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  1. #221
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Oh but tinkers are a very popular concept that every expansion has forum posts about and people asking for them.
    Surely a race built around that aesthetic would be popular!
    No, because a race is not the same as a class. Racials aside, a Mechagnome is pretty much stuck with the same class options as anyone else. So no matter what class you choose, there’s better/more fitting racial options than the mechagnome.

    For example, are you going to choose a Mechagnome monk over a Pandaren, Elf, or Human monk? Not likely. Are you going to pick a Mechagnome Warrior over an Orc, Tauren, Human, or Dwarf Warrior? Again, not likely. Are you going to pick a Mechagnome mage over a Human or Elf mage? Again, not likely. That is the core issue with the race, and Dracthyr won’t have that problem, since they’re the only ones who can be Evokers and vice versa.

    Kind of like Demon Hunters. The class was specifically designed for elves.
    Demon hunters can only be an elf, and the class is based around a very popular and much more iconic character to WoW than dragons.

    Yet they’re still not one of the most popular classes. Interesting.
    Again, you had melee DPS that really didn’t bring anything new to the table. Both that and tanking spec was pretty saturated when it entered the game, especially after Monks, DKs, and Survival going melee. Also, once the cool factor subsides, the gameplay is on the shallow side. That’s the core problem of the DH (along with nerfs), and it explains their sinking popularity.

    Once again, DEs don’t have that problem, because it is bringing something new to the table, and the userbase wants a new RDPS and healer.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2022-06-10 at 01:36 PM.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Dracthyr have more effort spend on their model to the point where they can now no longer wear armour is not an argument in their favour, it just makes Blizzard look more stupid for investing time in actively removing an important feature to a significant part of the player base (the ability to play with our barbie transmog).

    If you were to hold a survey on the entire WoW player base asking if they want to wear armour on their humanoid dragon or have actual 3d scales and ridges on their leg that they might be able to see if they zoom in close enough but not be able to wear armour I am very confident in what the result would be.
    This is a pretty disingenuous, at best, argument to make . No one is removing anything, there is a new race that prioritizes racial customization over transmog. There's another 12 classes and 23 races to pick from if you feel that transmogging the pants or chest slot outweighs that customization or the allure of a new class.

    I think if you held that survey you'd be surprised how even the results would turn out. Consider for a moment that one of the most widely requested features for the transmog system was the ability to hide armor pieces. Also consider that out of combat, where transmog is most being paid attention to, you can wear complete transmog. Which again, doubles down on how nothing is being removed, because now your dress up barbie still has all the dress up parts, but in combat turns into a dragon that has a ton of swappable dragon parts.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    a ton of swappable dragon parts.
    Yeah, I think you're getting ahead of yourself.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Yeah, I think you're getting ahead of yourself.
    I'm not? They are readily observable in just the various images, videos and gifs we've seen. The race has a shit ton of customization, even completely ignoring the visage side.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I'm not? They are readily observable in just the various images, videos and gifs we've seen. The race has a shit ton of customization, even completely ignoring the visage side.
    Okay now I'm curious. What have you seen ?

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Okay now I'm curious. What have you seen ?
    Your typical "skin color" options, at least 10 of them in a good variety of hues.



    Added to this, patterning/scale options separate from those base colorations, allowing for variety within the hues themselves. Not sure if linked, but there's scale pattern variation in the faces (e.g. dark scales down the snout or not) as well.



    Unclear at the moment, but potentially some sort of "secondary" skin color that controls the 'underbelly' section and wing color. Either that or there are way more than 10 skin hues and there's multiple versions of some/all the hues with different secondary colors.



    Horns, of course. Coming in not only a variety of shapes as expected,

    but also in a variety of colors, which are not linked to your skin color and with accessories (rings, extra spikes, etc.)


    Multiple head shapes, not just texture modifications or slight rounder/narrower, but totally significantly different shapes.

    (you'll also notice in the above pictures that you can customize the facial spikes and ears, add rhino horns, etc.)



    Multiple configurations of spikes and plates for legs, arms and shoulders/collarbone (seemingly separate options), as noted previously, these are not textures but 3D modeled elements.


    Neck and tail fins/spikes.


    Seperate from that, types of tail-end.


    And then of course, subtle though it may be (probably likely to be less subtle in the alpha version) multiple body types.

    Definitely on a completely different level of customization that most races, whose options are largely just facial and hair, and then some texture and color options and maybe a few jewelry things with the more recent expansion of customization options.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    This is a pretty disingenuous, at best, argument to make . No one is removing anything, there is a new race that prioritizes racial customization over transmog. There's another 12 classes and 23 races to pick from if you feel that transmogging the pants or chest slot outweighs that customization or the allure of a new class.

    I think if you held that survey you'd be surprised how even the results would turn out. Consider for a moment that one of the most widely requested features for the transmog system was the ability to hide armor pieces. Also consider that out of combat, where transmog is most being paid attention to, you can wear complete transmog. Which again, doubles down on how nothing is being removed, because now your dress up barbie still has all the dress up parts, but in combat turns into a dragon that has a ton of swappable dragon parts.
    Extra customization and wearing armor are not mutually exclusive concepts though. That would be like saying that Lightforged Draenei shouldn't be able to wear chestpieces because they have tattoos as customization and that is enough.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Definitely on a completely different level of customization that most races, whose options are largely just facial and hair, and then some texture and color options and maybe a few jewelry things with the more recent expansion of customization options.
    That's interesting indeed. Especially the part where some customs are not just about textures, but also 3D models. I also wonder if it's gonna be a lot of separate options are a bunch of packages of options. I can see how the collarbone/shoulders/arms/legs options could be gathered into a few scale patterns options.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    Extra customization and wearing armor are not mutually exclusive concepts though. That would be like saying that Lightforged Draenei shouldn't be able to wear chestpieces because they have tattoos as customization and that is enough.
    Again.

    Tattoos = texture modification.
    Dracthyr = model modification.

    LF tattoos do absolutely nothing to impede a chest piece texture being applied to a model. If you slap a chest piece texture onto arms that have a bunch of spikes poking out, you end up with something that looks like complete shit. There is a reason why the pandaren heel and toe sections have permanent gold ornamental outlines.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Skayth View Post
    That's fine and all, I still want armor on the actual dragon. A shaman looking dragon looks fun to play
    Me too mate. Soythyr should get better body option and armor to wear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Again.

    Tattoos = texture modification.
    Dracthyr = model modification.

    LF tattoos do absolutely nothing to impede a chest piece texture being applied to a model. If you slap a chest piece texture onto arms that have a bunch of spikes poking out, you end up with something that looks like complete shit. There is a reason why the pandaren heel and toe sections have permanent gold ornamental outlines.
    Swap Soythyr's 3d surface to flat textures while armor is being worn.

  11. #231
    They remind me of those action figures at Dollar Stores that cant move their arms or legs correctly. Just open the class up to other races.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by jeezusisacasual View Post
    They remind me of those action figures at Dollar Stores that cant move their arms or legs correctly. Just open the class up to other races.
    They're still models, of course they look like that. Remember every other time Blizzard anounced model updates and they displayed them in a ramrod straight pose and they looked just as bad.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  13. #233
    The Patient Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    They're still models, of course they look like that. Remember every other time Blizzard anounced model updates and they displayed them in a ramrod straight pose and they looked just as bad.
    This isn't a T-pose. That's the neutral standing pose. And it looks horrid head-on.

    But so do all lizard races, and lizards for that matter, so I can't blame them.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Again.

    Tattoos = texture modification.
    Dracthyr = model modification.

    LF tattoos do absolutely nothing to impede a chest piece texture being applied to a model. If you slap a chest piece texture onto arms that have a bunch of spikes poking out, you end up with something that looks like complete shit. There is a reason why the pandaren heel and toe sections have permanent gold ornamental outlines.
    I see what you're saying, but if a few spikes/fins protruding from the arms and legs are the problem, I fail to see why they should be. It wouldn't take a whole lot of coding to get those to disappear when armor slot X is being displayed, just like hair does for hats.

    Helms and cloaks could understandably never show, ofc.

  15. #235
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruxx View Post
    I see what you're saying, but if a few spikes/fins protruding from the arms and legs are the problem, I fail to see why they should be. It wouldn't take a whole lot of coding to get those to disappear when armor slot X is being displayed, just like hair does for hats.

    Helms and cloaks could understandably never show, ofc.
    Full armor and cloaks would look absolutely ridiculous on Dracthyrs.

    This is a case of people thinking they want something, but they really don't.

  16. #236
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Full armor and cloaks would look absolutely ridiculous on Dracthyrs. This is a case of people thinking they want something, but they really don't.
    Only helms would look ridiculous for the same reason they do on Worgen. The snout. A cloak wouldn't look that bad as wings would just clip through. It was stated that they are likely able to wear a tabard which would have the same issues on the back. The only difference between a cloak and a tabard is the cloak sits above the tail though cloaks aren't really part of "full armor" in my opinion since they aren't included in tier sets. So no big deal if a Drac'thyr can't wear a cloak. The only downside to that is all the "cool" special stuff is in the cloak/back slot.

    Wowhead allows you to dress up a naga NPC and that looks weird because of having no legs. A Drac'thyr would be fairly normal with full armor. If Blizzard didn't had the extra pieces that stick out then there would be zero conflict besides the wings and cloaks.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-06-14 at 03:51 AM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  17. #237
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Only helms would look ridiculous for the same reason they do on Worgen. The snout. A cloak wouldn't look that bad as wings would just clip through. It was stated that they are likely able to wear a tabard which would have the same issues on the back. The only difference between a cloak and a tabard is the cloak sits above the tail though cloaks aren't really part of "full armor" in my opinion since they aren't included in tier sets. So no big deal if a Drac'thyr can't wear a cloak. The only downside to that is all the "cool" special stuff is in the cloak/back slot.

    Wowhead allows you to dress up a naga NPC and that looks weird because of having no legs. A Drac'thyr would be fairly normal with full armor. If Blizzard didn't had the extra pieces that stick out then there would be zero conflict besides the wings and cloaks.
    Weapons, and shields would also look ridiculous on Dracthyr. Not to mention the boots, or lack thereof. You're also forgetting their huge tails, which would cause further issues with the back slot and belts and pants.

    When helms, cloaks, weapons, shoes, and pants don't work with the model, why are we bothering with armor?
    Last edited by Teriz; 2022-06-14 at 04:05 AM.

  18. #238
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Weapons, and shields would also look ridiculous on Dracthyr. Not to mention the boots, or lack thereof. You're also forgetting their huge tails, which would cause further issues with the back slot and belts and pants.
    You are aware that tails exist on current models just fine, right? They just clip through and don't cause an issue. Shoes are not an issue just like they are not for the hooves and paws we already have. Drac'thyr feet are nothing unique and the claws/nails that stick out could easily be hidden when armor is equipped. A shield currently isn't a problem because Evokers presumably can't equip them. They can just hide wearing a weapon on the back when "sheathed".
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #239
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You are aware that tails exist on current models just fine, right? They just clip through and don't cause an issue. Shoes are not an issue just like they are not for the hooves and paws we already have. Drac'thyr feet are nothing unique and the claws/nails that stick out could easily be hidden when armor is equipped. A shield currently isn't a problem because Evokers presumably can't equip them. They can just hide wearing a weapon on the back when "sheathed".
    No race in the game has a tail as large and long as the dracthyr;



    And considering the fins/spikes/whatever on those tails, that's going to cause some major clipping with the pants and cloak.

    Again, if we're eliminating the helmet, the cloak, weapons, shoes/boots, and pants because they simply don't work with the model, why are we bothering with armor at all?

    Also I'm mentioning shields because some people seem to believe that one day Drachtyr will be able to play classes beyond Evoker.

  20. #240
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No race in the game has a tail as large and long as the dracthyr;
    It doesn't matter. A tail just clips through pants like with every other race. Just because it is long or larger at the base doesn't change how it will look with "belts and pants" compared to existing models. No existing tail has armor cover the tail so I'm not sure why you think the spikes and other bits on the tail would even be a factor. The only one eliminating all those things is yourself.

    Feet work the same as other races with "non-human" feet. Helms can still exist just like they do with Worgen. They just look weird. Weapons sheathed on backs look weird for most anyways so it isn't a big deal to get rid of that aspect. Pants would work just fine with the model. Even Mechagnomes get part of pants showing up.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

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