1. #2661
    If Elon musk was just a random schmuck posting on Twitter under a username and I managed to figure out his real name, address phone number job ect you could claim I was doxing even if everything I posted was public.

    But he's one of the richest most powerful people on the planet and actively involved in politics while controlling one of the largest communications outlet in human history. This much power has to come with a much lower expectation of privacy so it would hardy qualify as doxing to say what city his jet is in.

  2. #2662
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    So question: when journalists track Air Force One are they doxxing Biden?
    If they are continuously publicly stating its location with the intent of shaming or punishing someone on board, then technically yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Just like the publicly available flight data relating to Musks jet, eh?

    You've decided to just ignore that your own words prove you wrong, and double down on defending your stance? Such a shame that people can't accept when they're wrong.
    Way to ignore the actually important "consent" part. Though bolding that part was retarded of me, I admit and apologize. Doesn't change my point tho.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Tell us you're in a Cult, without actually saying "you're in a Cult" challenge 2022!
    You don't see the irony in saying that while you guys keep ignoring the textbook definition of doxxing, and everything else I've said about Musk in this thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canpinter View Post
    If Elon musk was just a random schmuck posting on Twitter under a username and I managed to figure out his real name, address phone number job ect you could claim I was doxing even if everything I posted was public.

    But he's one of the richest most powerful people on the planet and actively involved in politics while controlling one of the largest communications outlet in human history. This much power has to come with a much lower expectation of privacy so it would hardy qualify as doxing to say what city his jet is in.
    Then don't go crying if separate set of laws apply to rich people and poor people, when you yourself think it is okay.

  3. #2663
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I assume Biden consents to his Public Schedule being visible to us randos on the internet.
    And if you own a private plane, you're consenting to having its whereabouts publicly tracked via the FAA as all planes are.

    Phew, guess we can put this to bed behind us. If Elom doesn't want his private plane tracked, he can fly first class.

  4. #2664
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post

    Then don't go crying if separate set of laws apply to rich people and poor people, when you yourself think it is okay.
    First generally speaking doxing isnt actually illegal, just considered a dick move.

    Second why on earth wouldn't I be in favor of the rich and powerful being held to a higher standard of scrutiny and transparency?

  5. #2665
    Old God AntiFascistVoter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    If they are continuously publicly stating its location with the intent of shaming or punishing someone on board, then technically yes.



    Way to ignore the actually important "consent" part. Though bolding that part was retarded of me, I admit and apologize. Doesn't change my point tho.



    You don't see the irony in saying that while you guys keep ignoring the textbook definition of doxxing, and everything else I've said about Musk in this thread?



    Then don't go crying if separate set of laws apply to rich people and poor people, when you yourself think it is okay.
    The problem is, you and Elon on online too much for you're own good.

    Poasting here or twitter is not therapy.
    Government Affiliated Snark

  6. #2666
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    You are not arguing with me, you are arguing with literally every single goddamn source that comes up on the front page of google when I punch in "doxxing".
    "A lot of people are wrong like me" is not an argument that you're right.

    Here, I went through them in order without skipping any of the links:

    It doesn't matter how you accessed the information about the person, the act of doxxing someone refers to releasing that information, not collecting it.
    Even if I wanted to grant that, it's irrelevant, since all you're explaining is that "doxxing" doesn't automatically refer to anything negative or bad, and can be entirely innocuous.

    That's why I said it's a ridiculous framing of the word; those definitions include things like "reading someone's public Facebook" or "looking up their address in a phone book" as "doxxing". I read the "about the author" section in my favorite novel, and have thus "doxxed" the author!

    Reposting publicly-available information is not harming anyone. Under any circumstances. Even if you want to point to cases of organized harassment, the harm comes from organizing the harassment, not the availability of public information.

    Your entire argument is that "doxxing" can be entirely innocent and not harmful or negatively impactful on the subject being doxxed. Okay? Cool beans. Why are we hand-wringing about Elon's jet again?


  7. #2667
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I assume Biden consents to his Public Schedule being visible to us randos on the internet.
    And Elon consents to his jet being tracked. He just doesn't like that publicly available information is...publicly available...
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2022-12-19 at 07:21 PM.
    On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

    - H. L. Mencken

  8. #2668
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    "A lot of people are wrong like me" is not an argument that you're right.
    Are you really trying to argue that definitions don't matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Even if I wanted to grant that, it's irrelevant, since all you're explaining is that "doxxing" doesn't automatically refer to anything negative or bad, and can be entirely innocuous.

    That's why I said it's a ridiculous framing of the word; those definitions include things like "reading someone's public Facebook" or "looking up their address in a phone book" as "doxxing". I read the "about the author" section in my favorite novel, and have thus "doxxed" the author!
    No. In pretty much all of my posts about this I have argued that intention behind the act is a major component in determining whether or not it fits the description of doxxing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Reposting publicly-available information is not harming anyone. Under any circumstances.
    Sooooo how about my hypothetical of compiling and publicly releasing instructions on how to make a bomb? I know this is only tangentially related, but still.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Even if you want to point to cases of organized harassment, the harm comes from organizing the harassment, not the availability of public information.
    I'm not trying to make a point about organized harassment, even if doxxing is closely related to it.

    The point I'm trying to make is that we can't have a separate sets of rules for how rich and poor people should be treated, because that is a two way street and us common folk will get fucked in the ass in the end if we normalize this kind of behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Your entire argument is that "doxxing" can be entirely innocent and not harmful or negatively impactful on the subject being doxxed. Okay? Cool beans. Why are we hand-wringing about Elon's jet again?
    You're still trying to argue that gathering or looking up information about a person is the functional and defining part of doxxing when it is not.

  9. #2669
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    The point I'm trying to make is that we can't have a separate sets of rules for how rich and poor people should be treated, because that is a two way street and us common folk will get fucked in the ass in the end if we normalize this kind of behavior.
    Fucking lol.

  10. #2670
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    The point I'm trying to make is that we can't have a separate sets of rules for how rich and poor people should be treated, because that is a two way street and us common folk will get fucked in the ass in the end if we normalize this kind of behavior.
    I really hate to break it to you, but we already do. They've always existed, as a matter of fact.

    Consequently, I have zero problems playing by the rules that the rich and powerful have set out for themselves.

    Because they're never going to notice that I'm fighting on their behalf on the internet and leave me a nice holiday bonus/tip.

  11. #2671
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Ranty McRantface
    Again, just like Biden's Public schedule...it's publicly available information. You're trying to carve out a Jet-sized exception for Elon.

    Now, if you want to argue that information shouldn't be publicly available...you can try and make that case. But, as of right now, it is publicly available information and the user simply posting that information is something that a self-proclaimed "free speech absolutist" should be fine with. In fact, just last month...he said he was fine with it.

    On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

    - H. L. Mencken

  12. #2672
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Are you really trying to argue that definitions don't matter?
    I am, in fact, arguing that they do, and that defining a term like "doxxing" that broadly renders it meaningless and removes any negative connotations the word might otherwise have carried. And I have a problem with that.

    It's exactly like vegas trying to define "murder" as including "eating meat". You can define it that way, but then "murdering a burger" isn't a negative in the first place and you just look fucking silly protesting it.

    No. In pretty much all of my posts about this I have argued that intention behind the act is a major component in determining whether or not it fits the description of doxxing.
    So you agree Elonjet was not "doxxing" anything?

    Sooooo how about my hypothetical of compiling and publicly releasing instructions on how to make a bomb? I know this is only tangentially related, but still.
    That would be information that is, itself, illegal to communicate. If publicly-available info were illegal, it wouldn't be being made public. If you can post it to Facebook yourself, others can reference it. You can't post that bomb recipe to Facebook, by comparison.

    I'm not trying to make a point about organized harassment, even if doxxing is closely related to it.

    The point I'm trying to make is that we can't have a separate sets of rules for how rich and poor people should be treated, because that is a two way street and us common folk will get fucked in the ass in the end if we normalize this kind of behavior.
    I agree that there shouldn't be two sets of rules.

    You still haven't made an argument that Elon was "doxxed" or that anything the Elonjet account was doing was even ethically or morally shaky. The FAA was already publishing that information.

    You're still trying to argue that gathering or looking up information about a person is the functional and defining part of doxxing when it is not.
    Is it the re-broadcasting of already-broadcast information? Because if re-posting someone's Facebook info is a violation, it's the same violation the user committed in posting it to Facebook in the first place. I'm struggling to see any validity to there being a meaningful difference to be had between the two.

    Here; https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af

    That's the ADS-B Exhange's tracking map for Elon's jet. They track all aircraft via publicly available flight information. He's left Luton Airport in the UK and is currently coming in over Labrador (at time of writing; you can backtrack its history on the site and it's gonna get updated if you're reading this in a few hours). Can get his altitude and airspeed and all kinds of other info. Like is available for every commercial or private plane. Am I "doxxing"? Or is linking to a website with publicly-tracked information just frickin' normal activity?
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-12-19 at 08:10 PM.


  13. #2673
    Elon wasn't being doxxed with that app sharing public information. One of the dumbest arguments I've seen here tbh.

  14. #2674
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I assume Biden consents to his Public Schedule being visible to us randos on the internet.
    You know that the term "private plane" is just nomenclature for a plane that's operated independent of the commercial airline industry, right? It doesn't actually confer any privacy or anonymity to the passengers or pilot.

    Air traffic information is all recorded and available publicly, because that shit needs to be coordinated to ensure planes can land and don't collide with each other or obstacles. Damn near everything is logged and publicly available. Even AF1 flights are often reported on unless security is a concern.

    If you're flying in a fucking plane or helicopter, that information is out there, unless it's like a special military operation or the President is headed to a bunker because there's chatter about a terrorist attack.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    The point I'm trying to make is that we can't have a separate sets of rules for how rich and poor people should be treated, because that is a two way street and us common folk will get fucked in the ass in the end if we normalize this kind of behavior.
    We do have the same rules when it comes to publicly available flight information. If you charter a fucking private jet, people can access that information. Nevermind that common citizens aren't chartering private jets, but rather taking commercial flights where all the passenger logs and flight data are immediately available to anyone who wants to look at them, including foreign governments.

  15. #2675
    Banned Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I assume Biden consents to his Public Schedule being visible to us randos on the internet.
    It's almost like Musk consented to the same when he got a private plane........

  16. #2676
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I assume Biden consents to his Public Schedule being visible to us randos on the internet.
    The schedule of President of the United States is a matter of PUBLIC INTEREST. He literally does not have the legal right NOT TO CONSENT TO IT being public, unless it's a national security risk. Note again, it's not about his privacy or personal safety, constraints only apply when it's a matter of NATIONAL security.

    Elon's jet's whereabouts are a matter of public interest. YOU PERSONALLY seem to either not understand the very concept of public interest and how that supersedes to right to privacy or just chose to personally reject it.

  17. #2677
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Are you really trying to argue that definitions don't matter?
    If someone wanted to assassinate Elmo Muzk, the ElonJet account wouldn't matter. They could gather publicly available info and make the attempt regardless of the existence of that account. That's just reality. It's not doxxing. You're getting extremely bogged down in technicalities and definitions, and completely flying past colloquial usage and intent. Doxxing is very typically done when someone releases a host of a person's private information in order to inflict fear of real life retaliation, or in order to specifically get people to target them in real life. Doxxing in the modern usage is always about malicious intent, as well as harvesting and publishing private info that normally wouldn't be available to the public.

    As has already been said, anyone truly intent on assassinating Elmo would find that public info. And again, airports have some of the highest security of public facilities in the nation. Private jets nearly always deplane on the tarmac, which is not accessible by the general public. And nobody owns a personal fighter jet, which is what you'd need to kill Elmo in the air.

    So ElonJet posed no real threat to the man, nor did it increase the possibility of threat.
    “Terrible things are happening outside. Poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes. Families are torn apart. Men, women, and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared.”
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  18. #2678
    Man, this whole "but what about the celebrity billionaire going out of his way to attract public attention being doxxed by having public information about his jet posted by a fan??" whinging is quite something. Next you'll tell me journalists are doxxing Biden or King Charles by saying he'll be at some ceremony tomorrow or something.

    Anyway, I wonder if he'll actually follow the poll or just say the evil leftists threw bots at it or whatever. He's likely looking for an out due to the ungodly mess he made of things and how much it's clearly affecting his reputation and the rest of his business empire. But maybe his ego will take over once again and he'll try to fix the ship that he himself capsized, doubtless running it into a storm in the process.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  19. #2679
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    The point I'm trying to make is that we can't have a separate sets of rules for how rich and poor people should be treated, because that is a two way street and us common folk will get fucked in the ass in the end if we normalize this kind of behavior.
    It's not about rich vs poor, but public vs private. The Supreme Court has already decided that public figures have less expectation of privacy than private figures. You don't get much more of a public figure than the (ex) richest man in the world.

  20. #2680
    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    It's not about rich vs poor, but public vs private. The Supreme Court has already decided that public figures have less expectation of privacy than private figures. You don't get much more of a public figure than the (ex) richest man in the world.
    To wit, he could absolutely be a private billionaire. There are quite a few of them and we know basically nothing about a great many of them.

    Simply being a billionaire or owning some notable companies does not inherently make one a "public figure". One has to intentionally and frequently put themselves "in public" as the center of attention before that starts becoming a thing. Something which Elom has done, and seems to relish in the attention of.

    So he's purely a public figure by virtue of his own actions. Man, it's almost like this is literally just Elom taking L after L after L, not that it matters much since he's still filthy fuckin rich.

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