Why does wow's community come off as so entitled?

[Zyky]

I prefer MoP over any expansions past this point. WoD presents the new era of them pleasing these groups of flakey people.

Blizzard doesn't reward "flakey people". If anything it's the opposite. There's far more grinds required to do anything than there ever was in the past, been this way since Legion. WoD was when they started to try milking the playerbase for $$$ by it being the first expansion that had a price increase and the first expansion that was "supposed" to be a year long for them to milk more money for new expansions faster. Players didn't like that and quit, players don't like the current design philosophy of the game, and I can't say that I blame them, I used to play this game 30+ hours a week back in Wrath, Cata, MoP, but now I can't be bothered because I have to do content I don't like to get into content I like and that was never the case. If I wanted to raid on 3 toons in MoP I didn't have all these arduous grinds to keep my character relevant, I picked up the Legendary Cloak chain and worked on it, now it's like you have to grind M+ to even get into a raiding guild because Blizzard has been dramatically overtuning the content since BFA for literally the top .0001% of guilds which comes out to roughly 150-200 players total. Then you have conduits, soulbinds, legendaries. Last expansion was Corruption, Cloak Levels, Essences, AP, ect. It just doesn't end... Flakey people are not the problem with the game, the problem with the game is that Blizzard thinks they have to tell you how to play instead of just letting you play the game the way you want to like you could back in the day.

[HansOlo]

Blizzard doesn't reward "flakey people". If anything it's the opposite. There's far more grinds required to do anything than there ever was in the past, been this way since Legion. WoD was when they started to try milking the playerbase for $$$ by it being the first expansion that had a price increase and the first expansion that was "supposed" to be a year long for them to milk more money for new expansions faster. Players didn't like that and quit, players don't like the current design philosophy of the game, and I can't say that I blame them, I used to play this game 30+ hours a week back in Wrath, Cata, MoP, but now I can't be bothered because I have to do content I don't like to get into content I like and that was never the case. If I wanted to raid on 3 toons in MoP I didn't have all these arduous grinds to keep my character relevant, I picked up the Legendary Cloak chain and worked on it, now it's like you have to grind M+ to even get into a raiding guild because Blizzard has been dramatically overtuning the content since BFA for literally the top .0001% of guilds which comes out to roughly 150-200 players total. Then you have conduits, soulbinds, legendaries. Last expansion was Corruption, Cloak Levels, Essences, AP, ect. It just doesn't end... Flakey people are not the problem with the game, the problem with the game is that Blizzard thinks they have to tell you how to play instead of just letting you play the game the way you want to like you could back in the day.

Yes - and that is why MoP was so good?

Do you know how confusing this community is with thier needs?

[Aggressive]

Yes - and that is why MoP was so good?

Do you know how confusing this community is with thier needs?

I suggest you stay off these forums. The community of MMO-Champion, as well as the forum community of FFXIV are flakey as hell. Just reading some of the shit in forums will leave you baffled as hell.

[HansOlo]

I suggest you stay off these forums. The community of MMO-Champion, as well as the forum community of FFXIV are flakey as hell. Just reading some of the shit in forums will leave you baffled as hell.

Been there many times. Thanks for the headsup.

[Flatspriest]

I think part of why the WoW community, as well as the communities in just about every other game as well, comes off as entitled, is that they think they are right even when they are not. For instance, someone stating that something is a bug when it was something designed to do exactly what it is doing. You tell the person they need to submit their feedback in an appropriate place and they tell you it is a bug anyways, regardless of the facts.

[m4Zzo928]

Elden Ring and Fromsoft is such a good example of this. They don’t cater to fans that complain about the difficulty. They simply just say “sorry”, and move on, and they are basically worshipped for this, and rightfully so. Blizz had their eye on money more than product quality, and it’s shown for a while now. The worlds in WoW should be built as things to conquer, not completely dubbed down to cater to efficiency nuts.

[Biomega]

Elden Ring and Fromsoft is such a good example of this. They don’t cater to fans that complain about the difficulty. They simply just say “sorry”, and move on, and they are basically worshipped for this, and rightfully so.

While you're not wrong about ER, it's not a good comparison to position a b2p single-player game vs. a subscription MMO.

There are MASSIVELY different mechanics at play here. A single-player game can afford to just go "maybe it's not for you" and still turn a profit; while an MMO has to work extremely hard to offset costs all. the. time. - not just running costs like servers and support (both of which are massively more involved than in most SP games) but also ongoing development for content that is largely paid for by the subscription. All of which has to work in concert with existing content, balancing existing players with new players etc. etc.

The task is simply very different, and there's a reason why games like MMOs tend to have much broader appeal than SP titles who can be quite niche. It's why New World added so much PvE (for all the good it did them) or why WoW is continuing to straddle the raider/casuals divide, not to mention the different forms of content between raids, m+, pvp, and so on. They HAVE TO or they go out of business.

Now, you can argue degrees of course. No one is saying MMOs need to appeal to EVERYONE. But certainly they have a much more diverse audience than titles like ER or other Souls-like games, and that's not something they can just turn on a dime on if they expect to make any money.

[m4Zzo928]

While you're not wrong about ER, it's not a good comparison to position a b2p single-player game vs. a subscription MMO.

There are MASSIVELY different mechanics at play here. A single-player game can afford to just go "maybe it's not for you" and still turn a profit; while an MMO has to work extremely hard to offset costs all. the. time. - not just running costs like servers and support (both of which are massively more involved than in most SP games) but also ongoing development for content that is largely paid for by the subscription. All of which has to work in concert with existing content, balancing existing players with new players etc. etc.

The task is simply very different, and there's a reason why games like MMOs tend to have much broader appeal than SP titles who can be quite niche. It's why New World added so much PvE (for all the good it did them) or why WoW is continuing to straddle the raider/casuals divide, not to mention the different forms of content between raids, m+, pvp, and so on. They HAVE TO or they go out of business.

Now, you can argue degrees of course. No one is saying MMOs need to appeal to EVERYONE. But certainly they have a much more diverse audience than titles like ER or other Souls-like games, and that's not something they can just turn on a dime on if they expect to make any money.

Ah, but that is precisely my point. They played it too safe for too long. Of course running an mmo is different, my point was that vanilla, even BC, and to an extent Wrath presented a world in a similar way, not so much in a throw it at the wall, and if it sticks, it sticks method, but more a world was presented to be overcome, and the onus was on the player to figure things out. Every release after inched further and further away from this, especially once we reached post Cata with the Activation/Blizz merge. Today with addons, websites with full database integration like wowhead, and predictable worlds, systems, and gameplay. The systems in general has gotten out of control, it's like they decided more systems somehow equals more engaging gameplay.

I think there may be a chance they've figured some of this out, because DF looks unique, and looks to be going back to the basics, and letting the world and gameplay be what drives the game. Rather then having to artificially pad the gameplay by adding more systems. I can only hope, because a world as big as an ocean but as shallow as a pool will be a failure. They need more content in the world, more often.

Maybe the counter argument is they had to listen to players and dub down the game, but imo, perhaps the rise of the games popularity would be stunted a bit, but I think it achieves the same popularity for a longer period than what has happened in it's current product cycle.

[Osmeric]

but more a world was presented to be overcome, and the onus was on the player to figure things out.

Ah, the grand quest to enter wowhead.com into your browser. Epic!

[m4Zzo928]

Ah, the grand quest to enter wowhead.com into your browser. Epic!

Yea basically. The game plays itself with addons and websites like wowhead. Before a new expansion or big content patch, people already know exactly what to do. How exactly is that good? This also contributes to less sociable communities. Nobody needs to ask around or help each other out, wowhead does that! And I know I’m saying not the best thing about wowhead, which I’ve admittedly used a lot, but nonetheless I see the consequences of relying on websites and addons to the gameplay experience. They should be saying the same thing about websites, as they are now with addons. At the very least allow the websites to be filled with data during the expansion and not at alpha and beta.