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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Supertoster View Post
    Revealed system is stupid. Blizz just did their beloved trick: they took old stuff, reshaped it into a "new" form in a way, that will left players with even less choices and content than before.
    New system forces players to choose between having only left leg or only right leg, while players had both of their legs for years. They are still your old legs, but now there is an "engaging and interesting decision" between them.
    I will never understand people who call this "new" system good or interesting. This is some kind of delusional fanboyism.
    This is supposed to be a redesign of our current system to be more engaging. If you don't think it is you will have to present an argument as to why. And atleast in the specs I play these new trees are allowing me to get combinations of talents/powers I couldn't before. There are also new nodes that didn't exist in any form before... so we are getting new things.

    Obviously most of the tree is going to be existing talents/powers/spells. If it was a whole new tree on top of our current list of effects we would be back to having like a billion spells/cooldowns/defensives. Are there problems with the new trees, yes of course. Are there going to be cookie cutter specs... of course but there is more choice and more combinations of things we couldn't have before.
    Last edited by Elbob; 2022-06-05 at 03:03 AM.

  2. #382
    I seriously weary of this new talent system after seeing it, it feels like they are stripping baseline abilities of what we currently have and giving you it back as a talent "choice" it would not surprise me if the added stats are not being treated the same like removing 6% damage of said ability from the base only to give you it back through a talent giving you the illusion of choice.

  3. #383
    i really dislike the new system, it seems to do everything wrong.

    they disassembled the already over-pruned SLands classes and put the abilities onto talent trees, then gave us nowhere near enough points to actually make an interesting class.

    As it stands right now there should be either a lot more "general talent" points or there should be a lot less filler on the general talent trees.
    By the time we spend the general talent points to stitch the class back together into a competitive form we got no leftover points for anything fun.
    Last edited by Aleksej89; 2022-06-05 at 04:26 PM.

  4. #384
    Now that i had a play with the calculator i have to admit they are underwhelming.
    I don't really think there are good decisions to make here. It will all come down to simming what gives the most DPS. But, as they will force overall balance, if you are losing utilities to get the most DPS that will be equivalent to everyone else, that is not an interesting choice because you just got weaker.
    Also, pretty bad choices like being forced to get an ability you don't want to reach another.

    I think that at the end of the day, these trees are useless and a waste of resources. We are not actually gaining anything from these. I think this is an unnecessary change and the current talent system is simply better.

    Anyways, as i know they never turn the boat around once they decide something... Utilities and basic abilities should just be baseline. In spec trees having to use a talent to get basic utilities is just dumb. There is no decision there.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2022-06-05 at 04:41 PM.

  5. #385
    What would have been better is just give a talent of cosmetic options that would give some uniqueness this is not that.

  6. #386
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    The talent tree shouldn't have been swapped out to begin with.

    Changing to "6 picks to make your build" is the most dumbing down they've ever done.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  7. #387
    Old God Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    It is all the same stuff we already had just reshuffled around and presented to us in a way that makes us think we can design our characters in a more RPG sense.

    RPG designing your character is not "Do I want X% more damage here or here?" that is essentially mathematical progression of your character, RPG designing your character means... "Do I want to use ice spells more than fire spells?" "Can I fight with a spear instead of a sword?"

    End of the day, all this talent system is doing is letting players crunch in numbers and press buttons that were originally an automated task within the current talent system.

    but I do think it will be refreshing if they let us create trybrid characters again picking abilities from all 3 specs of our class (doubtful!)
    Last edited by Al Gorefiend; 2022-06-05 at 05:08 PM.

  8. #388
    If they take away my baseline abilities I've had for years or even a decade+ and then make me choose between having just one or the other, I may just stop altogether. We need to get back to MoP-era amounts of abilities and gameplay depth. This is seemingly going the exact opposite way.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    It is all the same stuff we already had just reshuffled around and presented to us in a way that makes us think we can design our characters in a more RPG sense.

    RPG designing your character is not "Do I want X% more damage here or here?" that is essentially mathematical progression of your character, RPG designing your character means... "Do I want to use ice spells more than fire spells?" "Can I fight with a spear instead of a sword?"

    End of the day, all this talent system is doing is letting players crunch in numbers and press buttons that were originally an automated task within the current talent system.

    but I do think it will be refreshing if they let us create trybrid characters again picking abilities from all 3 specs of our class (doubtful!)
    So you are saying it was possible to get Empower Rune Weapon as Blood in shadowlands? It was not. There are many more options with the new trees than we have now.

  10. #390
    What annoys me is that when this was presented they said it would have little throughput in the main tree and little utility in the spec tree. And it has a ton of both.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Honestly the tankadin tree is one of the few were almost every talent is worthwhile. Having to choose between Holy Shield and Blessed Hammer or First Avenger and Crusader's Judgment makes me sad I hope I can at least have both of the first two in the new tree.
    That means that row is designed well. You're supposed to have feelings over needing to choose.
    And since the spec works perfectly fine with only one of the options, it's a good talent row decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2
    People who don't buy the deluxe edition should be permanently banned. I'm sick of playing with poor people.

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    So you are saying it was possible to get Empower Rune Weapon as Blood in shadowlands? It was not. There are many more options with the new trees than we have now.
    I mean can you get that without sacrificing a good part of your actual spec's abilities though?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    That means that row is designed well. You're supposed to have feelings over needing to choose.
    And since the spec works perfectly fine with only one of the options, it's a good talent row decision.
    Oh yeah, I don't disagree with that. Tankadins have a decent tree and I switch talents around depending on what I'm doing already which should be the goal of a good design. Was just saying it's possible we might get two of the same row in the new tree.
    The spec trees are not really that bad. I wish they did not have that much utility in them but they seem much better than the class trees.

  13. #393
    So glad the brain dead talents are going away. Might filter out these types of players too. Maybe get back that 12.6 million subs they had? Who knows. Good riddance.

  14. #394
    For those that prefer the MoP style talents, do you then want them to continue to keep borrowed powers? I have not seen this mentioned, but the main reason for this new tree is to allow further additions to it for future expansions and not having our spells taken away. The sense of progression while leveling id say is more a nice perk.

    However they haven’t included any new spells that were accustomed via borrowers power, which is a bit disappointing.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Selah View Post
    One big thing that frustrated me was the arbitrary restrictions on being able to go further in the tree until after you've spent 8 and 20 points into the tree on the whole. It didn't change or stop any builds for me, it just irritated me. That restriction serves no purpose, the big restriction that makes the builds unique is the fact that you have to follow paths.
    This is probably for balancing reasons more than anything. It's just so you can't beeline down to all the strongest nodes or whatever.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    I seriously weary of this new talent system after seeing it, it feels like they are stripping baseline abilities of what we currently have and giving you it back as a talent "choice" it would not surprise me if the added stats are not being treated the same like removing 6% damage of said ability from the base only to give you it back through a talent giving you the illusion of choice.
    The old talent trees were effectively packed into classes when they turned to the MoP system. So it makes sense returning talent trees would take these buffs and turn them back into talents.

  17. #397
    The Lightbringer Skayth's Avatar
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    Lmao. Fucking knew it. What I afraid was gonna happen is happening.

    Legit they are doing status quo of powers currently available in some sort of way and adding them as talents. Nothing new is coming, at least in terms of end tier talents at least from what it looks like.

    Of course some classes may get some differences, but I fully suspect legendary procs and tiers to be fully baked in, and almost nothing new to stand out beyond "customization" but even that doesn't seem likely, at least with how the rows seem configured.

    Ah well. Still better than the current talents system. But i wonder how they will do my class (dh) with already bare bones? Demons bite and chaos strike only? Lol.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Skayth View Post
    Lmao. Fucking knew it. What I afraid was gonna happen is happening.

    Legit they are doing status quo of powers currently available in some sort of way and adding them as talents. Nothing new is coming, at least in terms of end tier talents at least from what it looks like.

    Of course some classes may get some differences, but I fully suspect legendary procs and tiers to be fully baked in, and almost nothing new to stand out beyond "customization" but even that doesn't seem likely, at least with how the rows seem configured.

    Ah well. Still better than the current talents system. But i wonder how they will do my class (dh) with already bare bones? Demons bite and chaos strike only? Lol.
    This is supposed to be a redo of the current system so of course many of our current abilities are going to be in the new tree. You wanted a huge new talent tree on top of all the stuff we have currently? You want to track like 10 offensive and 10 defensive cds per class?

    And there are some new things in the talents along with countless other combinations of existing powers we couldn't have before.

  19. #399
    The Lightbringer Skayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    This is supposed to be a redo of the current system so of course many of our current abilities are going to be in the new tree. You wanted a huge new talent tree on top of all the stuff we have currently? You want to track like 10 offensive and 10 defensive cds per class?

    And there are some new things in the talents along with countless other combinations of existing powers we couldn't have before.
    No, I wanted something new. I've legit been playing the same damn spec since legion. Almost the same powers and legendaries since it. And from the looks of, the same spec till end of dragon flight.

    What do think should have happened? Basically the same damn thing, but another row ontop of it like what happened with vanilla into tbc then into wotlk and finally cata. The same end talents have been basically the same since legion. It's not fun to see that my end goal is the same as before.

    Where is the increase or feel of character progression? There isnt. When my warlock went from sacing a demon into having a felguard? That was fun as hell. Oh damn then it gained metamorphosis. See? There is power progression.

    What has my dh been doing since legion? Using and abusing demonic. Not very fun.

  20. #400
    The argument of "the new trees will just be cookie cutter" is not a valid argument.. Since the current trees also have cookie cutter, no matter what talent system you bring out they will all be cookie cutter..

    What these new trees will do is allow me to be a hybrid spec.. So if Arcane spec with points in Fire is the cookie cutter than ill be that if its Arcane/Frost then ill be that. Where as current trees if I am Arcane spec then I am just Arcane spec.. Hybrid specs don't exist currently.

    So yes, cookie cutter will always exist but at least I will be Arcane/Fire or Arcane/Frost instead of just Arcane, so boring

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