How do you feel about Atonement?

[Aydinx2]

No idea What changed from Legion and forwards, but since then I havent liked it at all.

The DPS is low, its High effort and I Wish there was more ways to spread atonement.

A cool idea, and I can see why people like it, but I just Cant seem to get a hang of it in pressured situations or if Im the last healer standing in a raid lol
I always go OOM in thoose situations

They linked DPS and Healing, which means that if you want to do 100% the same output as other healers, you'd need a mix of DPS and healing to be balanced. But if you're not doing 100% as much healing as other specs, you're worthless. And if they buff the healing then you do over 100% output, making you OP. Same with DPS.

So they made the DPS the weakest out of all the Healers to justify having good Healing output. But then you have the problem that most of your rotation (all the DPS spells you cast after applying atonement) feels like you're slapping a wall with a wet noodle. And you get outperformed by a Holy priest that just bursts everyone full and then does a DPS rotation. This is why the top healers are the ones that DON'T transfer DPS into healing directly, but instead stop healing entirely just to DPS.

It wasn't always a problem, but M+ made it worse.

[Utrrabbit]

I personally hate the current mechanic.

Discipline was turned into a damage-healer through atonement, but it now deals around the lowest dps of all the healers. And guess what, it isn't even that good at any of its jobs. Its most popular use is to shield everyone every 1 minute in raids, but Holy is still preferred in M+ because of damage output. And having to pre-apply atonement and then start healing with DPS is something I personally hate. I'd rather not have atonement at all than having to pre-apply short buffs. Being weak for most of the fight and then having to ramp for a single mechanic just feels terrible to me.

If Disc was really that OP that it needed nerfing/changing the Atonement mechanic like this, can we at least admit that it still is in that same position due to the raid pre-shielding (top guilds consider it mandatory)? All this change has done is make it feel terrible in almost every situation.

Is there anyone who really enjoys the current Atonement? If so, what content do you play it in?

I'm not saying they should just remove the pre-applying and make it raid-wide passive with nothing else nerfed btw.

I mean our disc priest regularly does 4-5k dps on bosses so. It is not that bad.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

They linked DPS and Healing, which means that if you want to do 100% the same output as other healers, you'd need a mix of DPS and healing to be balanced. But if you're not doing 100% as much healing as other specs, you're worthless. And if they buff the healing then you do over 100% output, making you OP. Same with DPS.

So they made the DPS the weakest out of all the Healers to justify having good Healing output. But then you have the problem that most of your rotation (all the DPS spells you cast after applying atonement) feels like you're slapping a wall with a wet noodle. And you get outperformed by a Holy priest that just bursts everyone full and then does a DPS rotation. This is why the top healers are the ones that DON'T transfer DPS into healing directly, but instead stop healing entirely just to DPS.

It wasn't always a problem, but M+ made it worse.

That is kind of a selective memory. Holy paladins have historically dominated mythic plus, especially season 1 in Shadowlands, precisely because they could DpS and heal at the same time with Ashen hallow etc. Then in traditional fashion they got nerfed, but in the next season when they fall behind they don't get rebuffed so now they suck lol

Season 3 is the first time in mplus history when holy priest wasn't garbage, and that's because the abilities got a damage multiplier and double legendaries and stuff lol

But yes, disc is languishing because it's almost impossible to balance the concept. Damage absorbs were always going to be better than actual healing, and a healer who can do a lot of damage while also healing will be better than the other specs. So now it's left in the area where it just kind of sucks at everything

[Coldfrostzero]

I personally hate the current mechanic.

Discipline was turned into a damage-healer through atonement, but it now deals around the lowest dps of all the healers. And guess what, it isn't even that good at any of its jobs. Its most popular use is to shield everyone every 1 minute in raids, but Holy is still preferred in M+ because of damage output. And having to pre-apply atonement and then start healing with DPS is something I personally hate. I'd rather not have atonement at all than having to pre-apply short buffs. Being weak for most of the fight and then having to ramp for a single mechanic just feels terrible to me.

If Disc was really that OP that it needed nerfing/changing the Atonement mechanic like this, can we at least admit that it still is in that same position due to the raid pre-shielding (top guilds consider it mandatory)? All this change has done is make it feel terrible in almost every situation.

Is there anyone who really enjoys the current Atonement? If so, what content do you play it in?

I'm not saying they should just remove the pre-applying and make it raid-wide passive with nothing else nerfed btw.

The Cata/MoP version of Disc was the best they ever had. It was sadly a little too OP as you were the top DPS and healer. The only thing Disc was bad at was huge damage spikes on multiple targets, which was fine. The argument became, "well we want to heal not be a DPS who passively heals." I absolutely hate Atonement since the changes in Legion. Having to put a tiny heal on people while actively trying to DPS so that heal could matter is clunky and feels extremely unrewarding if suddenly that person gets topped off while you are trying to apply a few Atonements across multiple people to maximize the healing. It just becomes overhealing.

I think a better solution would have been to do give the Disc priest the stances that Holy had about the same time. You could swap between an AOE healer or a single target healer depending on the situation. Disc could have had the DPS healer stance (like a quasi-shadow form) and a normal healer stance. The DPS healer has smart heals where Smite/whatever rotation moves are these days deal significant healing to 1 or 2 targets while something like Penance becomes a big DPS spell that deals with spiky aoe, but nothing but single target Penance can be used to heal. If you want to go healer stance, you lose the DPS converts to healing, but you can resume casting on people. Shields, Penance, Heal, or whatever are all active again so you can focus heal people.

You can have a few of the spells maybe still blend where SWP through talents will always do a tiny it of smart healing to someone in Healer Stance, but something like Renew or PW:S takes its place otherwise.

Granted I don't really play retail anymore, but I was very dismayed at how Disc has become especially since Legion. I played Disc back in Classic over Holy Priests. I never made it to like AQ40 or Naxx back then, but in MC/BWL I was always topping the charts and never running OOM. Seeing Disc being this weird like semi-healer that takes 4-5 globals to set up isn't attractive.

[VinceVega]

I like the basic concept but at the same time it is the reason healer have been pushed more into the do damage every second you can kind of gameplay which i dislike immensly...

ALso they always do way to much damage compared to other healers without actually healing less. There is no real downside. As d resto druid you will be hard pressed to do the same amount of damage without using your major cooldowns as dmg CDs.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

ALso they always do way to much damage compared to other healers without actually healing less. There is no real downside. As d resto druid you will be hard pressed to do the same amount of damage without using your major cooldowns as dmg CDs.

This hasn't been true for years now, mate!

[VinceVega]

This hasn't been true for years now, mate!

not really

[oplawlz]

Go back to the cool shield theme and tell the other healers to stop whining about meters. This change was lowkey worse than the hunter survival one.

[Al Gorefiend]

Holy doing more DPS than Disc cannot be intended, it doesn't make sense.

[ZazuuPriest]

it should be like it was in when it was a smart heal that i dont have to apply for a short time and then try to slam as many casts within it. I understand why its not that though. Honestly i think the most fun disc ever was was in WoDs first tier.

Currently without spirit shell play, its super high effort (compared to all of the other healers) with F tier throughput. Shits ass but im almost certain they just dont want people playing it right now

[Heathy]

I've pugged normal vault now (cleared it on normal mostly as holy, I did eranog in heroic aswell) and I think disc was alright for some of them (in normal eranog is pretty easy so you can get away with disc there) but I think the application of atonement really slows down the ability to be reactive, I got to 381 (383 now) without running any keystones and I just dread trying a keystone as disc. even though I really enjoy the spec and the versatility its so much weaker on throughput than holy its not even funny (I even spent my sparks on the azureweave set for disc I have two pieces of azureweave). the burst potential is great but its short lived. the spec probably does need a way to apply atonement to the raid or they do need to extend the duration of atonement. so that you're able to get more out of each application. often times its just running out on one person as you apply it to the next person. it could be more intuitive and not something you're constantly fighting against (disc is basically whack-a-mole x2). in 5 mans its not that bad but in raids when there are more than 10 ppl it starts to become a problem that other specs don't have. the game is for sure becoming more and more reactive based you have to react quickly to things happening and atonement is a hamstring on an otherwise enjoyable spec to play. i'd probably be happy if they just made it so that prayer of mending applied atonement, or shadow covenant perhaps having more ways to apply it instantly or randomly would help. maybe an ability that applied it to ppl who hit a target, anything like that would make the spec better, allow you to do more dps or direct healing without pissing around spending most of your time just layering atonements.

[kenn9530]

The Cata/MoP version of Disc was the best they ever had. It was sadly a little too OP as you were the top DPS and healer. The only thing Disc was bad at was huge damage spikes on multiple targets, which was fine. The argument became, "well we want to heal not be a DPS who passively heals." I absolutely hate Atonement since the changes in Legion. Having to put a tiny heal on people while actively trying to DPS so that heal could matter is clunky and feels extremely unrewarding if suddenly that person gets topped off while you are trying to apply a few Atonements across multiple people to maximize the healing. It just becomes overhealing.

In MoP disc was not able to be top dps while healing unless you are joining groups that are severely undergeared or just bad, its was the best spec in MoP since the shields were OP and you didnt need spirit, it was quite fun to play disc back in MoP, but dont claim it could get top dps when a competant group you would still be under the dps on damage.

In MoP your focus was not on actually doing damage the main goal was critting as much as possible to cap those shields.

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Holy doing more DPS than Disc cannot be intended, it doesn't make sense.

If a holy does nothing but damage and ignore healing then it should do more damage than disc, but a disc can do both at the same time so it will always be the top dps of the healers.

[schwank05]

I have loved Atonement since its inception, but felt it was perfect in MOP. Just damage and smart heal everyone. Applying Atonement sucks, honestly it should be a 1-3 min buff if we are applying it.

[Al Gorefiend]

In MoP disc was not able to be top dps while healing unless you are joining groups that are severely undergeared or just bad, its was the best spec in MoP since the shields were OP and you didnt need spirit, it was quite fun to play disc back in MoP, but dont claim it could get top dps when a competant group you would still be under the dps on damage.

In MoP your focus was not on actually doing damage the main goal was critting as much as possible to cap those shields.

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If a holy does nothing but damage and ignore healing then it should do more damage than disc, but a disc can do both at the same time so it will always be the top dps of the healers.

disagree. If any spec in the game had to have the absolute lowest DPS potential possible it should be Holy priest. They are the archetypical healer, being capable of outDPSing a spec that damages to heal should not be intended.

Holy should always outperform Disc in heal output. It should be disc that can choose to sacrifice healing for high DPS, that is the intent of the spec. In fact the perfect disc priest design should be able to scale 0-100 damage:healing depending on what talents you pick, a Disc that puts nothing but DPS talent options into the tree should be sub-capable of doing more than half the damage of an S priest minus the utility of a DPS spec. That is to me the design intent of my favorite spec, you never fully commit to being full damage or full healing, you pick talent options that swing you toward either side. So a Holy priest being able to out DPS a Disc priest feels wrong to me.