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  1. #141
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Branflakes6000 View Post
    What freedoms are you talking about?
    Freedom of speech.

    In no way affected by Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter, as freedom of speech was never a consideration for Twitter in the first place, outside of a VERY few specific instances and, generally, not in the way you probably think.


  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post

    Pretty good example of what will happen here and when his so called fans start breathing down his neck also about the nonsense going on with Disney lol.
    Just like they scream "woke mob cancel culture" ruins Twitter, when Elon Musk makes Twitter a shithole, they'll scream it's "woke mob cancel culture" that ruined Twitter. These guys have absolutely. zero. self awareness.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Freedom of speech.

    In no way affected by Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter, as freedom of speech was never a consideration for Twitter in the first place, outside of a VERY few specific instances and, generally, not in the way you probably think.
    I'm purely talking about what I'm free to do on any given website, that is dictated by its rules/ToS. I'm not talking about my freedom as an american citizen. If rules aren't as restrictive, I am less restricted in my on-site activities.

  4. #144
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Give examples of what is restrictive now vs what won’t be.

    Because nothing happens s going to change. Except Elon hold all the liability.
    My primary concern is him saying "well, it's free speech" while letting people spread unfettered lies, because apathy is easy for someone with billions of dollars.

    At least within the US, that misinformation was incredibly harmful in 2016, 2020 and over the course of COVID. Twitter already was doing the bare minimum to combat them.

    More topically, how much less concrete would US support for Ukraine if Trump had been allowed a platform to spread Russian disinformation on the daily, rather than his second-hand, sporadic statements kicked out.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    My primary concern is him saying "well, it's free speech" while letting people spread unfettered lies, because apathy is easy for someone with billions of dollars.

    At least within the US, that misinformation was incredibly harmful in 2016, 2020 and over the course of COVID. Twitter already was doing the bare minimum to combat them.

    More topically, how much less concrete would US support for Ukraine if Trump had been allowed a platform to spread Russian disinformation on the daily, rather than his second-hand, sporadic statements kicked out.
    unfettered? the reply and quote tweet buttons are right there. ratio them with or without facts and logic.

  6. #146
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Branflakes6000 View Post
    I'm purely talking about what I'm free to do on any given website, that is dictated by its rules/ToS. I'm not talking about my freedom as an american citizen. If rules aren't as restrictive, I am less restricted in my on-site activities.
    You set out talking about "restricted speech".

    Twitter's moderation doesn't affect your speech rights or freedoms in any way.


  7. #147
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Branflakes6000 View Post
    unfettered? the reply and quote tweet buttons are right there. ratio them with or without facts and logic.
    The people who are influenced by this kind of rapid misinformation aren't going to be swayed by informational retorts.

    All of the COVID misinformation- horse dewormer, UVs, 5G, vaccine misinformation- all of that HAD logical rebukes out the wazoo. But people didn't bother to read those, because they heard the headline or tweet or whatever that solidified their worldview and they stopped at that.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  8. #148
    I'm just waiting for the inevitable, "Put a computer chip in my head for ENHANCED FREEDOM, Daddy Musk." to start. I don't expect it will be long.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You set out talking about "restricted speech".

    Twitter's moderation doesn't affect your speech rights or freedoms in any way.
    it was a mocking reply to a post about "conservative freedom of speech" platforms

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The people who are influenced by this kind of rapid misinformation aren't going to be swayed by informational retorts.

    All of the COVID misinformation- horse dewormer, UVs, 5G, vaccine misinformation- all of that HAD logical rebukes out the wazoo. But people didn't bother to read those, because they heard the headline or tweet or whatever that solidified their worldview and they stopped at that.
    if they took all that immediately at face value, their worldview was already solidified

  10. #150
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    I find it amusing that the man who made electric cars viable, popular, and profitable, has become "the bad guy".

  11. #151
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    My primary concern is him saying "well, it's free speech" while letting people spread unfettered lies, because apathy is easy for someone with billions of dollars.

    At least within the US, that misinformation was incredibly harmful in 2016, 2020 and over the course of COVID. Twitter already was doing the bare minimum to combat them.

    More topically, how much less concrete would US support for Ukraine if Trump had been allowed a platform to spread Russian disinformation on the daily, rather than his second-hand, sporadic statements kicked out.
    Yeah I hear what you’re saying but if it puts your mind at ease much of this purchase has less to do with musk and more to do with who ultimately ends up with the lability.

    Musk may continue to be stupid but many realities will reign him in it. He has a huge target on his back.

    Therefore many of the same restraints that are in their lace now aren’t going anywhere.

    Elon Musk can’t reinvent the wheel here or even change the ultimate mechanism in place. He can come unban whoever he wants however he can also be held liable for any harm they cause.

    That’s why some complain about Twitter now. There is no conspiracy the only way you ever got banned in reality is when that liability extended to the board and ownership. Not because Twitter has ever been left or right.


    But as I said before Elon likely just flushed billions down the toilet because honestly there is nowhere new to go on Twitter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I find it amusing that the man who made electric cars viable, popular, and profitable, has become "the bad guy".
    Because he didn’t do any of those things he just invested and became the face of those products. Their success had little or nothing to do with it.

    And he was never a good guy to begin with, as to being a bad guy who knows. He has become a jackass though.

    Something that will come back to ruin him right or left.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Good news. Hopefully free speech is restored to Twitter.
    You never lost free speech on Twitter, because you never had it. You ONLY GET FREE SPEECH with the fucking government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I know several people who were banned for wrongthink and moved to gab, minds, and telegram. Looks like they'll be able to come back soon.
    No, you know several people that broke the fucking TOS and got consequences for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerfest View Post
    Hmmm... maybe I should buy MMO-Champion...
    I don't think we have to worry about you buying anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    They have...Getr, Gab, Parler, Truth Social, Frank etc. were all created to be "free speech" platforms.

    Yet nobody has actually bothered to use them, and they struggle to retain their "conservative influencers" since they apparently require libs to own to create content, so they've all mostly returned to Twitter/Insta since it was never about "freeze peach" for them, it was about being able to create content "owning the libs" to continue making money from their audience.
    And yet, they all have the same ToS, even some saying that you can't make fun of them like Truth Social does. So not actual real free speech platforms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Branflakes6000 View Post
    i'm saying go make restricted speech twitter now
    You don't have free speech anywhere, except with the government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Branflakes6000 View Post
    far less restricted than it was judging by all that elon has said about it
    Wrong. You think he is a free speech absolutist, but he isn't. He has actually sued to stop people from speaking about him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Branflakes6000 View Post
    if the ToS becomes less restrictive, the platform becomes more free for the users. there's nothing to misunderstand there.
    I can guarantee that it isn't going to change much. Because they would just turn into another GAB, Parler, Gettr, or Truth Social. Basically in the shitter.

  13. #153
    Herald of the Titans CostinR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    You never lost free speech on Twitter, because you never had it. You ONLY GET FREE SPEECH with the fucking government.
    I am going to laugh and use this argument exactly when people start getting furious over what Elon Musk did.

    This whole thing is just delicious irony, because the very people that advocated and argued in favor of Twitter being able to do whatever it wanted are the very ones furious over what Musk could do.

    Perhaps the solution is not to allow such incredibly powerful social media platforms that have an incredible influence over our lives be governed in what is and isn't allowed be control by private actors: Certainly we in Europe refuse this bullshit argument.

    By the way fun fact: When the courts rule in favor of social media platforms, they do so on the basis of Freedom of Speech.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    I am going to laugh and use this argument exactly when people start getting furious over what Elon Musk did.

    This whole thing is just delicious irony, because the very people that advocated and argued in favor of Twitter being able to do whatever it wanted are the very ones furious over what Musk could do.
    This is hopelessly twisting the argument to something altogether different.

    Perhaps the solution is not to allow such incredibly powerful social media platforms that have an incredible influence over our lives be governed in what is and isn't allowed be control by private actors: Certainly we in Europe refuse this bullshit argument.
    What? No you don't. Europe has more government regulation, and on top of it, those companies can largely do the same things.

    By the way fun fact: When the courts rule in favor of social media platforms, they do so on the basis of Freedom of Speech.
    Mostly also no. It depends entirely on the case and what is being decided. A social media platform has the right to tell people to leave on the same basis that an owner of a restaurant can eject a beligerent customer, or you can kick unruly people out of your house.

    It is baffling that any serious person could try to seriously promote the idea that freedom of speech means erasing the freedom of others to dislike what you have to say.

  15. #155
    Herald of the Titans Rethul Ur No's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    Are these resisters actually contributing to our country and paying their taxes? Or are they freeloading?

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I find it amusing that the man who made electric cars viable, popular, and profitable, has become "the bad guy".
    When was he ever "the good guy"?
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    When was he ever "the good guy"?
    In the fever dreams of those who believe that the con-man is some sort of IRL Tony Stark.

  18. #158
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    When was he ever "the good guy"?
    Tesla has done more for the environment than any government energy program has done.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Tesla has done more for the environment than any government energy program has done.
    Is that so? In what way?

    By doing his shit-coin bullshit he is already damaging the environment more than anything.
    And his factories aren't really helpful for the local habitat of several species either, not to mention the extreme water consumption and defilement of drinking water.
    You can't possibly mean that he has done more for the environment simply by selling EVs?

    And when it comes to organised labour, he isn't really better than, for example, Amazon.
    I remember reading that the new factory in Brandenburg for example pays 20% less than the bargained wage standards for the industry.

    Overall he is a rich asshole like everyone else. You don't get rich by being "nice".
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-04-26 at 07:23 AM.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    I am going to laugh and use this argument exactly when people start getting furious over what Elon Musk did.

    This whole thing is just delicious irony, because the very people that advocated and argued in favor of Twitter being able to do whatever it wanted are the very ones furious over what Musk could do.

    Perhaps the solution is not to allow such incredibly powerful social media platforms that have an incredible influence over our lives be governed in what is and isn't allowed be control by private actors: Certainly we in Europe refuse this bullshit argument.

    By the way fun fact: When the courts rule in favor of social media platforms, they do so on the basis of Freedom of Speech.
    Why? It is 100% true. You don't get free speech ANYWHERE but with the government. And they rule that way, because of Citizen's United. It is their freedom of speech and freedom of association, as well as private property. Because they are using private servers to post bullshit.

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