Page 6 of 19 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
16
... LastLast
  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    I would call a PvP win to advance legendary questline a "lottery" if you're not playing Horde.
    In the same way the mage tower rewards are a lottery or access to Wintergrasp or Tol Barad was a lottery. I mean, I really didn't care for the PVP requirement in the cloak chain but it was literally one win, wasn't it? It wasn't like "get rank 10 or better in Classic to proceed".

    The problem is that you have so many classes/specs now... Do you really want to tell the playerbase hey this xpac, it's X classes turn to get a "legendary" the rest will need to wait for the next xpac. Oh and forget about seeing a "legendary" if your class was the one we just did in the last xpac because it's going to be a decade before we get back to you since we're doing only 2 at a time... Of the 36 specs and 12 classes.. (Well now 38 specs and 13 classes in DF)
    I mean, I guess, but this was the way they were doing it at the height of the game's popularity, too and I can't remember ever having heard one person ever give their reason for leaving as "I just couldn't stand that they gave caster DPS a legendary staff and I just had farm for the amazing reskin of an old legendary for my 2H DPS weapon", or similar.

    For that matter, even while Shadowlands was burning the WoW playerbase to the ground, I don't remember much pushback on Hunters getting a legendary bow off Sylvanas. If anything I feel it's one of the few things people concede made sense about this dumpster fire.

    Broken down by weapon type it's not as hard to cover everyone, especially not two at a time. We don't really know Invoker weapons yet, right, but it's presumed to probably cover mage + priest?

    If they were going to go back to that system *in* DF, I'd assume Invokers would be included... one handed sword? Just on casters that covers Mage, Lock, probably Invoker, and Hpally if you feel like making it have healer "mode". Or even a phys DPS mode and suddenly rogues, warriors, DKs, and DHs can play too?

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    There is a very, very large discrepency between your statement and your argument here bro :P

    I play for around 8-10 hours a week atm and i'm making around 2-4k. I'm not about to play more to grind. I have a gold supluss atm but taking 200k out of my budget for every legendary is not feasable. And no, i'm not going to use a fucking 190 legendary.
    I've done this simple arithmetic for so many people, I'll do it for you too my dude. How to farm gold without farming gold in SL.

    1) Daily Callings. Each one of these dailies takes literally 15 minutes to complete, since we can fly in all 4 original SL zones, and it is 9.0 content which means the mobs you gotta kill have between 8k-12k HP. These award, minimum, 2k gold. You get 7 of these per week. 7x 15 minutes = 1h45 mins per week for 14k gold per week.

    2) Mission Table. The mission table in SL is the most balanced we've had ever since it was introduced in the garisson in WOD. You spend 5 minutes when you log in and 5 minutes when you log off, to set it up. That's 1h10 minutes per week. The mission table awards anywhere between 1-3k gold per day, depending on which missions you've set. Let's take the midpoint of 1k and 3k which is 2k per day. That's another 14k per week.

    3) ANYTHING you gather while doing your daily callings and harvesting your mission table goes on the AH. That's another 5 minutes per day before you log off every night. Pop to your Capital, open your Reagent bag (yes you can set your bags for different purposes in the default blizz UI nowadays), go to the AH and start right clicking every single thing you have gathered/harvested in your daily adventures. This income can vary, so let's low-ball it at 1k/day for 5 mins per day meaning we're at 7k/week for 5x7 = 35 mins a week.

    In total we have:

    14k + 14k + 7k gold per week = 35k gold per week, for

    1h45 + 1h10 + 35 mins = 3h30 of effort per week.

    You heard that right folks. Dalinos' Shadowlands gold-farming method without farming gold. 35,000 gold per week for a time investment of three and a half hours a week. 3h30 mins is 210 minutes / 7 days is...you guessed it. Half an hour a day. For half a fucking hour per day you can have 35,000 gold per week.

    And the best part? You don't even do all this shit for the gold. The gold is a bonus. You do it for Reputation, you do it for Anima for cosmetics, you do it for mounts, you do it for paragon chests that reward their own mounts, you do it for Renown (back in 9.0 and 9.1), you do it for achievements, you do it for 50 different reasons OTHER than farming gold. You just...get the gold passively. 1 Daily Calling, if you're lucky with which one it is, can be not a double-dip, not a triple-dip, not even a quadriple-dip, but a fuckin grand QUINTIPLE-dip in the rewards you are getting. Rep-Anima-Mounts-Transmog-Gold. From 1 damn activity. With Warmode On of course, cause we want that juicy +25% resources when we farm.

    Now, if you weren't wasting your time on MMO-Champion complaining about legendaries, and you used your 30 minutes playing the game we all love, you would have no money issues in SL.
    Last edited by Dalinos; 2022-04-26 at 12:09 AM.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    If it means anything to the recipient then it's meaningful. It's personal and others don't get to judge how much or what it meant. Besides, progression in that sense is bought and sold every day with people buying runs and raiding guilds happy to be in business selling them. People pay money for things that have meaning for them all the time. I'm not arrogant enough to imagine I can judge them.

    EDIT: To answer the question posed in the thread: Crafted legendaries failed as a system for some. I'm pretty sure they worked for others. So no, I'm not inclined to agree.
    How far we will fall when when fatalism and apathy take hold to such a degree we excuse horrible design because everything can be whaled.

    There are those who are so apathetic and permissive they would rather the world rots around them then be moved to action or choice. The true tragedy though is they believe its moralistic to do so.

  4. #104
    Legitimately the worst aspect of the entire expansion for me. I legitimately hate it.

    I'm honestly shocked that Blizzard is moving away from this model though because I have no doubt that they sold a shit ton of WoW tokens due to it. So have to give them a little credit for that.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    It is patently impossible for the "average player" to acquire gold via tokens. The way the system works in practice is that a small portion of the portion spends cash to buy tokens while another small portion of the playerbase sells their gold to acquire those tokens.



    Making 40-200K gold is not hard if you're just playing the game a few hours a week. Callings take a few minutes to complete for 2K, there is the weekly Anima quest which just happens, there is the mission table that can supply easily 1K per day for literally 2 minutes of effort.

    There is absolutely zero need for any kind of "grind". Just play the game for 15-20 mins each day (or an hour every 3rd day) and you're golden - easily to the tune of 25K per week. That is well over 1M in a year, and way more than enough to cover the paltry amount you "need" as an "average player". And honestly, if you aren't prepared to put in that much effort, then having a cash option to acquire that gold should be seen as a blessing.
    This...^^^^. I'm definitely not a "hardcore" player... I've gotten a little more into raiding the last few expansions then I used to but even then its normal/heroic. I've sometimes missed my guilds achievement for AOTC, in fact, I've only gotten it like 3 times total in the last three expansions. I do some mythic plus but other than buying a +15 run once I've rarely done higher than a +5. This current season is the highest mythic plus rating I've ever had and its a whopping 740. All that being said, I've earned enough gold between all my alts and just grinding callings, etc to have two 291s on my main (main spec only, off spec's have the 291 unity leggo shared between all 3 and the other being 235s). Yet all my other alts have at least one legendary at 235 for at least one of their specs (I'm up to 5 toons now having the unity belt for free from the quests to give them the two legendaries) its a easy thing for even "casuals". The only area that I think it "failed" was if you fell behind as a crafter you were pretty much screwed. I wish that the scrapper would also give back maybe half the base mats needed to craft the item piece.

  6. #106
    The skillups were horrible, total fail imo. Ofc it's gonna be better now when it's too late to matter.

    The memory system was sort of neat, but the rest of it sucked IMO.

  7. #107
    If the intent was to make professions great again, then it failed.

    If the intent was as this expansion's replacement for customizable talent trees...it's probably the best of the 3 they've implemented (i prefered Legion, but i liked the dailies ans didnt raid/m+ so didnt mind the random order you got leggos), but the fact they seem to be ditching it and just revitalizing talents in DF speaks for itself.

    If the intent was to create a new reward to support content...Torghast always seemed full of players, and people complaining about it on the official forums (meaning people were doing it).

  8. #108
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,846
    Personally as a crafter I hated having dozens of low tier legendary material that weren’t selling with no easy way to recycle or npc them

  9. #109
    Lots of great ideas. I'm deciding what to start with!

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    i raid and i optimize my character, that doesnt make me a better player, it just gives me a bit more stats. i can perform on the same level with a lower ilevel lego too. but lets have a look:

    i took a random guy from raiderio and compared his dps with 291 and 262 lego. result: -159 dps or -1.4%. Wow, this will truly make a difference when killing mythic holandrus.

    guilds expect you to optimize your characters within whats reasonable - no guild tells u to go buy tokens. if u cant afford it, play with 262 lego, the raid would benefit a lot more if u focused on doing mechanics than the extra 159 dps you get on paper.
    ye but if all those 13-15 DPS had 262 lego that -DPS would be noticeable sometimes when making few timers/killing some adds

  11. #111
    Back in legion and BfA, I used my gold largely for fun stuff, and as a shortcut to some annoying grinds.
    In Shadowlands, I had a net gain of 0gold after legendary expenses. Of course, part of it is because I enjoy playing different alts, but the alt unfriendliness itself compounds the problem with the system.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Runicblood View Post
    I realize it was an attempt to step away from the RNG legendaries that we had before, but the way it turned out to be was more a cash grab for blizzard.

    Crafters profit is near 0 with all expensive secondary mats needed, while buyers have to be spending anywhere from 40-200k just to be relevant with their maxed leggo slots for one spec. If we start getting into off specs and alts, i think people are easily spending towards 1m gold.

    How do average players make that much money? They don't, they buy tokens.

    I'm already spending 15 euros a month to play, i dont really want to be spending another 20 euros to equip my must-have gear.

    inb4, yeah have fun grinding out that gold with dailies. Nobody got time for that.
    Legendary items have been failed ever since MoP. Legendary items as default item rewards cheapened their value, as well as the raid experience overall. Having powerful items a guild works towards collectively is a powerful tool for engagement and participation. Having such a powerful item should carry weight and prestige of your team efforts.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by cozzri View Post
    Legendary items have been failed ever since MoP. Legendary items as default item rewards cheapened their value, as well as the raid experience overall. Having powerful items a guild works towards collectively is a powerful tool for engagement and participation. Having such a powerful item should carry weight and prestige of your team efforts.
    I would argue legendary items are failstates for the game to start with. They either become mandatory if easy to get or utterly break raid design and need to be accounted for and balanced around with a ton of conditions like the hunter bow in sl.

    I could see them maybe tied to a personal challenge like the mage tower and act as a soft gating mechanic maybe?

    Overall terrible design.

  14. #114
    Yes. I agree 10000000%

    Sick of all "borrowed power" systems we had for past 3 expansions.

    That was THE ONLY "no-buy" requirement for 10.0 to me tbh. And I can't even describe how happy I am with new talent tree and 0 borrowed power! FINALLY!

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Runicblood View Post
    I realize it was an attempt to step away from the RNG legendaries that we had before, but the way it turned out to be was more a cash grab for blizzard.

    Crafters profit is near 0 with all expensive secondary mats needed, while buyers have to be spending anywhere from 40-200k just to be relevant with their maxed leggo slots for one spec. If we start getting into off specs and alts, i think people are easily spending towards 1m gold.

    How do average players make that much money? They don't, they buy tokens.

    I'm already spending 15 euros a month to play, i dont really want to be spending another 20 euros to equip my must-have gear.

    inb4, yeah have fun grinding out that gold with dailies. Nobody got time for that.
    The 291 legos costs are now 20-40k (you also did not mention that you could buy lower tier legos too). Of course early on they were expensive, but what the hell did you expect?

    And of course crafters will always make a profit when selling these items, but especially if they farm the ressources themselves (which you totally failed to mention).
    And if you are a crafter yourself and if you farm the mats, then you can craft that item for free.

    All in all, I have no fucking idea what you're talking about. You come off as super lazy, but also entitled to having the best available loot in the game.

    In general, i think that crafted legendaries is by far the best legendary system we've had so far, but it is not perfect. The early time-gated torghast grinds were the only big flaw in my opinion and I hope they will do things differently in the future.

    It's absolutely a lot better than legion's legendary system and especially so it is a lot better than what we had before with legendaries either being dropped by pure RNG or having to do a massive grind for what is essentially a must-have item. The SL legendaries are also really fun to use and swap around, at least on some classes there is some variety and options, especially in PVP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    Yes. I agree 10000000%

    Sick of all "borrowed power" systems we had for past 3 expansions.

    That was THE ONLY "no-buy" requirement for 10.0 to me tbh. And I can't even describe how happy I am with new talent tree and 0 borrowed power! FINALLY!
    What are you even talking about? According to your definition of borrowed power, it has been a major part of WoW since vanilla, because we absolutely had tier sets, crafted gear etc. as a system. And they are doubling down on this in Dragonflight.

    I guess you won't be buying the new expansion after all?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teekey View Post
    Legitimately the worst aspect of the entire expansion for me. I legitimately hate it.

    I'm honestly shocked that Blizzard is moving away from this model though because I have no doubt that they sold a shit ton of WoW tokens due to it. So have to give them a little credit for that.
    They are not moving away from it, the new crafting system suggests otherwise. The only thing they have said they won't be doing this time around is an artifact-like system, but no word on legendaries.
    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2022-04-26 at 03:00 AM.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    It is patently impossible for the "average player" to acquire gold via tokens. The way the system works in practice is that a small portion of the portion spends cash to buy tokens while another small portion of the playerbase sells their gold to acquire those tokens.



    Making 40-200K gold is not hard if you're just playing the game a few hours a week. Callings take a few minutes to complete for 2K, there is the weekly Anima quest which just happens, there is the mission table that can supply easily 1K per day for literally 2 minutes of effort.

    There is absolutely zero need for any kind of "grind". Just play the game for 15-20 mins each day (or an hour every 3rd day) and you're golden - easily to the tune of 25K per week. That is well over 1M in a year, and way more than enough to cover the paltry amount you "need" as an "average player". And honestly, if you aren't prepared to put in that much effort, then having a cash option to acquire that gold should be seen as a blessing.
    Now add food and potions and flasks for when doing raid and mythic+.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Runicblood View Post
    I realize it was an attempt to step away from the RNG legendaries that we had before, but the way it turned out to be was more a cash grab for blizzard.

    Crafters profit is near 0 with all expensive secondary mats needed, while buyers have to be spending anywhere from 40-200k just to be relevant with their maxed leggo slots for one spec. If we start getting into off specs and alts, i think people are easily spending towards 1m gold.

    How do average players make that much money? They don't, they buy tokens.

    I'm already spending 15 euros a month to play, i dont really want to be spending another 20 euros to equip my must-have gear.

    inb4, yeah have fun grinding out that gold with dailies. Nobody got time for that.
    failed ?
    for whom ?

    for Blizz?
    nah. i assume it was a huge success for them, by token selling. since they earn free 7 bugs for every token ever passing the AH, i assume they are happy with them.

    for players?
    ofc

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    There is a very, very large discrepency between your statement and your argument here bro :P

    I play for around 8-10 hours a week atm and i'm making around 2-4k. I'm not about to play more to grind. I have a gold supluss atm but taking 200k out of my budget for every legendary is not feasable. And no, i'm not going to use a fucking 190 legendary.
    Posts like yours just prove that the average user on MMOC is not even playing this game as it seems. These legendaries may have cost 200k in the first week or two when they became available. Now they cost 20-40k on average for the best 291 version.

    And of course you just pretend that there is no middle ground between a 190 and a 291 legendary and that it is absolutely necessary for your normal raiding and +3 keys to have the best legendary.
    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2022-04-26 at 03:15 AM.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post


    What are you even talking about? According to your definition of borrowed power, it has been a major part of WoW since vanilla, because we absolutely had tier sets, crafted gear etc. as a system. And they are doubling down on this in Dragonflight.

    I guess you won't be buying the new expansion after all?

    We used to obtain tier sets by playing the content it self. There was 0 grind outside the raid/arena/bg.

    Now you have to do EVERYTHING ELSE (torghast, renown, huuuuuge gold sink, whole quest chains, azerite, visions, essences, artifact power, azerite power, rng slot machine legendary items....) JUST TO BE ABLE TO PLAY your character and/or have all abilities. Because class designers had all borrowed power systems, upon systems, upon systems.... when they designed certain specs and their rotations.

    And obviously- players ARE UNHAPPY with such philosophy. And THANKS GOD they turned their back on it.

    Hooooraaay to 10.0!

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    The best legendary system were the ones that required questlines to obtain.
    I swear I remember that threads about people whining about this system of legendaries had 10x more pages than those of the SL legendary system.

    Back in MoP and WoD, it was a requirement for some guilds, but especially for almost all pugs to have the cloak/ring, which was a major pain in the ass to acquire, especially alts. Usually, whenever I was raiding, the only person who did not have the legendary was the RL.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    We used to obtain tier sets by playing the content it self. There was 0 grind outside the raid/arena/bg.

    Now you have to do EVERYTHING ELSE (torghast, renown, huuuuuge gold sink, whole quest chains, azerite, visions, essences, artifact power, azerite power, rng slot machine legendary items....) JUST TO BE ABLE TO PLAY your character and/or have all abilities. Because class designers had all borrowed power systems, upon systems, upon systems.... when they designed certain specs and their rotations.
    We are talking about crafted legendaries here...

    And obviously- players ARE UNHAPPY with such philosophy. And THANKS GOD they turned their back on it.

    Hooooraaay to 10.0!
    Again: I don't know where you are reading this, but they are NOT removing this system. It seems they are doubling down on crafting gear.

    Please don't reply to people if you didn't even read what they wrote or don't even know what the thread is about, WTF.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •