Can we agree that crafted legendaries failed?

[Accendor]

You dont really need highest tier legos on your alts right? Even on your main, unless you are in some top 50 guild, the difference in ilevel on the legendary wont make much a difference on your performance. And majority of like top 300 guilds even pay for their raiders legos, so that elevates the cost.

You have to move away from the notion that a higher ilevel lego makes you a better player, when its most likely other things holding you back.

So imo the only failure of the crafted lego system is that you cant equip any 2 legos and the slots limitation. Remove those 2 things and the system wouldve been even better.

Especially if you are not a top player, higher itemlevel legendaries are important. The lower your skill, the more important your gear becomes, because it allowed you skip or fail mechanics. You might not be able to utilize the gear as well as a high skill player, but you still profit more from it. The high skill player will go through the content half naked, as long it is not too absurd.

[Raelbo]

Especially if you are not a top player, higher itemlevel legendaries are important. The lower your skill, the more important your gear becomes, because it allowed you skip or fail mechanics.

You're conflating importance (need) and convenience (want).

If you're a low skill player wanting to participate in high end content, the last thing you actually need is to rely on gear as crutch. Far more important is working at improving your skill.

[Nyel]

I think crafted legendaries was the best way to introduce them and if we keep them, it should be exactly that way - with twists and improvements, but it was better than legendary drops.

[Accendor]

You're conflating importance (need) and convenience (want).

If you're a low skill player wanting to participate in high end content, the last thing you actually need is to rely on gear as crutch. Far more important is working at improving your skill.

The same goes for base level legendaries tho. You do not need them at all, but everything becomes much easier once you got one.

[m4xc4v413r4]

I've done this simple arithmetic for so many people, I'll do it for you too my dude. How to farm gold without farming gold in SL.

1) Daily Callings. Each one of these dailies takes literally 15 minutes to complete, since we can fly in all 4 original SL zones, and it is 9.0 content which means the mobs you gotta kill have between 8k-12k HP. These award, minimum, 2k gold. You get 7 of these per week. 7x 15 minutes = 1h45 mins per week for 14k gold per week.

2) Mission Table. The mission table in SL is the most balanced we've had ever since it was introduced in the garisson in WOD. You spend 5 minutes when you log in and 5 minutes when you log off, to set it up. That's 1h10 minutes per week. The mission table awards anywhere between 1-3k gold per day, depending on which missions you've set. Let's take the midpoint of 1k and 3k which is 2k per day. That's another 14k per week.

3) ANYTHING you gather while doing your daily callings and harvesting your mission table goes on the AH. That's another 5 minutes per day before you log off every night. Pop to your Capital, open your Reagent bag (yes you can set your bags for different purposes in the default blizz UI nowadays), go to the AH and start right clicking every single thing you have gathered/harvested in your daily adventures. This income can vary, so let's low-ball it at 1k/day for 5 mins per day meaning we're at 7k/week for 5x7 = 35 mins a week.

In total we have:

14k + 14k + 7k gold per week = 35k gold per week, for

1h45 + 1h10 + 35 mins = 3h30 of effort per week.

You heard that right folks. Dalinos' Shadowlands gold-farming method without farming gold. 35,000 gold per week for a time investment of three and a half hours a week. 3h30 mins is 210 minutes / 7 days is...you guessed it. Half an hour a day. For half a fucking hour per day you can have 35,000 gold per week.

And the best part? You don't even do all this shit for the gold. The gold is a bonus. You do it for Reputation, you do it for Anima for cosmetics, you do it for mounts, you do it for paragon chests that reward their own mounts, you do it for Renown (back in 9.0 and 9.1), you do it for achievements, you do it for 50 different reasons OTHER than farming gold. You just...get the gold passively. 1 Daily Calling, if you're lucky with which one it is, can be not a double-dip, not a triple-dip, not even a quadriple-dip, but a fuckin grand QUINTIPLE-dip in the rewards you are getting. Rep-Anima-Mounts-Transmog-Gold. From 1 damn activity. With Warmode On of course, cause we want that juicy +25% resources when we farm.

Now, if you weren't wasting your time on MMO-Champion complaining about legendaries, and you used your 30 minutes playing the game we all love, you would have no money issues in SL.

Just to add to your #1, if you do them every 3 days, many times you can do 2 or even the 3 in a single effort because they'll share the zone and will complete with barely any extra time vs doing just one of them. And another thing for people that say "oh but I only go in game to do M+", many callings complete even just doing M+, usually the ones for a World Boss also complete for doing an M+ from that zone for example.
People just like to make any excuses possible to complain.
Also anything from the table missions can be done on your phone. And people spend a lot of time just looking at social media on their phone so if that's their excuse maybe they should just admit that they don't make gold because they don't want to make it, and not because they don't have time or whatever their dumb excuse is.

[GreenJesus]

Good point. You can arguably make gold even faster by making and selling these on the AH. There really is zero reason that anyone should ever feel compelled to buy gold via tokens unless you just simply don't want to spend any time doing stuff outside of raids/M+.

And again not judging anyone. If you feel you'd rather spend a few $$ to escape having to do some very doable chores in game, more power to you. My objection is entirely to the hypothesis that Blizzard is in any way whatsoever responsible for making us dependent on tokens for gold. That is just absurd.

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What gets me is this dichotomy that you need to have the best gear, but then complain about the very minimal amount of effort required to acquire the gold necessary to obtain it, all the while getting upset about the fact that you're even allowed to have your proverbial cake and eat it if you'd prefer to spend a small amount of cash.

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Uh how so?

Making 3K per day as I described is not hard. It really is minimal effort and requires very little time investment. And given the long time frames you're afforded in which to save up gold between needing to upgrade your legendaries, 3K per day will easily get you way more gold than you actually need.



Of course it's feasible. You just don't want to. Which is perfectly fine - no one is forcing you to play this game.

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Not one single person in this thread has had an issue with you "not wanting to drop real money on an item". We're simply perplexed by the absurdity of this notion you seem to hold that it's necessary.

Making potions is spending more time not doing pvp or mythic+. Time is money friend. And if you raid 3 times a week for 3 hours, that's basically 3 days/7 gone. I would get home from work at 5:45, start raid at 6, and then end at 9, go eat some dinner and be back at my computer at 10 and then just chill and watch anime. The other days I'd want to do pvp or arena. When am I supposed to farm potions?

[8bithamster]

Wow, so many people in this topic blaming the game for their lack of self control. How do you run out of cash..

[Neuroticaine]

It was a vast improvement over the Legion system. Are their things that could have been handled? Sure. The biggest failure of the system was simply too many worthless legendaries. Not even situationally viable in niche scenarios - straight up worthless.

[Raelbo]

Making potions is spending more time not doing pvp or mythic+. Time is money friend. And if you raid 3 times a week for 3 hours, that's basically 3 days/7 gone. I would get home from work at 5:45, start raid at 6, and then end at 9, go eat some dinner and be back at my computer at 10 and then just chill and watch anime. The other days I'd want to do pvp or arena. When am I supposed to farm potions?

The point I was making simply was that it is not hard/difficult or overly time consuming to make the amount of gold and/or farm the stuff you need to play this game. All you've argued is that you don't want to spend any time or effort on it.

As I see it, people like you should be thankful for the existence of tokens and that you have that as an option, instead, like the OP crying that you're forced to use to it

[Iain]

Legendaries are merely a subset of the borrowed power system. There isn't much else Blizzard can do with them. It's not that they're out of ideas, it's just a mathematical reality. You can't have unique and powerful items be both accessible, relevant and independent of the rest of the balance system.

[Celement]

The point I was making simply was that it is not hard/difficult or overly time consuming to make the amount of gold and/or farm the stuff you need to play this game. All you've argued is that you don't want to spend any time or effort on it.

As I see it, people like you should be thankful for the existence of tokens and that you have that as an option, instead, like the OP crying that you're forced to use to it

I find it weird people defend dull boring and grindy systems from the mindset it can be done...

The question isn't is it possible. It is if it offers anything positive.

[Raelbo]

I find it weird people defend dull boring and grindy systems from the mindset it can be done...

That's a strawman argument and therefore invalid.

I am not trying to "defend dull boring and grindy systems". I am simply countering the ridiculous assertion that we have no choice but to resort to tokens. Along the way I am also correcting the exaggerated claims of how hard/difficult it is to acquire these things.

The question isn't is it possible. It is if it offers anything positive.

Surely this is a subjective question though? A lot of people in this game enjoy working towards long term goals in what you call a "grindy" fashion. It's been a part of WoW since its inception and given the popularity of Classic, in which this aspect of the game is even more pronounced, there is plenty of backing to the idea that people who play WoW tend to enjoy that playstyle.

[Alithia]

What I don't like is the name. For me legendaries are Thunderfury, Atiesh, Glaives of Azzinoth, and so on. Give them a new color, pimk maybe, and call them Runecrafted item or something like that, but not legendary.

[Zantera]

What I don't like is the name. For me legendaries are Thunderfury, Atiesh, Glaives of Azzinoth, and so on. Give them a new color, pimk maybe, and call them Runecrafted item or something like that, but not legendary.

I kinda agree and would say this goes for Legion legendaries as well. I think I prefer the idea of legendaries being something so special that you'll remember the name of it years down the line even if you didn't wear it yourself. I guess some Legion legendaries you still remember by name but the pool has really been diluted by adding so many items that are legendaries.

[Relapses]

They would've been perfectly fine if they weren't so fucking expensive.

[Morthos]

It was an interesting idea but I hated how many crafts you had to do to progress to the next rank of making the base mats, then rinse and repeat for the rank after that as well, no thanks blizz! It ended up being too much grunt work to max your own professions and too many legendaries available in the end (even if in the end only 1-2 were viable and rest were so much niche or never use anyway). If we're gonna have legendaries I'd prefer the older methods of questlines with some gathering needed with a final reward instead of of the Shadowlands method.

Here's hoping whatever the options are in Dragonflight are more streamlined and quest based and not a repeat of this.

[Celement]

That's a strawman argument and therefore invalid.

I am not trying to "defend dull boring and grindy systems". I am simply countering the ridiculous assertion that we have no choice but to resort to tokens. Along the way I am also correcting the exaggerated claims of how hard/difficult it is to acquire these things.



Surely this is a subjective question though? A lot of people in this game enjoy working towards long term goals in what you call a "grindy" fashion. It's been a part of WoW since its inception and given the popularity of Classic, in which this aspect of the game is even more pronounced, there is plenty of backing to the idea that people who play WoW tend to enjoy that playstyle.

What backing is that..?

Is it the same backing as "muh meaningful choices" that saw most specs aligning with massive majorities all being the same covenant/soulbinds?

It isnt meaningful progression it's in most cases a passive that makes your class function.

Hell only a minority of leggos did as much as offer slight variances to rotations. I can only recall hunters tar trap and fire mages binding of the sun king off the top of my head.

[Trenbolone]

The only flaw and easy fix/win would be some sort of catch-up system for crafting them.

They were great for people who went after them hard from day one.

They sucked for everybody else.

[VinceVega]

I liked Legion way more in that regard. You actually felt happy when you got one. I didn't get my bis until 1 week before it got nerfed but still (moonkin).

But still. The moment you got one... the feeling was really good.

[enigma77]

Yes the legendary system absolutely failed. Mandatory gear should not cost gold. Gold sinks should be optional.

You're gonna love the next expansion.