as talents. They'd rather want new things, not the same thing we've seen in the past 3 expansions. Or worse.. having to be pruned of all their abilities but given a choice to pick different things. The only new thing I saw was in druids where they get Mark of the Wild again, but they still get Convoke from SL as a talent.. and DK get the Abomination Limb ability back as well.
    And I get that, but this is a bit of an apples to oranges scenario because we're getting 31 class points and 30 spec points. That's eight and half times more talent points. Not to mention these talents points fundamentally operate differently than what we've had since MoP. These are meant to be able to tune how the classes work under the hood instead augment how classes function baseline.

    All that to say is this a replacement not an addition. But, while it's a replacement I do see it expanding what classes can currently do based on just these trees alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    It's also worth noting that they never said anything about how classes will play or if we get new spells.. we're just getting an overhauled talent tree. So they just wanted to show us how these talent trees work. I'd very much want to see new stuff, but I can't think of anything new to add and I don't think even Blizz knows how to change up the gameplay of some specs... or if they even need to be changed. I mean I know S-Priests got a rework in how Voidform works which improved it greatly in the SL beta compared to how it was in BfA.
    I can understand wanting something new. I would argue that these trees by themselves are going to open up a lot of new options for players, and does so by utilizing the existing toolkits for the classes. A really good example of that is the fact that you can comfortably get two of those capstone abilities in those class trees without issue. To me, that more than enough satisfies the desire for new things to play with. And, the beauty is, when 11.0 is released and the increase the level cap, even if they didn't add anything to the talents, the additional few talent points is going to get the players more abilities and unique builds to try out.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Selah View Post
    And I get that, but this is a bit of an apples to oranges scenario because we're getting 31 class points and 30 spec points. That's eight and half times more talent points. Not to mention these talents points fundamentally operate differently than what we've had since MoP. These are meant to be able to tune how the classes work under the hood instead augment how classes function baseline.

    All that to say is this a replacement not an addition. But, while it's a replacement I do see it expanding what classes can currently do based on just these trees alone.



    I can understand wanting something new. I would argue that these trees by themselves are going to open up a lot of new options for players, and does so by utilizing the existing toolkits for the classes. A really good example of that is the fact that you can comfortably get two of those capstone abilities in those class trees without issue. To me, that more than enough satisfies the desire for new things to play with. And, the beauty is, when 11.0 is released and the increase the level cap, even if they didn't add anything to the talents, the additional few talent points is going to get the players more abilities and unique builds to try out.
    It won't open up any options beyond the same options the old talent trees did. Spec properly or get kicked.

    I will bet you a million wow gold that In the first two weeks there will be a weak aura or nod that does this and players filter out snowflakes from groups.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Gloriandus View Post
    I saw those trees and immediately thought, "Oh no, button bloat incoming?". Granted, I was one of the weirdos who LIKED the "great prune" in Legion.
    With the exception of how slow the GCD is, FF14 gameplay, mechanically, is far superior to wow because of how many buttons go into a typical rotation IMO. If they can somehow get button bloat in there AND get more buttons into the rotation AND up the APM back to pre-BFA days (~120 APM for a lot of classes) AND not fuck the story up any more than they already have, they could have a winner game with the other changes they've made. But that's not happening.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I will bet you a million wow gold that In the first two weeks there will be a weak aura or nod that does this and players filter out snowflakes from groups.
    There have been numerous times in wow history RECENTLY where either different talent choices or different builds all performed within such a small margin of error that it comes down to player preference and ability to execute on the strategy, so it's not like there's absolutely always one cookie cutter.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    It won't open up any options beyond the same options the old talent trees did.
    That's untrue just based on the functionality of the trees alone. But what I think you're trying to say is that this won't open up additional options at high end content, which is something we're really not going to know until we see what the endgame of DF looks like with these trees. Of course that then opens up the conversation about cookie cutter builds, which will always exist regardless of how flawless a character option system may be - but that doesn't mean the system is a poor idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Spec properly or get kicked.
    This is only something that applies to PUG content, and only sometimes at that. If your DPS/survivability/healing is where it should be then people on the whole won't particularly care about your talent choices as long as it doesn't hamstring the group you're playing with. If you're playing with a guild or group of people you have a good repertoire with and you're competent this reasoning won't be applied.


    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I will bet you a million wow gold that In the first two weeks there will be a weak aura or nod that does this and players filter out snowflakes from groups.
    I wouldn't be surprised, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.

  17. #377
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    I was hoping maybe they'd mix it up a bit but no, these basically watered down classic talents. Basically spending points to get what we got passively in the past.

  18. #378
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Druids are getting quite a bit of SL stuff. 3 or 4 legendaries are in each spec tree, and Adaptive Swarm made it in as well as Convoke. Berserk also appears to have received a few optional buffs for Feral. I also saw some Anima power based stuff around form switching which hasn't been playable in regular content before.
    In otherwords... nothing new. Its entirely possible they'll give us new spells but not having any talents interact with them is shitty as well. Nothing about this is exciting. Now I have to actually choose to take tranquility. Are you fucking kidding me?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by LuxTheGamer View Post
    They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
    I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.
    The problem I've got with it is more that it's just an illusion on some level... it'll have way more options but if the game is still the same as before than it's just more options for the same end result. PvP it'll be wonderful because of the options and variations but for PvE... if the bosses and mechanics are all still rooted in a foundation of math (x dps = x boss health = defeat) it'll just be a ton of options but "these options are optimal" for this boss etc. etc. etc. ad naseum.

    So once everything is mathed out for PvE it'll just become this annoying task of swapping talents from encounter to encounter and the min/max people will need a Weakaura or spreadsheet to remember their layouts from boss to boss.

    I can't imagine much changing in the future in regards to PvE but I imagine at first it'll be a fresh breath of air but once most people are working on progression in a raid or M+ it'll become tedious, annoying and boring.

  20. #380
    The Patient Supertoster's Avatar
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    Revealed system is stupid. Blizz just did their beloved trick: they took old stuff, reshaped it into a "new" form in a way, that will left players with even less choices and content than before.
    New system forces players to choose between having only left leg or only right leg, while players had both of their legs for years. They are still your old legs, but now there is an "engaging and interesting decision" between them.
    I will never understand people who call this "new" system good or interesting. This is some kind of delusional fanboyism.

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