I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of the old talents coming back.

[Biomega]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of the new talent system, it's meant to return the feeling of satisisfaction you get when you level up and get to spend talent points. Probably due to the success of classic remastered and Diablo 2.

Call me crazy but maybe they could come up with something that doesn't sacrifice systems used during 99% of your character's lifespan to slightly improve the 1% you spend leveling.

Stuffing the tree full of filler talents just so people "feel good" when they get a level ding sounds like about the most backwards reasoning I could ever imagine.

[Noctiphobia]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of the new talent system, it's meant to return the feeling of satisisfaction you get when you level up and get to spend talent points. Probably due to the success of classic remastered and Diablo 2.

I felt absolutely zero satisfaction when I leveled up and my reward was a choice between +2% damage on Sinister Strike and Eviscerate or +3 weapon skill on swords, fists and daggers.

[Woggmer]

So, after seeing the talents, I do have a few thoughts.

First one is, we can't give better feedback as a community unless we see them all. I say that because it's very apparent to me from looking at these that the Druid is way more rigid in its ability to allow you to mix and match your talents than DK by quite a bit. I easily identified three or four unique builds for DK from just the class talent tree, let alone the spec trees. Whereas Druid is very much "here is your spec and you have to go straight down this tree before anything else." So, it's hard to have a good picture of how well executed the talent trees really are.

One big thing that frustrated me was the arbitrary restrictions on being able to go further in the tree until after you've spent 8 and 20 points into the tree on the whole. It didn't change or stop any builds for me, it just irritated me. That restriction serves no purpose, the big restriction that makes the builds unique is the fact that you have to follow paths.

On the whole though, this is the first time I've actually been interested in DF as an expansion. The trees actually look interesting and fun. And the fact we can save builds and just swap them out is a big deal.

I think a lot of people are upset that they might be regurgitating the same stuff we've had in our baseline but as talents. They'd rather want new things, not the same thing we've seen in the past 3 expansions. Or worse.. having to be pruned of all their abilities but given a choice to pick different things. The only new thing I saw was in druids where they get Mark of the Wild again, but they still get Convoke from SL as a talent.. and DK get the Abomination Limb ability back as well.

It's also worth noting that they never said anything about how classes will play or if we get new spells.. we're just getting an overhauled talent tree. So they just wanted to show us how these talent trees work. I'd very much want to see new stuff, but I can't think of anything new to add and I don't think even Blizz knows how to change up the gameplay of some specs... or if they even need to be changed. I mean I know S-Priests got a rework in how Voidform works which improved it greatly in the SL beta compared to how it was in BfA.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I think a lot of people are upset that they might be regurgitating the same stuff we've had in our baseline but as talents. They'd rather want new things, not the same thing we've seen in the past 3 expansions. Or worse.. having to be pruned of all their abilities but given a choice to pick different things. The only new thing I saw was in druids where they get Mark of the Wild again, but they still get Convoke from SL as a talent.. and DK get the Abomination Limb ability back as well.

It's also worth noting that they never said anything about how classes will play or if we get new spells.. we're just getting an overhauled talent tree. So they just wanted to show us how these talent trees work. I'd very much want to see new stuff, but I can't think of anything new to add and I don't think even Blizz knows how to change up the gameplay of some specs... or if they even need to be changed. I mean I know S-Priests got a rework in how Voidform works which improved it greatly in the SL beta compared to how it was in BfA.

Druids are getting quite a bit of SL stuff. 3 or 4 legendaries are in each spec tree, and Adaptive Swarm made it in as well as Convoke. Berserk also appears to have received a few optional buffs for Feral. I also saw some Anima power based stuff around form switching which hasn't been playable in regular content before.

[Selah]

I think a lot of people are upset that they might be regurgitating the same stuff we've had in our baseline but as talents. They'd rather want new things, not the same thing we've seen in the past 3 expansions. Or worse.. having to be pruned of all their abilities but given a choice to pick different things. The only new thing I saw was in druids where they get Mark of the Wild again, but they still get Convoke from SL as a talent.. and DK get the Abomination Limb ability back as well.

And I get that, but this is a bit of an apples to oranges scenario because we're getting 31 class points and 30 spec points. That's eight and half times more talent points. Not to mention these talents points fundamentally operate differently than what we've had since MoP. These are meant to be able to tune how the classes work under the hood instead augment how classes function baseline.

All that to say is this a replacement not an addition. But, while it's a replacement I do see it expanding what classes can currently do based on just these trees alone.

It's also worth noting that they never said anything about how classes will play or if we get new spells.. we're just getting an overhauled talent tree. So they just wanted to show us how these talent trees work. I'd very much want to see new stuff, but I can't think of anything new to add and I don't think even Blizz knows how to change up the gameplay of some specs... or if they even need to be changed. I mean I know S-Priests got a rework in how Voidform works which improved it greatly in the SL beta compared to how it was in BfA.

I can understand wanting something new. I would argue that these trees by themselves are going to open up a lot of new options for players, and does so by utilizing the existing toolkits for the classes. A really good example of that is the fact that you can comfortably get two of those capstone abilities in those class trees without issue. To me, that more than enough satisfies the desire for new things to play with. And, the beauty is, when 11.0 is released and the increase the level cap, even if they didn't add anything to the talents, the additional few talent points is going to get the players more abilities and unique builds to try out.

[Celement]

And I get that, but this is a bit of an apples to oranges scenario because we're getting 31 class points and 30 spec points. That's eight and half times more talent points. Not to mention these talents points fundamentally operate differently than what we've had since MoP. These are meant to be able to tune how the classes work under the hood instead augment how classes function baseline.

All that to say is this a replacement not an addition. But, while it's a replacement I do see it expanding what classes can currently do based on just these trees alone.



I can understand wanting something new. I would argue that these trees by themselves are going to open up a lot of new options for players, and does so by utilizing the existing toolkits for the classes. A really good example of that is the fact that you can comfortably get two of those capstone abilities in those class trees without issue. To me, that more than enough satisfies the desire for new things to play with. And, the beauty is, when 11.0 is released and the increase the level cap, even if they didn't add anything to the talents, the additional few talent points is going to get the players more abilities and unique builds to try out.

It won't open up any options beyond the same options the old talent trees did. Spec properly or get kicked.

I will bet you a million wow gold that In the first two weeks there will be a weak aura or nod that does this and players filter out snowflakes from groups.

[BeepBoo]

I saw those trees and immediately thought, "Oh no, button bloat incoming?". Granted, I was one of the weirdos who LIKED the "great prune" in Legion.

With the exception of how slow the GCD is, FF14 gameplay, mechanically, is far superior to wow because of how many buttons go into a typical rotation IMO. If they can somehow get button bloat in there AND get more buttons into the rotation AND up the APM back to pre-BFA days (~120 APM for a lot of classes) AND not fuck the story up any more than they already have, they could have a winner game with the other changes they've made. But that's not happening.

- - - Updated - - -

I will bet you a million wow gold that In the first two weeks there will be a weak aura or nod that does this and players filter out snowflakes from groups.

There have been numerous times in wow history RECENTLY where either different talent choices or different builds all performed within such a small margin of error that it comes down to player preference and ability to execute on the strategy, so it's not like there's absolutely always one cookie cutter.

[Selah]

It won't open up any options beyond the same options the old talent trees did.

That's untrue just based on the functionality of the trees alone. But what I think you're trying to say is that this won't open up additional options at high end content, which is something we're really not going to know until we see what the endgame of DF looks like with these trees. Of course that then opens up the conversation about cookie cutter builds, which will always exist regardless of how flawless a character option system may be - but that doesn't mean the system is a poor idea.

Spec properly or get kicked.

This is only something that applies to PUG content, and only sometimes at that. If your DPS/survivability/healing is where it should be then people on the whole won't particularly care about your talent choices as long as it doesn't hamstring the group you're playing with. If you're playing with a guild or group of people you have a good repertoire with and you're competent this reasoning won't be applied.

I will bet you a million wow gold that In the first two weeks there will be a weak aura or nod that does this and players filter out snowflakes from groups.

I wouldn't be surprised, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.

[Kithelle]

I was hoping maybe they'd mix it up a bit but no, these basically watered down classic talents. Basically spending points to get what we got passively in the past.

[Glorious Leader]

Druids are getting quite a bit of SL stuff. 3 or 4 legendaries are in each spec tree, and Adaptive Swarm made it in as well as Convoke. Berserk also appears to have received a few optional buffs for Feral. I also saw some Anima power based stuff around form switching which hasn't been playable in regular content before.

In otherwords... nothing new. Its entirely possible they'll give us new spells but not having any talents interact with them is shitty as well. Nothing about this is exciting. Now I have to actually choose to take tranquility. Are you fucking kidding me?

[Dorothyjean]

They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.

The problem I've got with it is more that it's just an illusion on some level... it'll have way more options but if the game is still the same as before than it's just more options for the same end result. PvP it'll be wonderful because of the options and variations but for PvE... if the bosses and mechanics are all still rooted in a foundation of math (x dps = x boss health = defeat) it'll just be a ton of options but "these options are optimal" for this boss etc. etc. etc. ad naseum.

So once everything is mathed out for PvE it'll just become this annoying task of swapping talents from encounter to encounter and the min/max people will need a Weakaura or spreadsheet to remember their layouts from boss to boss.

I can't imagine much changing in the future in regards to PvE but I imagine at first it'll be a fresh breath of air but once most people are working on progression in a raid or M+ it'll become tedious, annoying and boring.

[Supertoster]

Revealed system is stupid. Blizz just did their beloved trick: they took old stuff, reshaped it into a "new" form in a way, that will left players with even less choices and content than before.
New system forces players to choose between having only left leg or only right leg, while players had both of their legs for years. They are still your old legs, but now there is an "engaging and interesting decision" between them.
I will never understand people who call this "new" system good or interesting. This is some kind of delusional fanboyism.

[Elbob]

Revealed system is stupid. Blizz just did their beloved trick: they took old stuff, reshaped it into a "new" form in a way, that will left players with even less choices and content than before.
New system forces players to choose between having only left leg or only right leg, while players had both of their legs for years. They are still your old legs, but now there is an "engaging and interesting decision" between them.
I will never understand people who call this "new" system good or interesting. This is some kind of delusional fanboyism.

This is supposed to be a redesign of our current system to be more engaging. If you don't think it is you will have to present an argument as to why. And atleast in the specs I play these new trees are allowing me to get combinations of talents/powers I couldn't before. There are also new nodes that didn't exist in any form before... so we are getting new things.

Obviously most of the tree is going to be existing talents/powers/spells. If it was a whole new tree on top of our current list of effects we would be back to having like a billion spells/cooldowns/defensives. Are there problems with the new trees, yes of course. Are there going to be cookie cutter specs... of course but there is more choice and more combinations of things we couldn't have before.

[Kiria]

I seriously weary of this new talent system after seeing it, it feels like they are stripping baseline abilities of what we currently have and giving you it back as a talent "choice" it would not surprise me if the added stats are not being treated the same like removing 6% damage of said ability from the base only to give you it back through a talent giving you the illusion of choice.

[Aleksej89]

i really dislike the new system, it seems to do everything wrong.

they disassembled the already over-pruned SLands classes and put the abilities onto talent trees, then gave us nowhere near enough points to actually make an interesting class.

As it stands right now there should be either a lot more "general talent" points or there should be a lot less filler on the general talent trees.
By the time we spend the general talent points to stitch the class back together into a competitive form we got no leftover points for anything fun.

[Swnem]

Now that i had a play with the calculator i have to admit they are underwhelming.
I don't really think there are good decisions to make here. It will all come down to simming what gives the most DPS. But, as they will force overall balance, if you are losing utilities to get the most DPS that will be equivalent to everyone else, that is not an interesting choice because you just got weaker.
Also, pretty bad choices like being forced to get an ability you don't want to reach another.

I think that at the end of the day, these trees are useless and a waste of resources. We are not actually gaining anything from these. I think this is an unnecessary change and the current talent system is simply better.

Anyways, as i know they never turn the boat around once they decide something... Utilities and basic abilities should just be baseline. In spec trees having to use a talent to get basic utilities is just dumb. There is no decision there.

[jeezusisacasual]

What would have been better is just give a talent of cosmetic options that would give some uniqueness this is not that.

[vian]

The talent tree shouldn't have been swapped out to begin with.

Changing to "6 picks to make your build" is the most dumbing down they've ever done.

[Al Gorefiend]

It is all the same stuff we already had just reshuffled around and presented to us in a way that makes us think we can design our characters in a more RPG sense.

RPG designing your character is not "Do I want X% more damage here or here?" that is essentially mathematical progression of your character, RPG designing your character means... "Do I want to use ice spells more than fire spells?" "Can I fight with a spear instead of a sword?"

End of the day, all this talent system is doing is letting players crunch in numbers and press buttons that were originally an automated task within the current talent system.

but I do think it will be refreshing if they let us create trybrid characters again picking abilities from all 3 specs of our class (doubtful!)

[TheWorkingTitle]

If they take away my baseline abilities I've had for years or even a decade+ and then make me choose between having just one or the other, I may just stop altogether. We need to get back to MoP-era amounts of abilities and gameplay depth. This is seemingly going the exact opposite way.