1. #4441
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Government reporting activities to internal contacts at Twitter in the hundreds isn't dismissible just because Twitter didn't take action each and every time.
    Yet each communication is apparently inherently coercive, indicating that failure to comply would result in some kind of "vague threat" to the company. Odd how the exception that disproves the rule you claim is itself actually indicative of proof of the rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    The IRS literally showing up at your door asking entry and to speak with you every day for 40 years isn't "no big deal" because you never let them in.
    Twitter is not a private citizen. This is a completely bullshit comparison, pure fiction.

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    FBI is law enforcement, part of the same executive branch as the rest of the government agencies. Maybe people have problems with law enforcement looking after the jokes you make on social media and reporting it to employees within Twitter.
    Again, an office agent sending a FYI email is not coercive. You still have yet to show any reason why beyond, "They're part of the executive branch." which simply shows a gross ignorance of the daily, regular communications that happen all the time.

    This remains an abject lie born of ignorance that you seem to choose to double down on.

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Basically the mere fact that the FBI is tasking agents to examine social media activity that isn't foreign and domestic terrorism and federal crimes and reporting it is already transgressive in its way.
    Except that's not what's happening at all. You assume that the FBI agent is told, "Go look for people shitposting on Twitter." which is not the case. They're monitoring for electing interference, and if they spot some accounts that appear to be breaking Twitter's ToS send them along as a courtesy/FYI - this is basic professionalism and literally nothing more. Two professions - the FBI agent and the Twitter employee - simply maintaining a cordial professional relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I never recall a bill tasking the FBI to search out stuff online and make choices between truth and disinformation in its own eyes.
    That's great, because nobody said they did and that's also not what's happening but it's sure what you're gonna make up because it reinforces your ignorant world view. Again, ignorant is being used in a descriptive way here and not as an insult.

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I do recall a DHS-started Disinformation Governance Board spectacularly going down in flames after Nina Jankwicz was appointed as director. Apparently, you think the FBI would evade similar criticism.
    Yes, because of bad-faith Republican misinformation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/im-no...130514911.html

    Twitter Inc. made headlines this week when it suspended the account of Aaron Greenspan, a well-known critic of Tesla Inc. and its CEO Elon Musk.

    Greenspan, founder of PlainSite, found his online presence abruptly disrupted on June 13. The suspension of his account, which had more than 24,000 followers, raises questions about freedom of speech and online censorship. Ironically, Twitter claims defending and respecting the user's voice is one of its core values.

    Greenspan gained a reputation for meticulously monitoring Twitter for any criticism directed toward Tesla and Musk. His vigilance in tracking and documenting litigation involving various companies, including Tesla, Twitter, General Motors Corp. and Meta Platforms Inc., made him a prominent figure in the world of online scrutiny. Over the years, Greenspan and Musk have found themselves entangled in legal disputes, further fueling the intensity of their interactions.

    PlainSite served as a valuable resource for Twitter users, providing free access to state and federal court filings, public records and insightful analytics features for paying subscribers.

    Greenspan's personal Twitter account was also suspended.

    Even before gaining control of Twitter, Musk would take a proactive approach to addressing criticism.

    Back in 2018, The Wall Street Journal reported that Musk actively monitored Twitter for tweets containing the hashtag $TSLA, often used by Tesla short-sellers. Musk would reach out to executives at companies to investigate employees who were potentially publishing negative tweets about his electric vehicle company.

    During that time, Musk reportedly emailed former Volkswagen CEO Herbert Diess in July 2018, questioning whether one of Diess's employees was using Twitter to criticize Tesla anonymously. Business Insider later reported that Volkswagen determined the tweets were posted by the employee's brother.

    Musk also allegedly texted Lawrence Fossi's employer. According to the WSJ, on July 23, 2018, Musk sent a text to the top executive at Fossi's company, asking the boss whether he knew his employee, known on Twitter as Montana Skeptic, "was obsessively trashing Tesla via a pseudonym," as disclosed in the report

    Following the incident, Fossi voluntarily deactivated his Twitter account and ceased writing for Seeking Alpha. Expressing his surprise at the extent to which Musk would go to quash criticism, Fossi commented, "I'm a nobody and he calls my employer?"

    Following Musk's contact, Fossi ceased writing under the Montana Skeptic alias. He posted a farewell message on Seeking Alpha explaining that Musk threatened to sue him if he continued to write. He also stated, "Neither Mr. Musk nor Tesla has ever attempted, at any time, to contact me. Instead, Mr. Musk determined to go directly to my employer."

    It was revealed that Fossi's employer was an early customer of Tesla's Model S sedan, according to a Tesla spokesperson cited by Business Insider.
    Damn, so Elom not only CENSORED this man on Twitter but he tried to have people #CANCELED in 2018 for tweeting critical things about Tesla?

    That's not very Freeze Peach Absolute Vodka of him.

  2. #4442
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    The reading comprehension failures are all on you, if you can't assimilate why people don't think it's normal for the FBI to be reporting stuff like political satire to Twitter for possible account actions. People generally don't like hearing that their nation's domestic law enforcement agency is tasking agents to monitor their social media use. The same goes for congressional representatives with internal contacts, and government-paid NGOs.
    It's not "we can't assimilate". It's that you literally have not made any effort to make a case that such actions are in any way objectionable or concerning in the first place. It's like hand-wringing because you saw a police officer buying donuts for the precinct. Okay, and? What's the issue? No, you don't get to imply that his being armed was an implicit threat and thus he was extorting the donut shop. That's insane.

    Basically the mere fact that the FBI is tasking agents to examine social media activity that isn't foreign and domestic terrorism and federal crimes and reporting it is already transgressive in its way.
    Nope. You thinking that such activity is "transgressive" is itself completely fuckin' bonkers lunacy. You can't even explain what the issue is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Twitter is not a private citizen. This is a completely bullshit comparison, pure fiction.
    Also, if you had a property bylaw violation that had been recognized by city inspectors and you'd been told it was a problem, police knocking on your door to remind you of compliance obligations until you take care of it is perfectly normal practice.

    So it's even more bullshit than you're making it out to be.


  3. #4443
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Also, if you had a property bylaw violation that had been recognized by city inspectors and you'd been told it was a problem, police knocking on your door to remind you of compliance obligations until you take care of it is perfectly normal practice.

    So it's even more bullshit than you're making it out to be.
    It's not even that.

    It's basically the equivalent of the cops you chat with all the time because they patrol the area and you see them around stopping by to let you know you they noticed you might have an HoA violation.

    Are they acting on behalf of the HoA to threaten or coerce you into action? No, they're being friendly and giving you a heads up to take action on a potential issue that purely relates to you, should you choose, and that's it.

    Still not the most direct comparison, but that would be as serious and concerning as what happened in the emails between the office agent and the Twitter rep.

  4. #4444
    Man, still carrying water for the cause of the Twitter files is quite something when even places like Newsmax seem to gave entirely dropped the issue in embarassment.
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  5. #4445
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    I would not be inclined to agree.
    The N-word is absolutely interpreted differently when it is a black person saying it or a non-black person saying it.
    That doesn't happen with 'cis' or 'cisgender'. It's got one meaning, doesn't really change if it's a cisgender or transgender person saying it.
    I can choose whether or not I interpret "cis" as a slur.
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2023-06-23 at 09:12 PM.
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  6. #4446
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    I can choose whether or not I interpret "cis" as a slur.
    In the same sense that you can choose whether to interpret "avocado" as a slur, I guess. You'll look silly as all hell to anyone else and nobody's gonna agree with you.


  7. #4447
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Anyway, was hoping @tehdang would reply with his usual drivvel, but it appears he's fled from this thread like he always does when people ask him to address their claims. I was going to use his response as the perfect example of why open public debate with conservatives never works.

    - One party provides a claim and sources to back up said claim.
    - The other party must then make the counter claim with sources to refute the original claim. If they cannot refute the sourced claims or refuse to address a certain point, then the original claim is considered "true" in the confines of the debate (at least).
    - Sources need to be rigorously tested academic journals, or in more informal settings that aren't debating scientific phenomena and more abstract, political, moral, or religious topics then news can suffice.

    The main problem with debating conservatives is they break every rule of debate, and will do none of these things. They'll pull claims out of their ass (like @tehdang does all the time) and refuse to address numerous sourced claims that the other side makes. When they DO address claims they cannot refute, they'll either cry that the source is biased or wrong because of "Special interests", like "This scientific journal is wrong because big pharma wants to make profits!" That is not a refutation of a source's veracity, it doesn't address the claims made within the source only the source itself, and is one of the most common fallacies of our age, attacking the source rather than what is in the source.



    Anyway, public debates serve a purpose, but that purpose is not to convince high school dropout conspiracy theorists of scientific phenomena. The "debate me" bros are just people who know their position lacks truth and are attempting to put on a big shouting match with real professionals so they can pretend they won by shouting the loudest.
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  8. #4448
    So you are all engaging with that person who is disingenuous poster.

    Sorry poster on ignore but have we covered this?

    "...video and other newly obtained internal Twitter records show that, far from working to censor pro-Trump sentiment in the days before the Capitol riot, the company’s leaders were intent on leaving it up—despite internal warnings... trouble was brewing."
    https://twitter.com/justinhendrix/st...g7mjXBj1w&s=19

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...er-video-jan6/

    But the video and other newly obtained internal Twitter records show that, far from working to censor pro-Trump sentiment in the days before the Capitol riot, the company’s leaders were intent on leaving it up — despite internal warnings that trouble was brewing
    It was discussed but eventually left up.

    Elon lied.
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  9. #4449
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    In the same sense that you can choose whether to interpret "avocado" as a slur, I guess. You'll look silly as all hell to anyone else and nobody's gonna agree with you.
    That's not really the point im trying to go for. I'm talking about the "It's context sensitive" thing where Musk considers "CIS" a slur but the "N word" is "context sensitive"
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  10. #4450
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    That's not really the point im trying to go for. I'm talking about the "It's context sensitive" thing where Musk considers "CIS" a slur but the "N word" is "context sensitive"
    My point is, nobody actually considers "cis" a slur. Some bigoted shitmongers use "trans" as a slur because they're transphobic fartsniffers, so they project their own malice onto anyone using the opposite term.

    The response to that claim should be jeering derision and mockery, not entertaining it as an actual position.


  11. #4451
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Anyway, was hoping @tehdang would reply with his usual drivvel, but it appears he's fled from this thread like he always does when people ask him to address their claims. I was going to use his response as the perfect example of why open public debate with conservatives never works.

    - One party provides a claim and sources to back up said claim.
    - The other party must then make the counter claim with sources to refute the original claim. If they cannot refute the sourced claims or refuse to address a certain point, then the original claim is considered "true" in the confines of the debate (at least).
    - Sources need to be rigorously tested academic journals, or in more informal settings that aren't debating scientific phenomena and more abstract, political, moral, or religious topics then news can suffice.

    The main problem with debating conservatives is they break every rule of debate, and will do none of these things. They'll pull claims out of their ass (like @tehdang does all the time) and refuse to address numerous sourced claims that the other side makes. When they DO address claims they cannot refute, they'll either cry that the source is biased or wrong because of "Special interests", like "This scientific journal is wrong because big pharma wants to make profits!" That is not a refutation of a source's veracity, it doesn't address the claims made within the source only the source itself, and is one of the most common fallacies of our age, attacking the source rather than what is in the source.



    Anyway, public debates serve a purpose, but that purpose is not to convince high school dropout conspiracy theorists of scientific phenomena. The "debate me" bros are just people who know their position lacks truth and are attempting to put on a big shouting match with real professionals so they can pretend they won by shouting the loudest.
    You insisted that certain allegations were contrary to what I had stated, and I pointed out that they were in fact meaningless to them. I'm afraid that impasse isn't solved by asserting it disproves something it doesn't. I'm happy to let the exchange stand as a point of debate if anybody wants to read and follow. Repetition at this point wouldn't help anything.

    Sorry poster on ignore but
    I'll just have to be informed if this changes; this is between posters that read each other's posts.
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  12. #4452
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    -snip-
    Conspiracy theories are against the forum's rules, just so you're aware.
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    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #4453
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    You insisted that certain allegations were contrary to what I had stated, and I pointed out that they were in fact meaningless to them. I'm afraid that impasse isn't solved by asserting it disproves something it doesn't. I'm happy to let the exchange stand as a point of debate if anybody wants to read and follow. Repetition at this point wouldn't help anything.
    You made an assertion about the Twitter files. I countered those assertions and provided ample evidence for why the Twitter files were heavily curated by Musk, as well as them not saying what you claimed they even said in the first place. I gave you links to prove my assertions. You have yet to provide any kind of credence to your wrong opinions, other than pulling words out of your own ass.

    This is why it's useless to debate most conservatives. They think saying things makes them true. They don't follow the rules of debate. If you believe that public debates are essential for professionals to plead their case to the public against critics, and thus lend credence to their findings in the public's eye and that "Truth will carry the debate", then you have to have rules strictly enforced.

    The entire point of such debates completely breaks down when you have bad faith debaters (such as yourself) making unsupported claims and performing for an audience rather than providing accurate and truthful information.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
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  14. #4454
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Conspiracy theories are against the forum's rules, just so you're aware.
    A shame mods seem to either agree with those conspiracy theories or are okay with the sea lions, T's, bad faith posters, and those that take the thread off topic again and again.

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  15. #4455
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    My point is, nobody actually considers "cis" a slur.
    While I ofc agree when it comes to "Cis" and related compound words, I'd say that "cissy" absolutely is used to bait an aggressive response

  16. #4456
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    I would not be inclined to agree.
    The N-word is absolutely interpreted differently when it is a black person saying it or a non-black person saying it.
    That doesn't happen with 'cis' or 'cisgender'. It's got one meaning, doesn't really change if it's a cisgender or transgender person saying it.

    Also, leaning into the analogy - if only cisgender people could say the word, it'd probably just disappear from twitter. You really do need to have a decent grounding in LGBTQI+ language to actually know the word. I literally only use it in these discussions.
    ... the term cis-gender comes from Latin... and CisAlpineGaul
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  17. #4457
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    I thought if you were so incredibly thick you believed them it was acceptable? I can't keep up with the interpretations of enforced rules anymore.
    I believe the loop hole was if they were "Political Opinions" back around October 12th and 13th, 2018 in the Brett Kavanaugh thread around page 325. There was discussion by posters of the difference between the two along with some infractions about discussing the difference between the two and the ramifications and I'll just take my 5 point infraction now.

    To my knowledge, there was never ever any clarification given.
    If I'm wrong, I'd appreciate a link.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  18. #4458
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    While I ofc agree when it comes to "Cis" and related compound words, I'd say that "cissy" absolutely is used to bait an aggressive response
    Honestly I don't think I've seen 'cissy' literally anywhere other than the South Park episode.
    I think Musk's point is that 'cis' is almost always used as an excuse to disregard someone; "you're just a cis het white male". Perhaps our lord and savior Elon has conducted a statistical analysis of the use of the word on Twitter and determined it is a slur on that basis. Praise be to Lord Musk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    ... the term cis-gender comes from Latin... and CisAlpineGaul
    I'm not sure what impact that has on anything.
    Last edited by LilSaihah; 2023-06-25 at 12:18 PM.
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  19. #4459
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    Honestly I don't think I've seen 'cissy' literally anywhere other than the South Park episode.
    I think Musk's point is that 'cis' is almost always used as an excuse to disregard someone; "you're just a cis het white male". Perhaps our lord and savior Elon has conducted a statistical analysis of the use of the word on Twitter and determined it is a slur on that basis. Praise be to Lord Musk.
    I've never seen it at all But if I did, I'd consider it flaming. Used in the contest of parody would be perfectly acceptable. I just saw it mentioned and kind of recoiled.

  20. #4460
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    Don't use the thread title to shoehorn in your hot takes on forbidden topics. If the thread continues to get hijacked to argue about culture warfare, it'll be closed.
    Why not....... and I know this is a very fucking complicated thing to think....... but why not ban those individuals instead of closing the thread?
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

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