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  1. #241
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It doesn't matter. A tail just clips through pants like with every other race. Just because it is long or larger at the base doesn't change how it will look with "belts and pants" compared to existing models. No existing tail has armor cover the tail so I'm not sure why you think the spikes and other bits on the tail would even be a factor. The only one eliminating all those things is yourself.
    I'm eliminating it because it would be a clipping mess. The large base would eliminate a good portion of the pants, and the large tail and wings would clip heavily with cloaks. This is by design, since Blizzard knew that a creature with draconic attributes simply wouldn't work with standard player armor and gear.

    Feet work the same as other races with "non-human" feet. Helms can still exist just like they do with Worgen. They just look weird. Weapons sheathed on backs look weird for most anyways so it isn't a big deal to get rid of that aspect. Pants would work just fine with the model. Even Mechagnomes get part of pants showing up.
    The problem is that it would all look weird except probably the chest, shoulders and belt. Which is why Blizzard gave their dragon forms customized armor.

  2. #242
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I'm eliminating it because it would be a clipping mess. The large base would eliminate a good portion of the pants, and the large tail and wings would clip heavily with cloaks.
    The butt is not a large portion of pants and Mechagnomes only have "under pants" and any "pouches". So again your elimination isn't based on existing models and what does or does not show. It wouldn't look weird at all. All of the armor now isn't tailor made and we have different leg shapes and angles. The only reason why things will look weird is because Blizzard gave them extra parts that would clip through.

    Also the whole tail issue ignores how Chest and Tabard slots would have the tail clip through. So your own argument doesn't even match what you say won't look weird. Strange, right?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  3. #243
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The butt is not a large portion of pants and Mechagnomes only have "under pants" and any "pouches". So again your elimination isn't based on existing models and what does or does not show. It wouldn't look weird at all. All of the armor now isn't tailor made and we have different leg shapes and angles. The only reason why things will look weird is because Blizzard gave them extra parts that would clip through.
    Which is exactly what I said. Now add a massive tail to that clipping mightily with the pants.

    Also the whole tail issue ignores how Chest and Tabard slots would have the tail clip through. So your own argument doesn't even match what you say won't look weird. Strange, right?
    Again, their armor is customized for their body types. It isn't any chest or tabard armor, it's armor and tabard specifically for Dracthyr that you can customize in the Barbershop;



    The visage form is where you get to play dress up with the standard WoW armor and gear.

  4. #244
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Which is exactly what I said. Now add a massive tail to that clipping mightily with the pants.
    A tail clipping through pants doesn't look weird. The extra parts I'm referencing are the 3d parts on their arms and legs. Not the extra parts on the tail that wouldn't even be covered by armor lol.

    Again, their armor is customized for their body types. It isn't any chest or tabard armor, it's armor and tabard specifically for Dracthyr that they can customize in the Barbershop;
    From the Blizzard interviews they indicated that they would be able to wear anything in certain slots and not just custom-tailored items.

    Tina Wang: So Dracthyr, I think they’ll also be able to wear shoulders, tabards, belts across their visage and Dracthyr form. While the visage form is able to wear all-armor. https://www.wowhead.com/news/more-dr...r-torso-326793
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I'm eliminating it because it would be a clipping mess. The large base would eliminate a good portion of the pants, and the large tail and wings would clip heavily with cloaks. This is by design, since Blizzard knew that a creature with draconic attributes simply wouldn't work with standard player armor and gear.



    The problem is that it would all look weird except probably the chest, shoulders and belt. Which is why Blizzard gave their dragon forms customized armor.
    Draenei men have waaaaay thicker tail bases than Dracthyr and it's a non issue.
    Regardless, I don't see how everything looking bad would be an issue. If you don't like it, you can hide it regardless.

  6. #246
    The Patient Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruxx View Post
    Draenei men have waaaaay thicker tail bases than Dracthyr and it's a non issue.
    Regardless, I don't see how everything looking bad would be an issue. If you don't like it, you can hide it regardless.
    Indeed. I truly cannot grasp how someone can be so against a suggestion that is only additive and would take away nothing from the existing options.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Deathwing's armor existed to prevent him from melting away due to his corruption. It is more like prosthesis than armor.
    So if not his Self-melting, he would run around naked with big black donger? or looking like KEN?
    Last edited by cocomen2; 2022-06-14 at 09:24 PM.

  8. #248
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    So if not his Self-melting, he would run around naked with big black donger? or looking like KEN?
    As you might have noticed, no dragon runs around with pants. And they don't have dongs schlonging around because as reptiles, all that stuff is kept inside a cloaca.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    As you might have noticed, no dragon runs around with pants. And they don't have dongs schlonging around because as reptiles, all that stuff is kept inside a cloaca.
    Then allow them wear a PANTS.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I'm eliminating it because it would be a clipping mess.
    Except it wouldn't be, because literally every single playqable race with a tail that can wear pants is not a "clipping nightmare". To follow with your next post claim,

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Which is exactly what I said. Now add a massive tail to that clipping mightily with the pants.
    For the tail to do that, it would have to be animated in such a way that defies any sense of logic for the tail to move. Because remember, all pants are is a texture image applied to the legs geoset, which for tailed races like Draenei/Tauren/Vulpera/Pandaren, is already connected to the body and thus incapable of clipping in the way you think it would. They way you keep arguing, the tail would have to move like this:

    for your claims of "massive clipping" to have any sort of validity.

    And as to how much Blizzard cares for clipping, I will remind you that Worgen females had clipping issues for 9 years until they finally updated the models. And even to this day clipping occurs with every player race with the 3D parts that are used for armor, as well as even the basic animations will have some clipping occur because that's just the nature of 3d models. This is of course quite demonstrable with any shoulder armor as those have been clipping with the player models since literally day one of the alpha for this game.

    So no, clipping is not an argument because it's been going on since day 1, and even the Dracthyr have clipping going on in their animations that have been shown, as seen here, and this is with the custom piece of chest armor that was designed specifically for them:

    To wit, here's a cropped part of the dance animation to help illustrate it.

    This is sequential in the animation, so for the bottom of the chest piece to be where it is in relation to the knee, the leg would have to had clipped right through it to get there, as you can see the gold edge of the chest piece start right where the upper leg is, which means that Dracthyr already have clipping issues with the custom chest piece that was designed solely for them and them alone.

    Edit: As a further show, I've taken the liberty of crudely drawing how the leg is clipping through the chest piece, by doing a rough outline of the leg where it reaches the crotch(red), the outline of the tabard as based on the visible part (green), and where the clipping occurs (orange):
    Last edited by Cradix; 2022-06-15 at 01:56 AM.

  11. #251
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cradix View Post
    This is sequential in the animation, so for the bottom of the chest piece to be where it is in relation to the knee, the leg would have to had clipped right through it to get there, as you can see the gold edge of the chest piece start right where the upper leg is, which means that Dracthyr already have clipping issues with the custom chest piece that was designed solely for them and them alone.
    Do we know that it is custom though? Or just a basic tabard/chest that they were stated as a potential slot they will show even when in Drac'thyr form. Those leg scale ridges are supposed to be 3d right? So the clipping is likely from that rather then an issue with "custom gear". The same reason why Blizzard has given for why their gear options are limited.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Do we know that it is custom though? Or just a basic tabard/chest that they were stated as a potential slot they will show even when in Drac'thyr form. Those leg scale ridges are supposed to be 3d right? So the clipping is likely from that rather then an issue with "custom gear". The same reason why Blizzard has given for why their gear options are limited.
    Yea, the chest item is one of the custom chest pieces they had mentioned, as the body of the tabard, the leather straps, and the buttons on it are 3d objects and not just textures applied to the model, whereas the regular player tabard is just a texture applied to the body while calling for the waist flap geoset to be turned on when you equip one.

    As for the legs, yes, the scales are 3d as seen here:

    The clipping, however, is simply because the legs and chest piece are moving in a way that causes them to intersect that way. That's why I also added the outlines, tpo help show how the upper thigh being in front of the flap is impossible since the bottom of the thigh is clearly going behind the flap.

    As to scales, those could be easily solved by simply having a geoset that gives them smooth shoulders and legs for when they wear chest and leg items. All player models utilize geosets to allow for more varied armor while saving in model space before they started adding in the 3d armor pieces.

  13. #253
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    Indeed. I truly cannot grasp how someone can be so against a suggestion that is only additive and would take away nothing from the existing options.
    Except it wouldn’t be additive, it would look bad, and go against the general concept of the race. Which is why these awful armor suggestions (thankfully) aren’t happening.

    People are free to believe what they want at this point. It’s simply not worth arguing about.

  14. #254
    The Patient Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except it wouldn’t be additive, it would look bad, and go against the general concept of the race. Which is why these awful armor suggestions (thankfully) aren’t happening.

    People are free to believe what they want at this point. It’s simply not worth arguing about.
    And you are free to have a nude transmog should more options become available. Personally, given how humanoid the drac'thyr are, I think that looks horribly awkward. At least I am self-aware enough to acknowledge that what I think looks horribly awkward is appealing to other people, such as yourself. As such, I am glad you have the option.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    And you are free to have a nude transmog should more options become available. Personally, given how humanoid the drac'thyr are, I think that looks horribly awkward. At least I am self-aware enough to acknowledge that what I think looks horribly awkward is appealing to other people, such as yourself. As such, I am glad you have the option.
    Agreed on both counts. It's odd to be so against someone else having another option, and it also feels a bit uncanny to me to have such a straight posed bipedal wearing no pants.

  16. #256
    Herald of the Titans Chain Chungus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruxx View Post
    Agreed on both counts. It's odd to be so against someone else having another option, and it also feels a bit uncanny to me to have such a straight posed bipedal wearing no pants.
    I'd go so far to say pornographic, in a game rated T for teen.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    We all know that this has nothing to do with lore and everything to do with technical hurdles that they didn't take the time to explain (which was the correct choice for a teaser presentation). The texturing on the models (spikes, scales, etc.) and/or wings make it difficult to simply slap a new paintjob onto the Drac'thyr and have it look tolerable. I can completely understand if they don't give us the bodypoint armour and clothing. But if something uses a 3D model? That would "hover" above the skin and therefore avoid these issues? Toss those on.

    And if it isn't feasible to give all the mail armour attention to make sure they're only showing the 3D parts or whatever? Fair enough. But going forward... make the effort.

    For Evoker-specific gear, if nothing else.
    Bingo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Dracthyr have more effort spend on their model to the point where they can now no longer wear armour is not an argument in their favour, it just makes Blizzard look more stupid for investing time in actively removing an important feature to a significant part of the player base (the ability to play with our barbie transmog).

    If you were to hold a survey on the entire WoW player base asking if they want to wear armour on their humanoid dragon or have actual 3d scales and ridges on their leg that they might be able to see if they zoom in close enough but not be able to wear armour I am very confident in what the result would be.
    Well said and personally agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    Using Blizzard dev logic, their tier sets should be fitted perfectly for the model like heritage armor would. If it's exclusive to the race (and Evoker is only for Dracthyr) they should put in the effort for it to look good on their model. Like how they put in the effort for DH (and some legion leather) pieces to show off your tattoos.

    Most mail armor probably will look like the second image, but's to be expected since they don't want to resize everything that ever existed. But tier sets? At the very least, they should do that. There is little excuse there to implement a race they know looks bad and just doesn't work well for customization.
    Let's hope for the best. With Alpha nearing, perhaps we'll get that Dracthyr Devblog teased about going in-depth on them soon too.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    And idgaf about their reskinned elf form. I don't play a dragon just to turn into an elf/human again... so unneccesary
    Indeed. Again, is the race Dracthyr or Visage Form?

    It's almost like saying Chromie's true form is a Gnome if somebody answers the latter. Or even worse, insinuating a 'Dracthyr' really is an Elf/Human-oid that has draconic powers and can transform into a dragonoid for combat- which isn't how the race is being pitched.
    Last edited by elderu; 2022-06-28 at 03:19 AM.

  18. #258
    The Patient Berkilak's Avatar
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    Interesting answer when asked about armour:

    Certain key pieces show in your draconic form–shoulders, large geometric pieces like belt buckles. When we make things like tier sets, we know that this armor is custom-made for the Evoker, and so we can do more things than we could do elsewhere.

  19. #259
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    Interesting answer when asked about armour:
    This is promising.
    The concept art for the Evoker looks like it’d work so well with the Dracthyr.
    Hoping it’s visible after all, but we probably won’t see until Beta probably.

  20. #260
    I'm guessing their tier gear will unlock appearance in the barbershop much like druid forms.

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