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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Hmmm.......
    That is not related to the tier set or humanoid armor?


    you are trying to push a humanoid to humanoid armor rule to a humanoid to bear, completely different skeleton, plus those bear skins differ even by fur color and non armor related things

  2. #62
    Pandaren Monk czarek's Avatar
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    Would be cool to have some set visual addisions in dragon form. Maybe not an armor but some paints spell recolor or smth like druid forms

  3. #63
    Wasn't it confirmed that wome of the tmog will show up on dragon form? So I wouldn't be surprised if we could have some nicely dressed dragon buddies.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioporco View Post
    That is not related to the tier set or humanoid armor?


    you are trying to push a humanoid to humanoid armor rule to a humanoid to bear, completely different skeleton, plus those bear skins differ even by fur color and non armor related things
    You're changing the goalposts, now. Your original argument was "makes no sense and would be completely useless".

    The whole point is a number of that the druids' alternate forms can and do have armor on. Or pieces of it. Similar to the dracthyr.

    Dragons also don't wear armor in their normal forms, by the way.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You're changing the goalposts, now. Your original argument was "makes no sense and would be completely useless".

    The whole point is a number of that the druids' alternate forms can and do have armor on. Or pieces of it. Similar to the dracthyr.

    Dragons also don't wear armor in their normal forms, by the way.
    I am not changing anything.

    You wrote :
    The point of the comparison is that zero pieces of your armor shows in bear form.

    Exactly, YOUR ARMOR aka THE ARMOR ON THE NELF-TROLL-TAUREN-KULTIRAN-ZANDALRI HUMANOID doesnt makes sense to be applied on the BEAR FORM, dunno why nobody talks about CAT or BOOMIE form "armor", and it would be completely useless because from a logic standpoint your armor doesnt change shape or form to cover the entire bear fur/form when the main point of the bear form is that *checks notes*


    you are a bear.


    So the Legion Skins for Bear-Cats are WAY BETTER in any shape or form than "armor on a bear" and that is pretty much a fact, now I have no idea why boomkin form is left in the dumpster regarding new "skins"



    Meanwhile the Scalies are still humanoid, awful skinny humanoid but still humanoid so the armor/tier set or whatever has more sense to exist on both form.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just to be sure the °bear armor° rant is done forever since makes no sense the more we go deeper.

    Virgin random basic bear with some armor to cover the skin devs made and you choose in the creation screen



    VS



    or



    or



    or (but is malfurion only i guess)


    Last edited by Dioporco; 2022-05-05 at 02:20 PM.

  6. #66
    I could see dracthyrs being able to wear chest, legs, waist, shoulder and wrist armor while in dragon form given, we, the community give them feedback and that we'd really want the race to have at least SOME armor visible. Also since chest, legs and shoulders are the core components of tier gear, we'd be able to see that awesome looking set.

    Helmet, cloak, boots and gloves being visible wouldn't make sense because:
    -Gloves would cover the claws
    -Helmets would have weird interactions with the horns and also the head form in general
    -Cloaks would look weird with the wings
    -Boots same as gloves

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioporco View Post
    <snip>
    But dragons don't wear armor in their normal forms. And dracthyr are "descendants" of dragons, so lore-wise it makes sense that this idea of 'not wearing armor' carries over, with Blizzard reaching a compromise to allow shoulders, belts and tabards to help distinguish one dracthyr to the next.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    But dragons don't wear armor in their normal forms. And dracthyr are "descendants" of dragons, so lore-wise it makes sense that this idea of 'not wearing armor' carries over, with Blizzard reaching a compromise to allow shoulders, belts and tabards to help distinguish one dracthyr to the next.
    Ye DRAGONS.

    Dracthry are neither dragons nor humans or belf (since are those the humanoid form) hence they dont need to stick with the non armor rule for dragons.
    -I mean sure i would love to see Alexstraza in dragon form with armor and her humanoid form without, but isnt this the topic.-

    When Alexstraza needs to fight, she doesnt need a lot of armor in her human form and doesnt need armor in her dragon form because her dragon form is like this :

    DRAGONS in WOW



    this beefy mastodontic dragon doesnt need armor to clap you ass or claw your face or burn you cripsy




    meanwhile DRACTHYR FORM



    doesnt give any vibe of "bulky/stronk/beefy dragons that can yawn at arrows thrown at him/her" but more like "that thing could die from knowing soy-milk is expired or he isnt no more a discord mod"



    Hence that is why Dracthyr are OK to wear armors with their current feeble fragile body structure, no wonders they are just healers or casters and not tank.
    Meanwhile DRUIDS doesnt really need it.

    Neltharion MAKING THE MOST 6HEAD WEAPON ON AZEROTH, forgot to build a bulky body and to give them BLACK DRAGONFLIGHT powers to be tanky too.


    kappa
    Last edited by Dioporco; 2022-05-05 at 02:29 PM.

  9. #69
    Maybe the black dragons themselves were supposed to be the tanks, and the dracthyr were supposed to be their DPS and healers.

  10. #70
    Honestly, it's gonna be a MASSIVE disappointment if Dracthyr actually deploy only be able to 'mog shoulders and belts.

    They'll be missing out on a Tier set right from the very start, and that issue will only get worse over time.

    I fully understand they might get all "traditional" transmogs, particularly the older stuff that's literally JUST a texture pasted on your character's skin. But MOVING FORWARD, they should absolutely be able to wear their own Tier Sets, and ideally everything else as well.

  11. #71
    Looks awsome.

    But they apparantly don't want that. Because they would
    a) have to put some fucking effort into it
    b) loose the whole sexy scaly furry bullshit they have going with their nude lingerie dragons.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioporco View Post
    Ye DRAGONS.

    Dracthry are neither dragons nor humans or belf
    Dracthyr may not be full-fledged dragons, but:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    dracthyr are "descendants" of dragons
    They were created using draconic essence. In a sense, you can call them the "evolutionary next step of dragons".

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Yeah, stretching for sure already exist... the drawback of having shared textures across multitude of races with different shapes. They are however manageable.

    If the solution is to not model the race that it becomes an issue... how would you make this race?
    How would you make a dragon race without it's wings for example? You would have a model looking more like a lizard. Fairly sure people would want to have wings on the model....
    Thus it will share texture space, thus it will have a different UV mapping, thus it will not work with current textures.
    The solution's actually simpler. You just give the wings their own texture that's independent of the base body texture. That way the body can be uv mapped to use player armor, and the wings don't use the armor since the game never calls for them to be covered by armor, much like how Worgen scruff and Mechagnome mechanical parts stay uncovered by player armor while the rest of them gets covered.

    And, as a good visual example of such a tactic, here's a vanilla model human female using Lanathel's texture, as Lanathel is a basic Blood Elf female using the base player texture mapping who had wings slapped onto her back. Both textures Lanathel uses are also shown:

  14. #74
    The Patient Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cradix View Post
    The solution's actually simpler. You just give the wings their own texture that's independent of the base body texture. That way the body can be uv mapped to use player armor, and the wings don't use the armor since the game never calls for them to be covered by armor, much like how Worgen scruff and Mechagnome mechanical parts stay uncovered by player armor while the rest of them gets covered.

    And, as a good visual example of such a tactic, here's a vanilla model human female using Lanathel's texture, as Lanathel is a basic Blood Elf female using the base player texture mapping who had wings slapped onto her back. Both textures Lanathel uses are also shown:
    That was my assumption, but I'm not expert so I'm not going to chime in beyond this.

    Suffice it to say, I don't think that request is beyond the realm of possibility.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Cradix View Post
    The solution's actually simpler. You just give the wings their own texture that's independent of the base body texture. That way the body can be uv mapped to use player armor, and the wings don't use the armor since the game never calls for them to be covered by armor, much like how Worgen scruff and Mechagnome mechanical parts stay uncovered by player armor while the rest of them gets covered.

    And, as a good visual example of such a tactic, here's a vanilla model human female using Lanathel's texture, as Lanathel is a basic Blood Elf female using the base player texture mapping who had wings slapped onto her back. Both textures Lanathel uses are also shown:

    Yeah, that's how I would do it as well. I think I mentioned it in later posts... fairly sure I touched upon this.
    Even in your example though you can see that the textures are just messed up. Correct places, but messed up.
    It could also be that these named NPC's are made with exceptions in the implementation. Which can work for a model that work with 1 set of looks and design purposes. But when adding it to a model that's supposed to work with everything else in the past and also in the future making exceptions can cause troubles.

    It's very hard to comment on this without seeing their workflow. The only logical conclusion I CAN draw however is that it's not as simple as people assume. Because if it was it would be easy work. Maybe the wings already have their own textures but the body proportions compared to other races is enough to make the textures look as bad as on the night elf on the left. IF it was as simple as placing the UV mapping according to older textures there's really no work in matching that compared to doing any other UV work. I have a hard time believing the lazy argument because frankly if it could work, it would be the lazy option.

    Lets say you have 2 humanoids... 1 being a regular wow Human and one being the charger from L2D


    If you were to match the arm textures on the charger to a regular humans textures, due to proportions the big arm on the charger would be having stretched textures and most likely some blurry look to it due to the resolution of it. In contrast the other arm would be opposite. It would probably look alright length wise, but around the arm the texture would be squished and, if we assume it's smaller than the humans arm, it would look more sharp because of the higher resolution space on it.

    There's lots of issues reusing textures between models based on proportions alone. We already see this with pandarens stomache, but that's a compromise they went with. I would assume more parts would look bad on the Dracthyr since it's not done on them. As well as matching their mapping to old textures could lead to bad resolutions for their own body parts which could use higher resolution in the texture space.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-05-06 at 06:53 PM.

  16. #76
    The Patient Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Yeah, that's how I would do it as well. I think I mentioned it in later posts... fairly sure I touched upon this.
    Even in your example though you can see that the textures are just messed up. Correct places, but messed up.

    It's very hard to comment on this without seeing their workflow. The only logical conclusion I CAN draw however is that it's not as simple as people assume. Because if it was it would be easy work. Maybe the wings already have their own textures but the body proportions compared to other races is enough to make the textures look as bad as on the night elf on the left. IF it was as simple as placing the UV mapping according to older textures there's really no work in matching that compared to doing any other UV work. I have a hard time believing the lazy argument because frankly if it could work, it would be the lazy option.
    I'm more inclined to believe the reason is more philosophical than technical. Regardless of the difficulty (of which I do not doubt), if they wanted it to get done, it would get done. My assumption can only be that they want to emphasize the dragon fantasy by showing as many scales as they can.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    I'm more inclined to believe the reason is more philosophical than technical. Regardless of the difficulty (of which I do not doubt), if they wanted it to get done, it would get done. My assumption can only be that they want to emphasize the dragon fantasy by showing as many scales as they can.
    Yeah, that's also a possibility.
    I wish they add as much armor choices as possible though. 3d pieces shouldn't be difficult, like shoulders.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-05-06 at 06:47 PM.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Yeah, that's also a possibility.
    I wish they add as much armor choices as possible though. 3d pieces shouldn't be difficult, like shoulders.
    Which is why I really like this mockup - it "ignores" the painted-on base layer in favour of natural hide and displays the 3D parts. This is exactly how it should be done, and would always look very striking.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    Which is why I really like this mockup - it "ignores" the painted-on base layer in favour of natural hide and displays the 3D parts. This is exactly how it should be done, and would always look very striking.
    Yeah...curious how people would react to belts though. Since not all belts are 3d models. In fact, most aren't(not sure?) afaik.
    So that would lead to some belts being transmogable and others wouldn't be.

    And this is where politics comes in. Do you implement a compromise like that and hope people would accept it, or would the backlash of "some transmogs work and some don't" be worse than none of it?

    I wish the discourse between developers and players wouldn't be filled with so much animosity. I think we would have more compromises or "half-assed" implementations if that wasn't the case. But I can totally see why if developers can't commit 100% to an idea they won't do it.
    This of course have to be met with developers coming out and explain why things can't be done on a technical level. But even that in my experience is often just for naught. Since it's just "excuses".

  20. #80
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    A permissible compromise for me would be to simply show only Evoker gear on Evokers. No need to dive into the entire back catalogue of Shaman and Hunter gear.

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