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  1. #121
    its always going to have the best version for every part of the game so. its whatever.
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  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Molvonos View Post
    Think of it this way, especially if you M+/Raid.

    Most people in the raid don't use their interrupts. If you're progressing, you end up making a dedicated rotation for interruptions and everyone is on standby. With the new way the talents are presented, you can choose something else other than your interrupt, such as another damage ability or an augment to a skill you already use, making it better. Or you can choose another utility talent or hybridize (picking up a healing spell as a dps, or mitigation as a healer) without bloating your bars with skills you may not necessarily use.

    As a warlock main currently, this is sort of how we function, but with our pets. I can choose which pet is best for the situation -- if I need to help interrupt, I have to pull out my dreadstalker, if I need to help remove magic debuffs, my imp, etc.

    It lets people who want to have a lot of skills pick and choose their own adventure, while other people who may want to refine their bars to the barest minimum for maximum gains, to do so as well.

    Thus creating more options and customization overall.
    Allowing you to trade an interrupt for damage would be an unmitigated disaster. Really doubt they will do this.

    I believe they said it will be utility v utility, damage v damage.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    dunno if they are joking but its clearly a silly opinion to have,the abilities that were in the old talent system were just given automaticaly to the specs after,so its not like there were less abilities from the tree going away,in fact with the modern talents you can end up having to many abilities to press,some specs have many active abilities to chose
    It's not really silly, and Idk why people are saying it's alpha and stuff, Blizz doesn't exactly listen to people who critique such systems, this is how we got Azerite Power and stuff which are different, but still.

    And what made the old ones difficult is that there were points and shit, that's annoying, I just want to pick talent from a big menu and bam talents that you earn as you level from just clicking on them, there are no points shit to increase how effective it is. And the menu/screenshot of the system looks exactly like the old one.

    - - - Updated - - -

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  4. #124
    I honestly feel like Blizzard knows the new system is just the illusion of choice. But they're fine giving it to players because it requires FAR less effort than creating complicated new expansion systems does.

    They legitimately just get to re-use everything they've already made and get to sell it as something "new". And people are lapping it up. It's kind of comical.

  5. #125
    Dreadlord Molvonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    Allowing you to trade an interrupt for damage would be an unmitigated disaster. Really doubt they will do this.

    I believe they said it will be utility v utility, damage v damage.
    Explain how?

    I don't understand how it would be a disaster, if that is the case. Or do you just feel it will be bad?
    Personal Preference and Opinions ≠ Facts, Truth, or Logic

  6. #126

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by LuxTheGamer View Post
    They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
    I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.
    Here’s my take.

    I enjoy the old talent system as it made each new level you gained more fun. You got to work more towards your goal. It was really easy to see what new things you were going to have access to at later levels from the tree.

    It becomes a nightmare if you get too caught up in the tree. The Classic talent tree is actually extremely simple compared to the Wrath talent trees. They decided to try to “kill” cookie cutter builds in Wrath by making the trees so complicated that you’d need a simulation to determine what the best point allocation was.
    In Classic, there were a lot of talents that didn’t actually do anything for your main spec and were basically just filler. If you were a DPS spec, you could just take all of the talents that made you do more damage and then choose whatever optional talents you needed to take to get down to the next set of DPS ones.

    But my advice is simply to look up a guide. There will be many. This system isn’t designed to be something exciting to do at max level, it’s really just to make each level feel more interesting while you’re on the journey.
    It’s going to be daunting jumping in at level 60 with like 51 talent points to pick from right at the very beginning. It’s not as scary if you start from level 10, so just look up some guides to make a good spec and worry about messing with the talents later if you choose to.

  8. #128
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxTheGamer View Post
    They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
    I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.
    First off: the only thing they have similar to the original talents is that they're trees. Everything else is different.
    Second: you, like everyone else, will likely do what you're doing today: you'll pick up cookie-cutter builds, or pick whatever talents your favorite website tells you to pick.

    So nothing will really change, in the end.
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    Oof...

  9. #129
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molvonos View Post
    Explain how?

    I don't understand how it would be a disaster, if that is the case. Or do you just feel it will be bad?
    Because the vast majority of people will never sacrifice throughput for utility, they will always pick damage, which will fuck groups if you encounter a situation where you need utility. Even if they know in advance that a particular utility will be needed for an activity or encounter, most will still pick damage and expect someone else to cover utility. High end players might know better and be more willing to take one for the team, but I can tell you in the average group and in PuGs, it would be a shitshow. I think I've led raids for long enough to think cynicism here is extremely justified.

    However, I really don't think Blizzard will make utility compete with damage for this reason, so I'm not worried about that hypothetical scenario and I think this line of discussion is mostly irrelevant, but since you asked. That's why.
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  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Molvonos View Post
    Explain how?

    I don't understand how it would be a disaster, if that is the case. Or do you just feel it will be bad?
    They said this in one of the interviews, one of the lessons from Legion onward is that you can't have damage compete with utility, damage will always win (consider how nobody using survivability legendaries when damage ones are available). You'll end up seeing players everywhere dropping their interrupt and expecting others to pick up the slack, etc, fostering a nasty social environment.

    Stuff like that should absolutely be a part of a total kit, imo. Honestly the only interrupts that should be in a tree are maybe for healers (who should have to give up something to pick it, because it is a significant bonus in m+ and pvp).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    Because the vast majority of people will never sacrifice throughput for utility, they will always pick damage, which will fuck groups if you encounter a situation where you need utility. Even if they know in advance that a particular utility will be needed for an activity or encounter, most will still pick damage and expect someone else to cover utility. High end players might know better and be more willing to take one for the team, but I can tell you in the average group and in PuGs, it would be a shitshow. I think I've led raids for long enough to think cynicism here is extremely justified.

    However, I really don't think Blizzard will make utility compete with damage for this reason, so I'm not worried about that hypothetical scenario and I think this line of discussion is mostly irrelevant, but since you asked. That's why.
    Haha, didn't see this, But yes.

  11. #131
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxTheGamer View Post
    They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
    I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.
    If you don't feel up to the task, just follow whatever icy-veins suggests. Problem solved on your end. Pretty sure >90% of people who complain about more than a few choices are just doing this anyways (even when icy-veins isn't actually the best build for some specs depending on your gear).

    For those of us who enjoy being able to play around, we get to keep the options. We get something out of it too.

    I've never understood why people get upset with more choices. More choices supports more players. And one thing needed, more than anything else in an MMO, is more players, not less...

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    To be honest, even for the specs that wish for build variety, I doubt it will provide much more than an illusion of choice. One of the reasons why talent trees got pruned was not to make the game simpler but to actually cut down artificial choices and focus more on making choices meaningful. Even then, cookie-cutter mentality prevailed regardless.

    In my opinion, the only upside to the old talent tree system was the feeling of constant development every time you leveled as opposed to the stale progression we have now.
    Yes and no. What convenants, conduits and soulbinds have taught us is if one choice isn't superior to another by a lot and if it still kinda makes sense, then it'll be fine.

    Even for Paladins, if choices like Divine Toll makes somewhat sense, some will still pick it over say Ashen. But as a negative example, for DKs, things like Abomination Limb is way overpowered. So they have to tune back some abilities but at some point in the bell curve, there are players who start to don't care about min-maxing and to us, flavour still trumps.

  13. #133
    The Lightbringer chrisisvacant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molvonos View Post
    Those are static images that do not allow us to mouse over, or play with the talents. Freaking out about a single (or two) image and going all doom n' gloom is a horrible way to go about anything in life, to be fair. Especially when it's the alpha alpha alpha iteration and is open for further development.

    Like, there isn't even enough to properly criticize.
    Sure, I'm just answering the guy's question. Clearly the OP is referencing the screenshots shown. Obviously there is some projection going on, but it's MMO-C. People are routinely dramatic.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxTheGamer View Post
    They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
    I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.
    so because u have to use 0.0001% more of your brain u are not a big fan ya?

  15. #135
    Pandaren Monk czarek's Avatar
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    Imo thats great idea. No more borrowed powers and other crap systems. Just talents comes more flexible. Ofc there will be meta ofc but i bet there will me few cheesy builds for every class.

  16. #136
    The Patient MCitra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pahbi View Post
    The talents is going to be a balance nightmare.

    Why?

    We had talents before that worked just fine. Some is a 1% extra intellect or reduce cd with 0.5 second per point.

    Some of you think its like borrowed power abilites but its not.
    You invest your actual character for ones
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  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by MCitra View Post
    Why?

    We had talents before that worked just fine. Some is a 1% extra intellect or reduce cd with 0.5 second per point.

    Some of you think its like borrowed power abilites but its not.
    You invest your actual character for ones
    By invest you mean follow the meta guides or be shamed / shunned / removed from groups / raids for not being smart enough to use the internet before you played? I like the idea of illusion of choice but its still an illusion at the end of the day and what happened with Covenants will happen again with this take of talents. Also that era of wow was not built upon the right way or your wasting everyones time of the modern day meta gaming bonanza. Look no further then classic to see how meta gaming has changed it.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by LuxTheGamer View Post
    They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
    You quit the game...because the talents seemed too extreme???

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by jeezusisacasual View Post
    By invest you mean follow the meta guides or be shamed / shunned / removed from groups / raids for not being smart enough to use the internet before you played? I like the idea of illusion of choice but its still an illusion at the end of the day and what happened with Covenants will happen again with this take of talents. Also that era of wow was not built upon the right way or your wasting everyones time of the modern day meta gaming bonanza. Look no further then classic to see how meta gaming has changed it.
    I mean it kinda was... this do what you want wow was pretty dead by AQ release and didn't exist in tbc.

  20. #140
    Stood in the Fire Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxTheGamer View Post
    They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
    I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.
    If you don't care to learn, just do what 95% of players are going to do and hit up Icy Veins. Let them think for you.

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