Can we finally get the BM buff, please?

[cparle87]

The obvious counter argument is then: why doesn’t everyone already play the same class/spec?
Sure, there are people that fit your criteria, but there are probably just as many, if not more, that play what they find fun.
High end players will play what performs best, usually regardless of ease of play, and what their guild needs. Low end players (not meant as an insult) will play what they find fun, regardless of difficulty of spec or performance. People in between are a mixed bag of the far ends of the spectrum.
The bottom line is that most players will pick what they enjoy or what performs better. So, if BM performs better, prog minded players will play it. If MM performs better, prog minded players will play it. This is shown to be the case anytime something performs better.
If all things were exactly equal, some players will pick to play the easier spec, yet others will pick the spec they find fun. Some players will pick the harder spec simply because they enjoy that it’s a little more difficult.

Thing is performs better can mean many things. Some would use the example you do as in meaning dps numbers. Others would consider performing well to be ease of use, qualify of life, or even utility.

As for your original question, people do do that. There are always people who will chase the meta and play something difficult or even something they hate to get the most progression.

[Eapoe]

Thing is performs better can mean many things. Some would use the example you do as in meaning dps numbers. Others would consider performing well to be ease of use, qualify of life, or even utility.

As for your original question, people do do that. There are always people who will chase the meta and play something difficult or even something they hate to get the most progression.

Exactly. This goes hand in hand with my point. Just because something is easy doesn’t mean people will play it, just like something being meta doesn’t mean everyone will play it.

[Stormxraven]

People will ask themselves why play a harder spec when an easier one gives equally good numbers?

Or people will be able to play specs they enjoy rather than being coerced because some specs can't keep up. Like has been mentioned no spec is really that difficult.

[Dorothyjean]

Well obviously - mythic is irrelevant due to stacking and the small number of parses, especially on later bosses.

Heroic shows a much better picture of class balance for the majority of players - and it shows that BM is still better than some specs, and hunters overall have 2 amazing specs.

Enh, not really. Ilvl still scales nicely for specs and you see that with Normal, Heroic and Mythic parses and Heroic parses are also the most skewed out of the bunch because of splits and overgeared mythic raids doing Heroics also so you end up with the most disparity at the max level of it. Since Mythic is the true end game of raiding (I don't Mythic raid either, just an opinion) the most realistic class/spec layouts will be there because the player has to perform at max level to parse high whereas in Heroic the speed of the fight, PI etc. will mess it up.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's also not discount player skill over the statistics.

BM keeps telling me at a heroic level I am at the bottom with Affliction just below me and I keep beating more than half of those class/specs in my heroic raid on every boss.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Exactly. This goes hand in hand with my point. Just because something is easy doesn’t mean people will play it, just like something being meta doesn’t mean everyone will play it.

No but it is a factor! Personally I think it feels pretty bad to work like 3x as hard to get the same or worse results.

For example, when GW2 came out (I'm sure it's different now) I loved playing my elementalist because it was an awesome unique playstyle. Then a couple months in everyone realize a brainless guardian could autoattack their way to more damage/better support. That's a really terrible feeling.

Now obviously, all games need a gradient curve for difficulty, and there's nothing wrong with having 'easy' and 'medium' specs perform about the same just to have some variety. but if you get to the 'easy' to 'hard' spread I think it's a lot better problem.

As another example, right now playing my shadow priest in Ae feels like being a master pianist sometimes with shadowflame prism, multi-dotting, etc. Meanwhile my MM hunter can basically hit 2 buttons and do 20k dungeon dps while also having insane utility! That's kinda bonkers to me.

I don't think BM should be nearly as bad compared to MM or SV as it is now. But if you completely remove the Always Be Casting/Movement element from a ranged spec, it is inherently just going to be a lot better in practice than paper. IMo it should be balanced down a bit accordingly.

[Makorus]

I love this meme of "BM is so easy" when it's genuinely more complex to play well compared to MM/SV.

Lower skill floor but definitely a higher skill ceiling.

[eschatological]

I played BM when I was a raid leader. None of them hunter specs are particularly difficult, but literally never having to look at my own character and only paying attention to my frenzy tracker was such a boon for BM as a raidleader.

MM you have to mildly think every once in awhile to land a hardcast Aimed Shot, but that's about it. Also easy.

[Glorious Leader]

Its a result of "easy to play hard to master". This was almost inevitable actually because those were almost contradictory goals.

[glowpipe]

The easiest specs should be the lowest performing too. I see no problem with BM being lower than MM and SV.

Why would you play something harder if the dumbest spec in the game can do as good ?

woah woah woah. Survival hard? Its just as easy as bm and most other specs.

[Verissaugh]

SV hunters AoE is quite simple and strong thanks to both 4set and legendary, their penalty is more based on being melee and more to think of.
MM hunters got quite good cleave? and AoE but not as strong as SV. Their penalty is more based on hardcast.
BM hunters AoE is bad without the covenant ability, they should atleast get a buff for their AoE put into their 4set, not only the added time on beast cleave. Their penalty is none.

Every single person knows that majority of ppl will go for the spec that performs the best, always happens on every season/expansion.
Do I believe BM hunters should get buffed? On AoE slightly, but they still need to be under SV and MM due to no penalty. If they want to be equal dmg, they need to add penalty to them with either casting time or something else.

Are any of them difficult to play? Id prob say no class is really hard to play but hard to fully master without thinking too much, just BM hunters have none of the penalty the rest of the ranged has except maybe mages with shimmer, atleast what ive seen and felt.

TLDR: What would you be willing to give up as penalty to be equal dmg in m+ to the other 2 specs as BM?

[cparle87]

Or people will be able to play specs they enjoy rather than being coerced because some specs can't keep up. Like has been mentioned no spec is really that difficult.

We've had people in this very thread saying BM is literally garbage for being "too far" behind the others, jws.

[Kiriastrasza]

This is nonsense, BM is capable of killing Jailer on mythic, Bm is capable of doing 20+, end of story the spec is fine, its a 2 buttons spect that can do anything on move

You don't play BM, although BM is not my fave spec it actually has a more indepth rotation than MM hunter atm.. MM hunter is quite literally 3/4 buttons and thats awfully boring as there's nothing to maintain.

[kaelix1]

You don't play BM, although BM is not my fave spec it actually has a more indepth rotation than MM hunter atm.. MM hunter is quite literally 3/4 buttons and thats awfully boring as there's nothing to maintain.

Agree, pressing everything on CD while moving its sooo 'indepth'

[Kiriastrasza]

Agree, pressing everything on CD while moving its sooo 'indepth'

It has more activity than some other specs, but lets face it, all specs in WoW to some varying degree don't require any skill to play in the slightest, just the ability to rub 2 braincells together.

[kaelix1]

It has more activity than some other specs, but lets face it, all specs in WoW to some varying degree don't require any skill to play in the slightest, just the ability to rub 2 braincells together.

Then what was the point of your original post in trying to 'correct' me, in the end, you really didn't bring anything to the table, I still stand with my original post, Bm is fine where it is, its the weakest DPS spect for hunter BUT it's a spec that clear all end content, the low dps compare with SUV/MM can be excused by the huge mobility the class have, you people want the cake and eat it, would you be happy if they increase the dps and remove the mobility? i bet no

[Kiriastrasza]

Then what was the point of your original post in trying to 'correct' me, in the end, you really didn't bring anything to the table, I still stand with my original post, Bm is fine where it is, its the weakest DPS spect for hunter BUT it's a spec that clear all end content, the low dps compare with SUV/MM can be excused by the huge mobility the class have, you people want the cake and eat it, would you be happy if they increase the dps and remove the mobility? i bet no

I disagreed with your analyzation of it's a 2 button spec hence why I responded with you don't play Hunter, honestly you should probably not talk about something you know nothing about... I don't care about the DPS it's capable off but you are wrong to assume through hearsay a class is a 2 button spec.

[kaelix1]

I disagreed with your analyzation of it's a 2 button spec hence why I responded with you don't play Hunter, honestly you should probably not talk about something you know nothing about... I don't care about the DPS it's capable off but you are wrong to assume through hearsay a class is a 2 button spec.

Sorry, you are right, its a 3 buttons spec, that barbedshot management is so so complicated

[Kiriastrasza]

Sorry, you are right, its a 3 buttons spec, that barbedshot management is so so complicated

See I know you're being sarcastic and trolling at this point, but tell me what class is more complicated than that? Honestly all classes are in the same boat.

[Makaloff]

People will ask themselves why play a harder spec when an easier one gives equally good numbers?

personally i couldnt care if a specc was easy to play or not, if a specc is bottom tier and really struggles to be viable (viable is the term here, not op), then we should buff up those speccs so they atleast can be viable for endgame content. Most specc are easy to play and pretty braindead, so the old argument "oh X specc is easy to play therefore it deserves to not be viable at all" is not a good take. I dont say BM has to be buffed to high heavens like it was in BFA 8.3 but atleast buff it so it can be viable for mythic raiding.

[kaelix1]

See I know you're being sarcastic and trolling at this point, but tell me what class is more complicated than that? Honestly all classes are in the same boat.

First, im not trolling, so please duck off, if you are not capable of having a proper discussion without accusing others of 'trolling' just don't replay, there are other classes that are more complicated than BM, be them in dot and ability management/APM or simple by the huge number of abilities, classes like rogue/monk/warlock come in mind, my point was quite simple i don't get why you fell im saying that other hunter specs have a complicated rotation, aka, there is no limitation in the class, no penalties