Elon Musk Buys Twitter

[Cosmic Janitor]

This is literally "Solar Fricking Roadways 2.0 The Electric Boogaloo" but now...ON WHEEEEEELS MAAAAN.

How about we just ...build public transportation? JUST BUILD PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION GOD DAMMIT. Trains! Trains everywhere.

While that is an option and probably an overall desirable one, it will also be a very hard sale to people who have come to experience a certain luxury in their life. Let's be real here, public transportation is the best economic solution, but most people who use it regularily would probably rather not. The sales numbers for SUVs kinda prove that already.

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People were absolutely positive electric vehicles could never go more than 15 mph 30 years ago. I would never say advancements in solar couldn't happen.

Solar power is very well understood from a physics perspective. The theoretical maximum is somewhere shy of 70% (for our sun) with an infinite stack of solar cells. There is only so much energy you can get from the sun per given area. This is simply not something like processing power where you had (at the time) multiple orders of magnitude of room to grow.

Also who ever believed an electric vehicle couldn't go faster than 15 mph? I know the US has a terrible lack in the public transportation sector, but even you guys have electrified trains, don't you? For more than 30 years as well probably. The electric motor is older than both of us combined and also very well understood for decades.

[Forogil]

People were absolutely positive electric vehicles could never go more than 15 mph 30 years ago. I would never say advancements in solar couldn't happen.

Kind of strange when they already had cars that could top that in the 60s and 70s - https://www.thoughtco.com/history-of...hicles-1991603 and there was an electric car topping 68 mph in 1899.

If the myth had been about range it could possibly have had some merit.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Solar power is very well understood from a physics perspective. The theoretical maximum is somewhere shy of 70% (for our sun) with an infinite stack of solar cells. There is only so much energy you can get from the sun per given area. This is simply not something like processing power where you had (at the time) multiple orders of magnitude of room to grow.

Also who ever believed an electric vehicle couldn't go faster than 15 mph? I know the US has a terrible lack in the public transportation sector, but even you guys have electrified trains, don't you? For more than 30 years as well probably. The electric motor is older than both of us combined and also very well understood for decades.

I suppose the technical argument here, if you want to be super accurate, was that nobody believed cars could go more than 15 mph with the storage tech at the time. People believed then too that they'd found the theoretical maximum battery storage and thus why cars operating independently of tracks or wires would never go above 15 mph.

[Forogil]

People believed then too that they'd found the theoretical maximum battery storage and thus why cars operating independently of tracks or wires would never go above 15 mph.

That doesn't make sense.

Battery storage limits range - not speed, and if you need to charge the cars you can also do it wirelessly - while driving (yes, that's actively tested).

[Shadowferal]

There's obviously a lot of room for improvement. But this should scare the industry; Lightyear’s Finland plant will produce the first thousand of these models, and by late 2023, the company will ramp up manufacturing — quintupling its initial rate of production.

This...spreading should give working ideas to all concerned. A vehicle constantly recharging itself even after getting plugged in...

[Shkar]

People like you remind me of the people who believed we'd never see a computer in the homes of average people because nobody had a spare room to store an entire computer.

They're right though. Solar panel efficiency is heavily tied to relative angle to the sun. Unless the sun is directly overhead, a flat panel is very inefficient, and there's no real way to improve that.

When you then add on other issues with positioning such as shade and latitude, it is far more efficient to place a field of controllable solar panels in, say, the desert and route the electricity to consumers than it is to put solar panels on cars.

Same thing with the solar roadway concept that makes its way around the internet periodically.

[Elder Millennial]

While that is an option and probably an overall desirable one, it will also be a very hard sale to people who have come to experience a certain luxury in their life. Let's be real here, public transportation is the best economic solution, but most people who use it regularily would probably rather not. The sales numbers for SUVs kinda prove that already.

Here's the thing. Cars aren't necessarily either the best or even the most comfortable option. I mean...I'd rather sit comfortably at home in my pajamas than being stuck in traffic for seven hundred eighty nine million hours a year. Sometimes sitting in a slightly less comfortable chair for 30 to 40 minutes and walking ten minutes is an infinitely better option than being stuck in traffic for 3 hours or looking for you damn car 20 minutes in an infinite parking lot...cuz reasons.

[Shadowferal]

Here's the thing. Cars aren't necessarily either the best or even the most comfortable option. I mean...I'd rather sit comfortably at home in my pajamas than being stuck in traffic for seven hundred eighty nine million hours a year. Sometimes sitting in a slightly less comfortable chair for 30 to 40 minutes and walking ten minutes is an infinitely better option than being stuck in traffic for 3 hours...cuz reasons.

Most people in the US don't have that option...nor the option of public transportation.

[Elder Millennial]

Most people in the US don't have that option...nor the option of public transportation.

That's why public transportation is needed also, dispelling the whole myth of car=comfort.

[Shadowferal]

That's why public transportation is needed also, dispelling the whole myth of car=comfort.

Won't happen. Over 75% drive to work using their own vehicles likely for the sole reason of a lack of options. I knew someone who had to drive over 100 miles one way to get to work. Don't imagine for a second that such would improve with public transportation. While the drop in costs (maintenance and gas) would improve, the increase in time spent traveling wouldn't. And that's one thing I think we want; more time for ourselves. If nothing else than to "sit comfortably at home in my pajamas..."

The whole "build more public transportation" mantra does very little now. When I was looking for a job earlier I notice that most jobs were at least 15-20miles away. And I'd need to take two buses and add at least 3 hours of travel time to get to such places on time.

[Muzjhath]

Won't happen. Over 75% drive to work using their own vehicles likely for the sole reason of a lack of options. I knew someone who had to drive over 100 miles one way to get to work. Don't imagine for a second that such would improve with public transportation. While the drop in costs (maintenance and gas) would improve, the increase in time spent traveling wouldn't. And that's one thing I think we want; more time for ourselves. If nothing else than to "sit comfortably at home in my pajamas..."

The whole "build more public transportation" mantra does very little now. When I was looking for a job earlier I notice that most jobs were at least 15-20miles away. And I'd need to take two buses and add at least 3 hours of travel time to get to such places on time.

Then go to the right local assemblies and advocate

[Shadowferal]

Then go to the right local assemblies and advocate

You really have no idea...

[Draco-Onis]

Won't happen. Over 75% drive to work using their own vehicles likely for the sole reason of a lack of options. I knew someone who had to drive over 100 miles one way to get to work. Don't imagine for a second that such would improve with public transportation. While the drop in costs (maintenance and gas) would improve, the increase in time spent traveling wouldn't. And that's one thing I think we want; more time for ourselves. If nothing else than to "sit comfortably at home in my pajamas..."

The whole "build more public transportation" mantra does very little now. When I was looking for a job earlier I notice that most jobs were at least 15-20miles away. And I'd need to take two buses and add at least 3 hours of travel time to get to such places on time.

While I agree with you that this ship has sailed but not because it's not possible but because there's too much special interest and the car industry has way too much pull in the United States. If we wanted to we could easily build a very good network using high speed rails and buses sure it wouldn't always be faster than driving but it would beat paying insurance and gas. It's really just a pipe dream at this point there's no way our government would do something like that versus bombing some Arab country for a few trillion dollars or whatever.

That's not even going into the fact that America really sucks at building shit now.

[Muzjhath]

You really have no idea...

Oh, I do.
Not saying it'll be easy

But if you want change you need to show the fuck up
Guess who do show up for open sessions of the pocsl transportation department?
Old people who like their suburban hellholes

[Draco-Onis]

Oh, I do.
Not saying it'll be easy

But if you want change you need to show the fuck up
Guess who do show up for open sessions of the pocsl transportation department?
Old people who like their suburban hellholes

Nah local governments are strapped for cash and barely have enough money, it would require the federal government not to mention that contracts like that often go to corrupt and incompetent companies so they end up a mess. America can't build shit right anymore too much corruption.

[Twdft]

Americas infrastructure is built around cars, it would need a nationwide change of mentality to switch to public transport. Citizens have to demand public transportation.

at least 15-20miles away. And I'd need to take two buses and add at least 3 hours of travel time to get to such places on time.

15-20 miles is routinely done in under hour public transportation in bigger European cities. You just need to build some nice metros / city trains.

Another problem America has is its zoning laws. You don't allow commercial inside residential etc. For instance I can walk to a couple super markets because they are scattered around residential areas.

[Draco-Onis]

Americas infrastructure is built around cars, it would need a nationwide change of mentality to switch to public transport. Citizens have to demand public transportation.

If you look at the disaster that is California high speed rail project to see even if you get it off the ground corruption and lack of oversight in local governments pretty much dooms these projects.

[Muzjhath]

Nah local governments are strapped for cash and barely have enough money, it would require the federal government not to mention that contracts like that often go to corrupt and incompetent companies so they end up a mess. America can't build shit right anymore too much corruption.

Yeah, because of car-centric design and low taxes. So get fucking INVOLVED.

Local politics are the most important politics. Even if they are the least glorious.

[Endus]

Yeah, because of car-centric design and low taxes. So get fucking INVOLVED.

Local politics are the most important politics. Even if they are the least glorious.

And it won't help. The problem isn't local councils. The problem is the entire society and economic system in which you live. Developers don't want to build or re-develop land to fit the patterns needed. City councils have to deal with the demands of all citizens, not just the few who want to tear literally the entire city down and rebuild from scratch, which is basically what would be required to effect this change. The money to achieve all this literally just does not exist. The time it will take and the short-term harm is overwhelming. You can't change car-centric design with a bit of protesting and campaigning for change. You can move the needle on new developments, but you're never gonna get backing to tear everything down and start over, and that's what you'd need to do to move cities away from being "car-centric". The whole city's zoning needs to be changed and nearly every building would have to be torn down. Street systems would have to be rewritten and rebuilt alongside all that. How highways interact with the city needs to change, and that generally means you're getting the province/state involved too.

[Muzjhath]

And it won't help. The problem isn't local councils. The problem is the entire society and economic system in which you live. Developers don't want to build or re-develop land to fit the patterns needed. City councils have to deal with the demands of all citizens, not just the few who want to tear literally the entire city down and rebuild from scratch, which is basically what would be required to effect this change. The money to achieve all this literally just does not exist. The time it will take and the short-term harm is overwhelming. You can't change car-centric design with a bit of protesting and campaigning for change. You can move the needle on new developments, but you're never gonna get backing to tear everything down and start over, and that's what you'd need to do to move cities away from being "car-centric". The whole city's zoning needs to be changed and nearly every building would have to be torn down. Street systems would have to be rewritten and rebuilt alongside all that. How highways interact with the city needs to change, and that generally means you're getting the province/state involved too.

Was I ever expressing that this was a thing that wouldn't take 20-50 years?
The Netherlands started their policies towards public transport and bikes in the late 70s. They didn't start getting a reputation for cykling until the late 90s.

But the first step needed is action on a local level.

Same for the people who actually express leftist ideology in the US. They're far better of canvasing and politicking locally, than regionally or statewide or nationwide.