1. #1981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Yeah I was in the same boat. I thought no way he could have gotten this far for this long with all he has made and nobody would have said anything let alone screamed it from the mountain top.

    But holy fuck was I wrong. I didn’t want because I came to unlike him to color my view of him. I mean most people fudge a little or slight the truth a little to advocate for his companies.

    But as I said holy fucking shit I had no idea.

    I still didn’t want to believe he was a complete fucking fraud. But now I’m not sure anything is true about the guys accomplishments besides being the world’s richest man.
    At least an apparent partial fraud. But yeah, holy shit.

    I have been down on him for the past couple of years, shortly after the Diving incident had me rethinking my perspective on him overall, not just he success at SpaceX. But this would definitely shed some new light.

  2. #1982
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This story's still breaking; Capitol Hunters just published yesterday. But the only source cited for his degrees on his Wikipedia page are Musk himself or his biographer; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#Education

    Which, y'know, not exactly proof.
    In the CapitolHunters link is vid of him seemingly lying or being shady about his degree and immigration status.

    https://twitter.com/capitolhunters/s...lxxo8ZeP70c0CQ
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  3. #1983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This story's still breaking; Capitol Hunters just published yesterday. But the only source cited for his degrees on his Wikipedia page are Musk himself or his biographer; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#Education

    Which, y'know, not exactly proof.
    So this is just breaking now, interesting. Looks like, if all true, the emperor's clothes are truly off.

    Totally agree re proof, I just figured that something so simple wouldn't need to be checked. Apparently I was not alone.

    (still love that this is breaking on Twitter as well)

  4. #1984
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    So this is just breaking now, interesting. Looks like, if all true, the emperor's clothes are truly off.

    Totally agree re proof, I just figured that something so simple wouldn't need to be checked. Apparently I was not alone.

    (still love that this is breaking on Twitter as well)
    That's how people get away with shit like this for so long. Who'd lie about getting a degree? Only someone utterly shameless. You don't ever call the school to check. You just assume they're not lying. It's more difficult when you get to professional degrees like engineering, because then you run into professional associations, and they absolutely will check your credentials, and sue your ass if you make claims you can't justify. Which is why Musk's never made any claims of being a certified engineer, he's stuck to safer lies like physics degrees.


  5. #1985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You should probably strongly review your positions on such things, given that Musk is in no way a licensed engineer in any field, and doesn't have any STEM degrees whatsoever to his name. He's claimed plenty, and pretty much all of that's been a lie; https://archive.ph/gzGpF
    https://twitter.com/capitolhunters/s...07541932474368

    Archive link first because I won't be shocked to see Elon nuke this from Twitter, but it's their own archive set up for exactly that purpose, so it's the same info from the same people in both cases.
    So, thinking about this objectively, it would be interesting to see the 1995 The Daily Pennsylvanian, graduation issue, and see if Musk's name isn't there. Does that make sense?

  6. #1986
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    At least an apparent partial fraud. But yeah, holy shit.

    I have been down on him for the past couple of years, shortly after the Diving incident had me rethinking my perspective on him overall, not just he success at SpaceX. But this would definitely shed some new light.
    Lol yeah I defended it and dismissed it at maybe his frustration at legitimately trying to help and giving a really vicious opinion.

    But up til now yeah. I had to eat crow on this. Even if I ignored everything until now. If what said about what he did to employees to tried to stick it out is true.

    Yeah I don’t know anything about this guy.
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  7. #1987
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    So, thinking about this objectively, it would be interesting to see the 1995 The Daily Pennsylvanian, graduation issue, and see if Musk's name isn't there. Does that make sense?
    I mean, you can skip down to the lawsuits where his credentials were challenged and UPenn was subpoenaed, and he only had two degree credentials from 1997, one in Economics and the other blank, without an actual department or degree listed. Wharton openly claims Musk as a graduate (see that economics degree), the Penn physics department never has.


  8. #1988
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I mean, you can skip down to the lawsuits where his credentials were challenged and UPenn was subpoenaed, and he only had two degree credentials from 1997, one in Economics and the other blank, without an actual department or degree listed. Wharton openly claims Musk as a graduate (see that economics degree), the Penn physics department never has.
    Something's off with this Capital Hunter's thing. Read this PDF, where it confirms he was admitted to Stanford's Graduate Material Science program. The PDF is from Capital Hunters.

    To be clear, something is definitely off overall re Musk. I'd like to see precisely what it is, though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I wonder how much Musk has donated to Wharton and UPenn...wonder if that's why they are reluctant to let people know he does or does not have a physics degree from them.
    Last edited by cubby; 2022-11-18 at 11:40 PM.

  9. #1989
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Something's off with this Capital Hunter's thing. Read this PDF, where it confirms he was admitted to Stanford's Graduate Material Science program. The PDF is from Capital Hunters.

    To be clear, something is definitely off overall re Musk. I'd like to see precisely what it is, though.
    He was offered tentative admission, it looks like. That's usually in a "once you graduate and we can confirm, we can admit you". He didn't enroll, by his own admission, so he wasn't admitted, he was offered admission, and he doesn't say what requirements he may have still had. Plenty of people apply for grad school and get tentative acceptance pending graduation from their undergrad program, because you need to be applying for those grad programs way before graduation. That's kind of just how it goes, generally.


  10. #1990
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    Musk should have stayed in the realm of electric cars and rocket ships. Even if he pretends this was all planned, everyone will still think he's awful.
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  11. #1991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    He was offered tentative admission, it looks like. That's usually in a "once you graduate and we can confirm, we can admit you". He didn't enroll, by his own admission, so he wasn't admitted, he was offered admission, and he doesn't say what requirements he may have still had. Plenty of people apply for grad school and get tentative acceptance pending graduation from their undergrad program, because you need to be applying for those grad programs way before graduation. That's kind of just how it goes, generally.
    Can you just apply for a top-field STEM graduate program at Stanford and not have to provide any information or tests or classwork or anything to gain tentative admission?

    Just a cursory glance tells me he had to submit something that indicated he was studying STEM as an undergraduate:
    Required Application Documents
    Online Application
    Application fee
    Statement of Purpose
    PhD Supplementary Information form (within application)
    Resume/CV
    3 Letters of Recommendation
    Unofficial transcripts from all colleges and/or universities attended for more than one year
    Official TOEFL scores, if applicable
    The GRE will not be accepted for applications received during the period September 2021-June 2022. We ask that you do not submit or reference GRE scores in your application, as they will not be considered. (Updated May 2021)


    Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on this, but I would like to see the documents backing up these claims by Capital Hunters. Did you say that part of the document they linked were the Economics degree from Wharton and then basically a blank degree from UPenn?

  12. #1992
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Can you just apply for a top-field STEM graduate program at Stanford and not have to provide any information or tests or classwork or anything to gain tentative admission?

    Just a cursory glance tells me he had to submit something that indicated he was studying STEM as an undergraduate:
    Required Application Documents
    Online Application
    Application fee
    Statement of Purpose
    PhD Supplementary Information form (within application)
    Resume/CV
    3 Letters of Recommendation
    Unofficial transcripts from all colleges and/or universities attended for more than one year
    Official TOEFL scores, if applicable
    The GRE will not be accepted for applications received during the period September 2021-June 2022. We ask that you do not submit or reference GRE scores in your application, as they will not be considered. (Updated May 2021)


    Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on this, but I would like to see the documents backing up these claims by Capital Hunters. Did you say that part of the document they linked were the Economics degree from Wharton and then basically a blank degree from UPenn?
    Yeah, they've got images of the degrees, because that's all UPenn could give the plaintiff when subpoenaed in that first lawsuit that challenged his credentials. Because it was product of that subpoena, this all became public record, if anyone bothered to look.

    See that bit of "in the process of completing a degree in X" in the Stanford application? That's pretty standard and they take you at your word generally because lying gets you nowhere, because you eventually have to prove you graduated before you can enroll in the grad program. If you lie and say "I'm definitely super sure gonna be graduated by then" and then you're not, your admissions will be revoked when you fail to produce the documentation required.

    Producing that degree should be dead simple. I still haven't mounted my B. Ed.; it's framed but sitting in a corner since I've been mid-redecorating for like two years now because my ADHD is a fickle bastard, but my B.A is up on the wall, and that I have them is super easy to confirm, because I can just present them directly. So it's sure weird that apparently nobody's ever seen an actual physics degree for Musk. Even when his supposed alma mater's been subpoenaed for it.
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-11-18 at 11:59 PM.


  13. #1993
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yeah, they've got images of the degrees, because that's all UPenn could give the plaintiff when subpoenaed in that first lawsuit that challenged his credentials. Because it was product of that subpoena, this all became public record, if anyone bothered to look.

    See that bit of "in the process of completing a degree in X" in the Stanford application? That's pretty standard and they take you at your word generally because lying gets you nowhere, because you eventually have to prove you graduated before you can enroll in the grad program. If you lie and say "I'm definitely super sure gonna be graduated by then" and then you're not, your admissions will be revoked.
    I saw that, and that's exactly what I was thinking, how it would play out if he lied about it. But they also want transcripts. Which would include STEM classes. And he was admitted to Stanford, possibly tentatively based on the wording/timing.

    I didn't see the pics of the degrees (or lack thereof) my first time through. I'm going to go back and scour a bit.

  14. #1994
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I saw that, and that's exactly what I was thinking, how it would play out if he lied about it. But they also want transcripts. Which would include STEM classes. And he was admitted to Stanford, possibly tentatively based on the wording/timing.

    I didn't see the pics of the degrees (or lack thereof) my first time through. I'm going to go back and scour a bit.
    Submission of transcripts is often pro forma. I'm not sure mine were even looked at when I applied to grad school, and if they were me failing out my first year with a 0.8 GPA didn't stop me getting into grad school. A solid application and research proposal does way more for your application than transcripts. And donations are probably similarly enticing. That's probably why I got in; my application had my MA thesis proposal as a rough first draft included (it was fine, but was inevitably gonna get refined once I was in). I know plenty of my colleagues still didn't have that first draft for a thesis proposal a year and a half into the program.

    You're gonna need to get the documents in before you enroll, but Musk never enrolled, so the status of his documents really can't be claimed, because they aren't required for initial admission, but prior to enrollment as a verification more than anything.


  15. #1995
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    He was offered tentative admission, it looks like. That's usually in a "once you graduate and we can confirm, we can admit you". He didn't enroll, by his own admission, so he wasn't admitted, he was offered admission, and he doesn't say what requirements he may have still had. Plenty of people apply for grad school and get tentative acceptance pending graduation from their undergrad program, because you need to be applying for those grad programs way before graduation. That's kind of just how it goes, generally.
    Seems like a flaw here and overall.

    In short the charge here Musk was given a bogus degree in something he was not pursuing. I guess somewhat moot since Elon dropped out of Stanford in 2 days.

    In short he was not the image of the alpha ceo who just conquers the world through intelligence and working hard.
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  16. #1996
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    Actually, never mind. I was quoting incorrectly. My quote about the admissions was from a biographer. So he was NOT admitted to Stanford, he was just claiming to have been in his biography. Here is the quote from the Capital Hunters:
    Notes discrepancy -
    Ashlee Vance’s 2015 biography of Musk cites a June 22, 2009 letter from Judith Haccou (see 2009 entry).
    “As per special request from my colleagues in the School of Engineering, I have searched Stanford’s admission data base and acknowledge that you applied and were admitted to the graduate program in Material Science Engineering in 1995. Since you did not enroll, Stanford is not able to issue you an official certification document.”

    Stanford’s program is called “Materials Science and Engineering” : https://mse.stanford.edu/
    Judith Haccou would not make that mistake: joined Stanford in 1979, had been there 29 years in 2008
    https://news.stanford.edu/report/202...sions-died-69/
    And the googledocs link (from Captial Hunters)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Submission of transcripts is often pro forma. I'm not sure mine were even looked at when I applied to grad school, and if they were me failing out my first year with a 0.8 GPA didn't stop me getting into grad school. A solid application and research proposal does way more for your application than transcripts. And donations are probably similarly enticing. That's probably why I got in; my application had my MA thesis proposal as a rough first draft included (it was fine, but was inevitably gonna get refined once I was in). I know plenty of my colleagues still didn't have that first draft for a thesis proposal a year and a half into the program.

    You're gonna need to get the documents in before you enroll, but Musk never enrolled, so the status of his documents really can't be claimed, because they aren't required for initial admission, but prior to enrollment as a verification more than anything.
    Ah, ok - in other words everything he claimed were things that can't really be confirmed, which is precisely what a narcacistic liar would do when claiming things he did not, which is what we have here apparently.

  17. #1997
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    Be interesting to see how some of these ardent "Free Speech" sorts take to Musk's post about "Freedom of Speech, not Freedom of Reach". Because really, for most of these people, it's actually Freedom of Reach they care about. They're free to (and do) spew their shit across the internet - on alternative sites or their own blog site if they wish - what they lost (and what they're actually taking issue with, whether they'd admit it) is losing the power of Twitter to build and maintain their brand.

    Plus saying freedom of speech not freedom of reach is easy for bots and troll accounts, but what happens to public figures? Would some nutty right winger (pick your poison - Alex Jones, Trump, basically any Trump backed GOP member of Gov) be given freedom of reach, or would they be effectively shadow banned?

    In any case, it doesn't matter how much of a genius Musk is (which apparently is all made up anyway), any social media platform that is financially motivated is fundamentally at odds with freedom of speech.

  18. #1998
    Elon is an laughing stock, but t whole thing's kind of got me thinking that Twitter seems like product that was already developed, deployed and is working just fine. How exactly did they need over 7500 workers for this company?

  19. #1999
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    Elon is an laughing stock, but t whole thing's kind of got me thinking that Twitter seems like product that was already developed, deployed and is working just fine. How exactly did they need over 7500 workers for this company?
    Because nothing has broken yet (which isn't even true, as a lot of small things keep breaking), and a lot of employees are working on new projects/services that are unreleased.

  20. #2000
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I am going to show my age here, there's an old TV show called the pretender where the actor is a super genius who would just put on a uniform and have all the abilities to do the job. Elon would have to be that guy in real life to be able to do the job of a rocket engineer, mechanical engineer, architect, designer and god knows what else he has taken credit for.
    Kinda liked that show...

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