Elon Musk Buys Twitter

[enigma77]

The legacy media is in its death throes and they know it.

[Drutt]

Hey, guess what? Turns out that not showing the headline summary for links is bad and Xhitter is going to switch back enhance it!

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon...-again-2023-11

Who could possible have seen this coming?

[PgStckr]

So unapologetically pushing Russian propaganda as if it had any connection to reality, then.

Sorry for the late response, got benched for a few days.

I will have you explain what you mean by "pushing propaganda."
Is it speaking your side? Than I am as guilty of it just as westoids and okrainians are.

Is it about presenting facts and situation in a specific, one-sided manner?
Then do tell me, what number of journos from the west did ever come to us in Donbass and speak to US, ask US about the whole thing, did they ever care about our opinions and views? Were you ever presented with OUR view on the whole shtick? Russia saved us. But you won't have it. Is this what you'd call "Russian propaganda" ?

Russia is getting pushback for its brutal invasion of a sovereign nation that posed not threat to Russia whatsoever.

You have to understand two things, here: Russia is completely justified in her actions on okraine, these are done well within Russia's interests of protecting it's security and safety of her people, that's first. The second is, you've got nothing on Russia with the "brutal" part. For reference, take a look at brutal invasion and genocide of Palestinians.
If you can't admit to that, than you're not here for an honest discussion, and your views are entirely skewed against Russia from the get-go.
Okraine joining nato and EU is a direct threat to Russia, to deny it is to be willfully blind.

[Muzjhath]

Okraine joining nato and EU is a direct threat to Russia, to deny it is to be willfully blind.

NATO is a defensive organisation. The only time they as an organisation acted anyway offensively was under a UN directive.

Russia shouldn't be afraid of NATO unless they intend to militarily conquer places.

[PgStckr]

NATO is a defensive organisation. The only time they as an organisation acted anyway offensively was under a UN directive.

Russia shouldn't be afraid of NATO unless they intend to militarily conquer places.

Sure.
Let's do some motions:
1. nato is a defensive alliance, first installed to oppose Soviet Union
2. Soviet Union applied for membership in nato at least 2 times, both declined
3. Soviet Union fell and disintegrated
4. Russia applied for membership, at least twice, both declined, getting soundly encircled by nato members and nato bases
5. nato is a defensive alliance against who?

[Huehuecoyotl]

Sure.
Let's do some motions:
1. nato is a defensive alliance, first installed to oppose Soviet Union
2. Soviet Union applied for membership in nato at least 2 times, both declined
3. Soviet Union fell and disintegrated
4. Russia applied for membership, at least twice, both declined, getting soundly encircled by nato members and nato bases
5. nato is a defensive alliance against who?

To answer 5, it's a defensive alliance against anyone that is aggressive towards any of their members. You might think it's specifically against Russia, but that's just because it's Russia that's consistently being aggressive.

If Russia stuck to their own borders, NATO becomes irrelevant to them. So it's very VERY interesting that a Russian talking point for so long has been that NATO is a "threat". A threat to their ability to attack and invade other countries?

As for Russia joining NATO, was their ever a point where they weren't involved in some war or stealing some part of another country? Because you can't join while you're doing that.

[PgStckr]

To answer 5, it's a defensive alliance against anyone that is aggressive towards any of their members. You might think it's specifically against Russia, but that's just because it's Russia that's consistently being aggressive.

If Russia stuck to their own borders, NATO becomes irrelevant to them. So it's very VERY interesting that a Russian talking point for so long has been that NATO is a "threat". A threat to their ability to attack and invade other countries?

As for Russia joining NATO, was their ever a point where they weren't involved in some war or stealing some part of another country? Because you can't join while you're doing that.

How many countries did Russia invade over, say past 30 years compared to, say, usa?
I don't recall none.
Would you be so kind to enlighten me?

n.b. usa admitted to straight up making up all the evidence they presented when advocating for invasion and usurpation of Iraq back in 2003, I believe.
Where are the sanctions and other consequences?

[alach]

From wikipedia :

Soviet occupation of the Baltic States, 1940
Soviet occupation of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina, 1940
Soviet invasion of Manchuria, 1945
Hungarian Revolution of 1956
Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia, 1968
Soviet–Afghan War, 1979–1989
Russian Federation
First Chechen War, 1994–1997
Second Chechen War, 1999–2000
Russo-Georgian War, 2008
Russo-Ukrainian War, 2014–
2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine

Forgive me for going back a little more than 30 years, I just really want to get the point across.
And this is not mention countless instances of bad behavoir Russia has displayed, from assassinating citizens on its own soil and abroad, to cheating everywhere from wow to the olympics. Russia has a history of not just being the bad guy, but also seeming to relish in it.

edit. Sorry this should be in the other thread.

[Corvus]

NATO is such a threat to russia that russia has stripped its air defences from kalingrad to redeploy elsewhere, leaving the place defenceless. Not to mention stripping the borders with Finland clean after Finland joined nato.
Not something you'd do if NATO was an aggressive alliance.

[PgStckr]

From wikipedia :

Soviet occupation of the Baltic States, 1940
Soviet occupation of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina, 1940
Soviet invasion of Manchuria, 1945
Hungarian Revolution of 1956
Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia, 1968
Soviet–Afghan War, 1979–1989
Russian Federation
First Chechen War, 1994–1997
Second Chechen War, 1999–2000
Russo-Georgian War, 2008
Russo-Ukrainian War, 2014–
2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine

Forgive me for going back a little more than 30 years, I just really want to get the point across.
And this is not mention countless instances of bad behavoir Russia has displayed, from assassinating citizens on its own soil and abroad, to cheating everywhere from wow to the olympics. Russia has a history of not just being the bad guy, but also seeming to relish in it.

edit. Sorry this should be in the other thread.

getting the point across would be comparing USSR to usa in regards to securing their respective interests on foreign soils.
Yet usa is one of the nato-founding countries, so usa gets a pass at doing the incursions, invasions, and enslavings. That is not counting employing yesterday's nazi officers as members of nato ruling council.

Regarding the list you've provided,
1) Chechnya was(and is) a part of Russia, so the point is moot.
2) regarding Georgian 5 day war, even UN admitted to georgia being the agressor here, Russia was justified in her actions
3) regarding "Russian-okrainian war of 2014", as a Donbassi citizen, I can tell I was not being shelled by Russia for past 8 years. These were okrainian bombs
4) regarding SMO of 2022, Russia is justified in her actions, protecting her people, her interests, her security.

Bringing up bad behaviour requires us to mention unlawful jailing of a fellow Russian citizen, Viktor Bouth by usa for more than 10 years
it requires us to mention Julian Assange, as well
It requires us to mention that the Maidan on okraine in 2014 was instigated, staged and sponsored by usa
I could go on, I think.

[Muzjhath]

How many countries did Russia invade over, say past 30 years compared to, say, usa?
I don't recall none.
Would you be so kind to enlighten me?

n.b. usa admitted to straight up making up all the evidence they presented when advocating for invasion and usurpation of Iraq back in 2003, I believe.
Where are the sanctions and other consequences?

NATO was extremely unpopular in Sweden in 2010. I was weird for being largely positive about it.
In 2014 for no reason at all it became more popular.
In 2022 it got a majority of wanting to join.

Ask yourself why. What made NATO grow in popularity?

[PgStckr]

NATO was extremely unpopular in Sweden in 2010. I was weird for being largely positive about it.
In 2014 for no reason at all it became more popular.
In 2022 it got a majority of wanting to join.

Ask yourself why. What made NATO grow in popularity?

Dunno, probably, Sweden being one of the top-4 countries with the highest percentage of rapes happening in 2023?

[DarkTZeratul]

1) Chechnya was(and is) a part of Russia, so the point is moot.

Bullshit it's a moot point. Chechnya declared independence from the Soviet Union in 1991. Russia invaded to take it back in 1994, failed, then *assassinated their president*, invaded again, and conquered it. I'd say that's pretty damn relevant to Ukraine, which also declared independence from the Soviet Union and has also had to deal with Russia constantly trying to reconquer it.

2) regarding Georgian 5 day war, even UN admitted to georgia being the agressor here, Russia was justified in her actions

I'd love to see a source for that, because the European Court of Human Rights said Russia is directly responsible for the human rights abuses that took place during the Russo-Georgian War.

4) regarding SMO of 2022, Russia is justified in her actions, protecting her people, her interests, her security.

And what about Ukraine? Do they not also get to protect their people, their interests, and their security? Because it seems like you're saying Russia should be allowed to tell them what they can and can't do, which they absolutely fucking aren't.

Bringing up bad behaviour requires us to mention unlawful jailing of a fellow Russian citizen, Viktor Bouth by usa for more than 10 years
it requires us to mention Julian Assange, as well

It really doesn't. What does any of that have to do with Russia violating Ukraine's sovereignty by invading over a choice another Ukraine made that's none of Russia's business?

EDIT: Also, just as a reminder, this thread is about Elon Musk, not Russia and Ukraine. If you're going to peddle Russian propaganda at least peddle it in the right place.

[PgStckr]

I'd love to see a source for that, because the European Court of Human Rights said Russia is directly responsible for the human rights abuses that took place during the Russo-Georgian War.
.

In November 2008, Georgia called on the EU to conduct an independent inquiry who was to blame for the conflict.[318] Heidi Tagliavini, a national of Switzerland (non-EU state), oversaw the making of the EU-sponsored report which was published in September 2009.[319] The report stated that open hostilities started "... with a large-scale Georgian military operation against the town of Tskhinvali and the surrounding areas, launched in the night of 7 to 8 August 2008",[320] This conclusion was widely reported on by international media.[321][322][323] However, the report also noted "... any explanation of the origins of the conflict cannot focus solely on the artillery attack on Tskhinvali in the night of 7/8 August",[324] since "... it was only the culminating point of a long period of increasing tensions, provocations and incidents",[325] and there was "... no way to assign overall responsibility for the conflict to one side alone."[326] The report said it "is not in a position" to consider the Georgian claims of the Russian invasion before 8 August to be substantiated enough

according to an already russophobic (in no small thanks to okrainans) wikipedia.

Bullshit it's a moot point. Chechnya declared independence from the Soviet Union in 1991.

You mean Ichkerya insurgents. Which were crushed, justifiably so.

And what about Ukraine? Do they not also get to protect their people, their interests, and their security? Because it seems like you're saying Russia should be allowed to tell them what they can and can't do, which they absolutely fucking aren't.

what about it? You ask what about it?
*I* was a citizen of okraine. Why did okraine bomb ME?

It really doesn't. What does any of that have to do with Russia violating Ukraine's sovereignty by invading over a choice another Ukraine made that's none of Russia's business?

okraine joining nato and eu IS Russia's buisness.
As a comparison, Iraq having(actually not having at all) WMDs was usa's buisness, for some reason, and when it turned out to be a ruse and a fake, did usa get chastised? Why not?
Speaking of okrainian souverenity at all, you'd have to go back all the way to anti-constitutional displacement of the-then president, back in 2014.

EDIT: Also, just as a reminder, this thread is about Elon Musk, not Russia and Ukraine. If you're going to peddle Russian propaganda at least peddle it in the right place.

We can at least agree to that we're derailing the thread.
Russian propaganda, though, is an interesting choice of words.
What is Russian propaganda? Speaking my side? What's the difference between Russian propaganda and westoid propaganda, then?

[Mayhem]

Regarding the list you've provided,
1) Chechnya was(and is) a part of Russia, so the point is moot.
2) regarding Georgian 5 day war, even UN admitted to georgia being the agressor here, Russia was justified in her actions
3) regarding "Russian-okrainian war of 2014", as a Donbassi citizen, I can tell I was not being shelled by Russia for past 8 years. These were okrainian bombs
4) regarding SMO of 2022, Russia is justified in her actions, protecting her people, her interests, her security.

Yo, 1) is the same as 3) but somehow you think it's different, interesting

[PgStckr]

Yo, 1) is the same as 3) but somehow you think it's different, interesting

yo, you intentionally missed the context in which I brought these examples up, and attributed to me the words I didn't utter nor imply or insinuate, intereresting.

[Dontrike]

yo, you intentionally missed the context in which I brought these examples up, and attributed to me the words I didn't utter nor imply or insinuate, intereresting.

What's interesting is the mods put up with the T farmer that's failing to make Russia sound like the good guy.

[Mayhem]

yo, you intentionally missed the context in which I brought these examples up, and attributed to me the words I didn't utter nor imply or insinuate, intereresting.

The context is entirely irrelevant when I point out that you contradict yourself (twice even) in a list of 4 points.

[PgStckr]

What's interesting is the mods put up with the T farmer that's failing to make Russia sound like the good guy.

Am I?
Does it look like I'm trying to convince the conceited?

- - - Updated - - -

The context is entirely irrelevant when I point out that you contradict yourself (twice even) in a list of 4 points.

No.
You will have to explain why and how do you think the Chechnya/Ichkeriya Incident and the ATO of 2014 against citizens of Donbass are one and the same.

[Mayhem]

No.
You will have to explain why and how do you think the Chechnya/Ichkeriya Incident and the ATO of 2014 against citizens of Donbass are one and the same.

No, I don't have to explain that at all, they are your points, you have to explain how 1 is moot because it is within Russia's border but 3 is not despite being within Ukraine's border.