Can we agree that crafted legendaries failed?

[Aydinx2]

Like it or not, people buying gold through tokens to pay for a legendary is P2W.

Legendaries don't make you win in any way. They don't make you beat a player in PvP or defeat a raid boss.
And you can get them without ever buying a token, so literally all the token does is save time. I don't consider spending less time in WoW as "winning".

[Raelbo]

When everyone has them, they aren’t legendarys. Just orange crafted gear essentially.

Exclusivity is half of what made real legendary feel legendary. When an entire guild decides to build X person that weapon over anyone else, etc.

Exclusivity and truly rare items is something wow is sorely missing from an rpg perspective. About the only real “legendady’s” left are certain pets and mounts that are seasonal and suspect to FoMO

When’s the last time a legendary felt legendary? The staff from firelands?

While there was certainly something to be said for those unique legendaries, let's not pretend that system wasn't without its own share of drawbacks.

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Legendaries don't make you win in any way. They don't make you beat a player in PvP or defeat a raid boss.

Whether or not they make you win is irrelevant if you don't need to spend real money to acquire them.

And you can get them without ever buying a token, so literally all the token does is save time. I don't consider spending less time in WoW as "winning".

And to be clear. It means spending less time playing the game, not waiting longer to acquire the legendary.

[chiddie]

i started on a abandoned alt this reset (last wednesday) that i havent touched since 9.0 in full green quest gear.

on the end of this week im at Renown 80 (catch-up renown 40 item), 242 ilvl and ive crafted 1x 291 lego from doing jailers gauntlet, ZM and torghast and cleared ZM storyline for ilvl 265 belt and ive also managed to get 2 piece tier set from the forge all in all ive been playing for 6-7 hours this reset and i managed to get all the gold i needed for enchants and that 291 ilvl item running the content i needed to do to get some gear, my 291 lego piece was roughly 40k.

how fast do you expect a new toon to get geared?

Fresh lvl 70 with maybe ilvl 150 to ilvl 242 in 6-7 hours is simply impossible, even with someone carrying you through ZM. You simply won’t gather enough cyphers to make rares and WQ drop ilvl 242+ items.

[Kehego]

While there was certainly something to be said for those unique legendaries, let's not pretend that system wasn't without its own share of drawbacks.

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Whether or not they make you win is irrelevant if you don't need to spend real money to acquire them.



And to be clear. It means spending less time playing the game, not waiting longer to acquire the legendary.

You don't need to use real money to acquire anything in this game

and, acquisition of things in wow sure as fuck aint winning.

anyway a 291 legendary is 15k.
Go do some callings.

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Fresh lvl 70 with maybe ilvl 150 to ilvl 242 in 6-7 hours is simply impossible, even with someone carrying you through ZM. You simply won’t gather enough cyphers to make rares and WQ drop ilvl 242+ items.

sand circle mob drops 246 weapons
most rares have 236 drops, treasure gear is 236+

with 291/265 legendaries that's not entirely impossible. He's just more efficient than you are

[justandulas]

While there was certainly something to be said for those unique legendaries, let's not pretend that system wasn't without its own share of drawbacks.

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Whether or not they make you win is irrelevant if you don't need to spend real money to acquire them.



And to be clear. It means spending less time playing the game, not waiting longer to acquire the legendary.

Yea I wasn’t trying to say the old system was perfection and flawless my dude. My guild in wotlk, for example, worked hard to get our guild healing leader the mace from ulduar and the day he gets it (no bs) dude quits the guild with burnout. It set us back weeks or more

I was just saying that when everyone is crafting 2-3 legendarys, they kinda fail to be legendary and basically just become crafted gear.

I prefer the older system just cuz it made them feel exclusive and rare, but it also only had like 1 legendary for tier total if that when, ideally, each class would have a shot at one per expansion.

[chiddie]

You don't need to use real money to acquire anything in this game

and, acquisition of things in wow sure as fuck aint winning.

anyway a 291 legendary is 15k.
Go do some callings.

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sand circle mob drops 246 weapons
most rares have 236 drops, treasure gear is 236+

with 291/265 legendaries that's not entirely impossible. He's just more efficient than you are

Sand circle mobs spawn rate is ridiculously low. Not many chances he will drop a weapon in 6/7 hours. Probably he won’t even see one of the 3 up in 6/7 hours. And gl if he needs offhand also.

Rares have 236 but drop is not 100% and duplicates may occur quite frequently. Treasure gear is quite rare too. And then there’s trinkets. Sandsworn Gear is not even an option.

Seems VERY unlikely to me, sorry, unless there are all sort of astral combos like once every century or so.

It MAY be possible within a reset, but surely not in 6/7 hours total.

[kamuimac]

I realize it was an attempt to step away from the RNG legendaries that we had before, but the way it turned out to be was more a cash grab for blizzard.

Crafters profit is near 0 with all expensive secondary mats needed, while buyers have to be spending anywhere from 40-200k just to be relevant with their maxed leggo slots for one spec. If we start getting into off specs and alts, i think people are easily spending towards 1m gold.

How do average players make that much money? They don't, they buy tokens.

I'm already spending 15 euros a month to play, i dont really want to be spending another 20 euros to equip my must-have gear.

inb4, yeah have fun grinding out that gold with dailies. Nobody got time for that.

what do you mean failed ?

they were abslute succes - blizzard made hundreds of milions of $$$ from selling all the gold that was needed to buy them

ah you mean for players ? but blizz dont care about players anymore

[Ielenia]

Like it or not, people buying gold through tokens to pay for a legendary is P2W. When you play candy crush, you can pay money to buy things that will make you more powerful. Unless your trying to claim that candy crush doesn't have P2W feature then you are just being dishonest about wow.

It's not "pay to win".

I'll give you an example of actual 'pay to win'. Without giving names, there used to be a game around (I think it was a korean MMO?) where you could upgrade your gear to up to +10. But going above +5 not only required a reagent that very rarely dropped from rare and very tough monsters (but you could buy it in the game shop!) but it also incurred a stacking +20% chance per level above 5 to fail to upgrade, losing all your reagents. But there was a special reagent that would neutralize the failure chance, but it was exclusive to the cash shop.

That same game also had one mount available by acquisition through the game, that you're given early on. The problem is that getting up on that mount would lock your character in a mounting animation for three whole seconds, where you couldn't move or use abilities. The dozens of mounts from the cash shop would have you mount instantly and never locked you in animations. And were faster.

That game also had the best PvP armor in the cash shop, too. For comparison, imagine the best PvP gear you could get in WoW was "quest green" quality gear, but the armor in the cash shop would be the equivalent to Gladiator gear.

That is pay to win. Having everything available in the game, able to be acquired with in-game currency or through playing the game is not "pay to win."

[Uvania]

Fresh lvl 70 with maybe ilvl 150 to ilvl 242 in 6-7 hours is simply impossible, even with someone carrying you through ZM. You simply won’t gather enough cyphers to make rares and WQ drop ilvl 242+ items.

Full 233 from cypher 1/6 and 4 of 5 tier pieces right now from sandworn relics (join a custom grp rare farm raid), 2x 242 rings from WQ / PwP chest, 265 lego belt, 291 lego cloak, 252 trink from tbc timewalking event and i also did a +0 NW and got the sword from there at ilvl 236 and other trinket a blue one ilvl 236 from WQ, arms warrior.

but yeah, i spent about 2 hours today getting another 2 pieces of tier set gear rare farming in ZM for sandworn relics, glad im done with that farm now

[Lawlhero]

Made enough gold to fund next expansion through legendaries. As a crafter they seemed to be a success to me.

[Watchers]

Yeah, who didn't like playing the lottery for 18 months hoping for the correct legiondary to drop from some random shit. That was amazing compared to getting legendaries from dedicated sources with only a select few gated behind anything other than effort.

it might been a lottery, but the legendary was good and a boost even the most bad of them, so it was exciting.

[Celement]

Made enough gold to fund next expansion through legendaries. As a crafter they seemed to be a success to me.

That is a pretty awful bar. I made three ah mounts of gold selling vision carries I wouldn't use that as a point to say it worked.

Getting casual players to buy a token to have their class work at a basic level shouldn't be a design goal.

[kamuimac]

Fresh lvl 70 with maybe ilvl 150 to ilvl 242 in 6-7 hours is simply impossible, even with someone carrying you through ZM. You simply won’t gather enough cyphers to make rares and WQ drop ilvl 242+ items.

i got my fresh survival hunter to 257 in literaly 10 hours played on max level . and from there its only mythic 15-17 with my guild. could be even faster but i wanted to be ready for 15s so i dont slow them down and its my 13th max level alt so i dont care about it . only thing its missing atm is 4 set (because farming those relics is limited daily) and decent weapon (have 246 one from dune rares)

just because some people dont know how to play efficiently it doesnt mean its not possible

[neescher]

it might been a lottery, but the legendary was good and a boost even the most bad of them, so it was exciting.

No, the bad legendaries were, as the name suggests, bad. So bad that people actually started leveling the *same* character from scratch to have another chance at an actual good legendary.

I was really excited and happy when my heroic leap finally had 3 charges. That really boosted my damage (and FUN)

It might have been fun and exciting for casuals, but for anyone who did actual hard content it sure wasn't.

[Coldkil]

just because some people dont know how to play efficiently it doesnt mean its not possible

So you got boosted. Not sayign it's not fine, but you got boosted. Let's call thing with their names. This said it's not hard to get to a decent ilvl to tackle on relevant content, especially now with the legendaries being cheap and the catchup things we have.

[neescher]

So you got boosted. Not sayign it's not fine, but you got boosted. Let's call thing with their names. This said it's not hard to get to a decent ilvl to tackle on relevant content, especially now with the legendaries being cheap and the catchup things we have.

The thing is, the most difficult part of gearing alts is getting groups. If you have a guild group (I'm not even saying you need to get carried, just get a few people's alts at 230-245 ilvl) you can easily gear your alt quickly. Just spam those m+

Spend a few hours in ZM to have enough flux for a couple of set items, and you're good to go.

[Skildar]

i got my fresh survival hunter to 257 in literaly 10 hours played on max level . and from there its only mythic 15-17 with my guild. could be even faster but i wanted to be ready for 15s so i dont slow them down and its my 13th max level alt so i dont care about it . only thing its missing atm is 4 set (because farming those relics is limited daily) and decent weapon (have 246 one from dune rares)

just because some people dont know how to play efficiently it doesnt mean its not possible

playing efficiently is different than getting carried by fully geared mates

[ek0zu]

i got my fresh survival hunter to 257 in literaly 10 hours played on max level . and from there its only mythic 15-17 with my guild. could be even faster but i wanted to be ready for 15s so i dont slow them down and its my 13th max level alt so i dont care about it . only thing its missing atm is 4 set (because farming those relics is limited daily) and decent weapon (have 246 one from dune rares)

just because some people dont know how to play efficiently it doesnt mean its not possible

teach me master and i am saying this without any irony.

[Bats]

That is a pretty awful bar. I made three ah mounts of gold selling vision carries I wouldn't use that as a point to say it worked.

Getting casual players to buy a token to have their class work at a basic level shouldn't be a design goal.

Basically what I was thinking.

The whole design of these legendaries was with that scummy token in mind.

[Mic_128]

it might been a lottery, but the legendary was good and a boost even the most bad of them, so it was exciting.

I liked the fact it kept all raids relevant for the entire expansion. Was great for alts and transmog runs. Could find groups for every raid at every difficulty.

Then in BFA it was the most recent raid only, and often even finding normal difficulty was difficult, with people getting geared for heroic from warfronts and everything else