I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of the old talents coming back.

[Video Games]

I disagree, they were also less flexible because of the actual "tree" system where everything had prerequisites to something else, and you often didn't have the points you needed to build in certain directions while still picking up particular mandatory ones. Them not being free or swappable on the fly was also a factor, but the general design of them usually left most people with only a few "you can take X or Y" options for specific talents only and not much genuine choice.


I mean, I do on some of my characters, that's why I mentioned it as something positive that I like about the current system. The trees now are pretty inbalanced in this respect and there are some specs I literally never touch (and some talents on other specs), but then I have other ones where I swap regularly between content type or even fight types within specific content like raids.


At least now there are multiple "cookie cutters" depending on circumstances, though, so it's still something people interface with. And there are also still plenty of non-throughput tiers for many specs where you can entirely choose based on preference. There are also options to choose between passives and active abilities which is nice on alts where one might find the minor dps loss of the passive actually better in practice where you're not playing as optimally because it's an alt. There's more interaction, and I think the choice you do make there is more meaningful.

I absolutely did love, and do miss, the feeling of the old talent system where you had something to look forward to every other level while leveling. It definitely made leveling feel more meaningful and it was exciting to be able to increase your power incrementally on a regular basis. That said, I think that's less important in the hyperfast leveling of today (which as someone who hates leveling after a zillion years and a zillion alts of doing it, I wouldn't want to give up).

My biggest complaint with the current talents really reflects that though; I would like the current style system with the unlinked rows but with more tiers.

But this is all super subjective. I'm not here to convince anyone they should love current talents more than the old system, I'm just stating out I feel about it: I personally like the current system better than the old one (with some caveats), and I'm apprehensive about the things the new system might change when it comes, although I'm happy it is an alternative to another stupid temporary borrowed power system.

I do think everyone should be wary about some baseline abilities for some classes/specs becoming talents and having to give up points to talent into core abilities you already have. I don't want to have to worry about my raiders picking interrupts for example, which is already something they've implied are going to move to trees for some specs. But we'll see how that plays out; it's too early I think to be really panicked or upset about anything like that before we've seen or played with the new talents but I also think some caution is a good idea.

I dont know if youre playing bc, but theres tons of choices. Kebab, deathwish, ramage builds for warriors, dream state boomkins, sanc prot pallys to name a few. Hell of a lot more variety than there is in retail.

[Cyanu]

depending on how they play out this time it could go either ways, i'd say let's wait and see how they're going to do it

[Molvonos]

The story about New Talent system
Players expect a new system full of meaningful choices and ability to create new distinct builds.
What players get is a UI reshape for choice between abilities players already have baseline.
The end.

Sorry for being too negative, but mark my words, it will be this way.

What will happen if we mark your words and you're wrong? Will you delete your account and cease posting?

Because currently, there are 'meaningful' choices. The way that the new talent system is presented, you pick and choose your playstyle, even hybridizing to a degree. How this effects dungeon/raid groups will be interesting. It also allows Blizzard to easily fine-tune balancing issues rather than slapping on '+5% increased damage for <Class> Spec'.

Now, I don't really agree with the rumor(???) going around that you'll have to spec into interrupts as part of your utility, but if that's the case, I can kind of see why they would -- not everyone in a raid needs to interrupt (Heroic Pantheon fight in SoFO, our guild has a set rotation of people who interrupt, everyone else focuses on killing), allowing people to either add a different sort of utility or even more damage.

The doomsaying gets super old sometimes when critical thinking isn't applied at all.

[Glorious Leader]

I think overwhelmingly it will be a popular decision, since a lot of people miss the old talent system. Many players have been asking for them to come back for a long time.
.

Alot of people is like 2 dick heads on a forum man.I don't think most people cared either way.

[GreenJesus]

The thing I'm worried about is they confirmed thst interrupts are going to be on the talent tree. Can't wait for pug groups where people ignore the interrupt ability and instead put points into more damage. When inviting people into groups ill have to check their talent trees to confirm they specced into interrupts now.. what a pain.. hopefully there will be an addon that can do that for us (check mark next to their name in the group finder for example). Why is such a core mechanic required for dungeon, raid, and pvp put onto a talent tree?

If interrupts are on the talent trees, what other core spells or mechanics will be stripped from our core class and made into a choice?

[Supertoster]

What will happen if we mark your words and you're wrong? Will you delete your account and cease posting?

In that case I will admit that I was wrong. And I will do that with a joy, because it will mean that Blizz actually doing something right this time.
All that doomsaying has all rights to exist, because chances for anything good are not very high tbh. Purely based on Blizz's own track record.
I would love this game to be good again. But I have very low expectations.

[deviantcultist]

Why not just play Affl warlock then? The whole point of a Shadow priest is that it's similar to an affl warlock but with Priest flavor.

Lore and flavour reasons. I'm a Void Andy.

[w0nderd0g]

I think things like interrupt cooldown reduction might be a thing in the generic class trees, but a base version will come rolled into the classes still.

I like the new system - as it gives scope to add in some version of the fun legendary or covenant abilities as talents - Ancient Teachings of the Monestary, Condemn, Door of shadows etc.

[LordVargK]

The system basically looks like expanded soulbind trees. Not terribly difficult tbh.

[Lucetia]

They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.

If you feel that intimidated by them, then why not go by a cookie cutter guide? There were ton for Classic and will be tons for Dragonflight. Pick what others suggest and forget about it.

[Bloodyleech]

Can you explain further? I don't understand how you've come that conclusion so quickly given how little we know.

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I don't think you will, since you get one point per level, alternating. So 30 points for the Class tree and 30 points for the Specialization tree.

Just to fix this:
31 class, 30 spec. You get 61 points, starting with level 10.

[Celement]

If you feel that intimidated by them, then why not go by a cookie cutter guide? There were ton for Classic and will be tons for Dragonflight. Pick what others suggest and forget about it.

I think this is how it will mostly go to be honest... I find the community's fascination with talents confusing. Massive blocks of the playerbase use the same talents even among what I would argue are pure utility rows with three choices. They only change when a fight favors more targets or a select few classes heavy movement.

These will mirror tbc and wrath talent trees with something like 50 talents locked in with 3 spare point to toss into whatever mostly dead talents.

Then again maybe the illusion of choice matters more then choice.

[Bloodyleech]

What will happen if we mark your words and you're wrong? Will you delete your account and cease posting?

Because currently, there are 'meaningful' choices. The way that the new talent system is presented, you pick and choose your playstyle, even hybridizing to a degree. How this effects dungeon/raid groups will be interesting. It also allows Blizzard to easily fine-tune balancing issues rather than slapping on '+5% increased damage for <Class> Spec'.

Now, I don't really agree with the rumor(???) going around that you'll have to spec into interrupts as part of your utility, but if that's the case, I can kind of see why they would -- not everyone in a raid needs to interrupt (Heroic Pantheon fight in SoFO, our guild has a set rotation of people who interrupt, everyone else focuses on killing), allowing people to either add a different sort of utility or even more damage.

The doomsaying gets super old sometimes when critical thinking isn't applied at all.

If you look at the given screenshots, you see that the druid interrupt has to be skilled in the class tree.

[Orby]

People saying how the current talent rows are better which would be true if they hadn't been abandoned for 10 years... When was the last time those talent rows felt meaningful. MoP? WoD? Most of the time they were ignored in favour or expansion only systems...

I would have been fine with the talent rows had Blizzard kept adding to it, but they didn't hell at one point they took away a row. In theory the talent rows could have been awesome but they were negleted for so long that I forgot they were there most times.

I am just happy for some progressive meaningful change to talents that grow with your character instead of end at a certain level.

[Palapop]

The old ones, but not the new ones. You click a bunch of points, instead of just simply clicking something, I get the customization but I wish I could do that with the retail talent tree.

So what was the point of your post then?

[Aydinx2]

Too many things to press and think about. The current talent system in Retail is casual friendly and understandable.

Seriously? How can you have the brainpower to turn on your PC if you think trees like that are complicated?

[LuxTheGamer]

So what was the point of your post then?

To make a message I suppose.

[Holdodlig]

People will just copy the best talent but still, I think it might open the door to a healthier class design. Since you'll be able to get multiple talents of the current talent's row, this might just be really interesting in term of class design.

[NineSpine]

To be honest, even for the specs that wish for build variety, I doubt it will provide much more than an illusion of choice. One of the reasons why talent trees got pruned was not to make the game simpler but to actually cut down artificial choices and focus more on making choices meaningful. Even then, cookie-cutter mentality prevailed regardless.

In my opinion, the only upside to the old talent tree system was the feeling of constant development every time you leveled as opposed to the stale progression we have now.

The upside to the old talent trees is expandability. That’s the main thing being gained here.

[wushootaki]

To be honest, even for the specs that wish for build variety, I doubt it will provide much more than an illusion of choice. One of the reasons why talent trees got pruned was not to make the game simpler but to actually cut down artificial choices and focus more on making choices meaningful. Even then, cookie-cutter mentality prevailed regardless.

In my opinion, the only upside to the old talent tree system was the feeling of constant development every time you leveled as opposed to the stale progression we have now.

As someone who played during that time (not sure if you did as well), I just disagree. There won't be a profound amount of choice, but there will be more builds than what currently exists today.

This talent trees are where specs like hemo stunlock, and shockadin came from --- people experimenting with things to figure out unique ways to play. Again, it definitely benefits certain classes more than others, but still looking forward to it. I also understand finding it stale or unengaging --- different strokes for different folks.

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You're not going to be able to do that stuff in this new system though. You only have access to two talent trees, 1 for your current spec, and 1 that is base for your class. There might be some healing points in the base class tree for shaman, but you won't be able to put points in to a resto tree when you're Enhance spec, for example

Yes, which just means its a wait and see to see how much hybridity we can squeeze out of the system. What is a base talent vs. what is a spec specific talent?

If mana reduction exists for totems/abilities/shocks? Might be a base talent.

Nature Swiftness coming back? Probably a resto talent.