Bronze Nexus : missed opportunity for evergreen content.

[loras]

I just used the Diablo example as a base. To make things good, it would need a lot more indeed. But it is within the possibilities of what the game can do I think. WoW has a lot more assets than Diablo so there can be a lot of world building possible, even if procedural. I don't know if you know Unity 3D (the game engine)? There is a tool that allows devs to have presets used in procedural generation. For example, if you want an Argus timeline set in Mac'Aree before Sargeras, you can have a few presets of villages, hubs and stuff. They will always be different, but each zone will have one. You can have dynamic events : in the middle of the timeline, the Legion invades and through shaders and zone effects, you add a bit of depth. The next time you visit this timeline, it can be the Void, giving the zone a completely different feel.



Yes, that was the downfall of Torghast. This type of content should be completely independant from the main game. It can have its own self contained progression path, but you shouldn't need it to raid or quest or whatever else. I too miss the iteration. It feels like nowadays, they abandon features rather than cut the parts that didn't work and build on top.



I disagree completely ahah. The game needs to reduce the hegemony of the holy trinity (Raids / Dungeons / PvP). A huge chunk of the playerbase have no interest in those activities. I barely touch them, resulting in me taking long breaks. If there were more side activities set in this world, I would play much more. I love the RPG part of the game so having a game mode that I can explore to experience parts of the lore or fun What if scenarios.
Even better if this game mode isn't made stupidly easy in a patch or two.
What's the point of adding new raids / dungeons that will start collecting dust a few months after their release?
Questing needs to be reworked, evergreen systems, more solo activity (that can be done with friends for those who don't like to play alone).
(If I misunderstood what you meant, let me know.)

I have no experience with Unity, but i do have some experience in game development and i canot help but feel like that sounds awefully optimistic, sorry.
And it would be devastating if it went wrong.

[Jeryl59]

I have no experience with Unity, but i do have some experience in game development and i canot help but feel like that sounds awefully optimistic, sorry.
And it would be devastating if it went wrong.

I think the tool to make that is GeNa in Unity. How it works is pretty simple. You set up a bunch of assets as part of a preset. Like say you want a village. You'd have an inn, a farm, a few houses, etc. Each of those can have variants in the same presets. When you generate the world with the condition three villages, the tool places 3 different villages in the generated world.
The tool also works with biomes and geographical features. And that was a few years ago. I haven't needed that for my current projects so I stopped following the progress.
It is made by a small team so, while I have no idea how the WoW engine works, it should completely be doable by Blizzard.

I am not sure it would be "devastating". Sure the first iteration would probably be a bit shallow but through iterations, I am sure, it can become a great feature with enough depth (since it is mostly a kill fest, not much depth is required anyways). But that's just my opinion.

I'd love to read what people would add to the Bronze Nexus to make it great!

[NaNaaru]

great idea
I think it should offer some continuous power progression limited only to this kind of activity-
you start with a template stats distribution with no effect of your current gear and with each run you may become a little stronger for the next time -
like getting new permanent abilities / stats buff/ "timebound" gear (gear that can only be used in this instance and might have bonus effect in certain bioms/timeline) and "timebound" legendary weapons that are also limited to this instance and are alternative timeline versions of the past expansions legendary weapons.

If it would reward cosmetics, titles, and power limited to this instance - it can create an independent scene from raiding/pvp/m+ as a player can decide to focus only on this and still feel like he's making progress

[loras]

I think the tool to make that is GeNa in Unity. How it works is pretty simple. You set up a bunch of assets as part of a preset. Like say you want a village. You'd have an inn, a farm, a few houses, etc. Each of those can have variants in the same presets. When you generate the world with the condition three villages, the tool places 3 different villages in the generated world.
The tool also works with biomes and geographical features. And that was a few years ago. I haven't needed that for my current projects so I stopped following the progress.
It is made by a small team so, while I have no idea how the WoW engine works, it should completely be doable by Blizzard.

I am not sure it would be "devastating". Sure the first iteration would probably be a bit shallow but through iterations, I am sure, it can become a great feature with enough depth (since it is mostly a kill fest, not much depth is required anyways). But that's just my opinion.

I'd love to read what people would add to the Bronze Nexus to make it great!

Eh, fair enough, it could have value though i am personally of the opinion that skilltests without depth are pointless against anything other than human opponents, hence my lack of enthousiasm for this particular approach.

However i do think that you are constructive in your ideas, so i will attempt to suspend my doubts and work with your ideas.

Personally i would involve the infinites yet more explicitly, create worlds broken and cracked like they are, see versions of the world where every alteration of time worked out exactly like they planned, and they outsmart everyone and everything, breaking the world into something beyond what even the old gods can use.

[snugglestheogre]

torghast and other abandoned stuff shouldnt be abandoned. needs made better. bronze nexus idea sounds cool. just dont make it mandatory grind for end game.

[infinitemeridian]

I'm totally in favor of this. Torghast was one of the few new pieces of content I thought could be iterated on across all expacs as a core pillar of the game for solo-play. You can use it as a place for random, "go-crazy", rogue-like content, it can be a boss-rush mode, add new mage-tower challenges here, etc.

It doesn't just have to be randomly-generated stuff, it's basically the main avenue for solo players to challenge themselves.

[Jeryl59]

Eh, fair enough, it could have value though i am personally of the opinion that skilltests without depth are pointless against anything other than human opponents, hence my lack of enthousiasm for this particular approach.

However i do think that you are constructive in your ideas, so i will attempt to suspend my doubts and work with your ideas.

Personally i would involve the infinites yet more explicitly, create worlds broken and cracked like they are, see versions of the world where every alteration of time worked out exactly like they planned, and they outsmart everyone and everything, breaking the world into something beyond what even the old gods can use.

That would be awesome indeed. Broken timelines have a lot of potential, I didn't think about having the Infinite in the mix (the Nexus was something from back when the dragons were on the Isles so my brain didn't make the leap). But yeah, that could add a bit of depth if done well. Honestly, if they put a writer or two dedicated to the Nexus, this could be a great way to add a few alt-lore in, rather than just a kill fest. Since these are self contained, the writers could go wild.

I tried to think about a way to add other players, but I couldn't work something out that doesn't turn into PvP Islands.

I'm totally in favor of this. Torghast was one of the few new pieces of content I thought could be iterated on across all expacs as a core pillar of the game for solo-play. You can use it as a place for random, "go-crazy", rogue-like content, it can be a boss-rush mode, add new mage-tower challenges here, etc.

It doesn't just have to be randomly-generated stuff, it's basically the main avenue for solo players to challenge themselves.

I am not married to the random generated idea It is simply because Torghast is the template and because it allows hundreds of possible timelines with the least amount of work. But yes, the Nexus can be everything. Some parts can be randomly generated, some can have a bit more story (see the Infinite idea from loras), you could have timelines that are set and only contain one MageTower like encounter, etc.
Having it tied to the Bronze Dragonflight makes it timeless (sorry). Elements can be added from all expansions past, present and future without them feeling out of place. Torghast can't work outside a Shadowlands setting, but the Nexus, like Chromie Time or Timewalking, can still be relevant during a Legion, Old Gods, Cosmic, etc. expansion.

I think it is way past time to have a real solo mode in this game.

[Nebron]

Duuuude, what a cool idea it is nice one!

[Jeryl59]

Thanks
I was expecting a bit of push back, but beside some valid technical concerns, the idea seem to be well received! Too bad no one from Blizzard will ever see it ahah

[Zyrinx]

I wanted to hate this idea, but unfortunately it's excellent.

[cparle87]

Yes I think not making it mandatory or tied to player progression is really important. Torghast itself, as a side activity, is pretty fun, but having to do it killed the feature for a lot of people. Blizzard needs to start making features that are just fun, with their own progression system of course, but not tied to everything else.

Then there's be a section of the playerbase who would just write it off as "not content" like they did with Poco and everything related to him. There's no line between mandatory (forced) and "not content" to way too many people.

[SoulSoBreezy]

I want like it, but I empathize with those who're just tired of Torghast, regardless of the reward structure.
Personally I'm more interested in the team going all in with outdoor content, if it's to be believed that there won't be any small group instanced content outside of dungeons. Folks've been clamoring for more dynamic events and things to chase that WQs don't fulfill while random spawning rares/events haven't scratched that itch. It'd be weird for the team to craft a world like Dragon Isles with Dragon Riding and then be like hey all the good rewards and cosmetics are in this instance, in you go for the rest of the expansion!
I think these are the lessons learned from islands (not useful outside of powering up worldvein) and Torghast (making it required). IF no other instanced features are announced, my guess is that they're giving players a break from this sort of feature.

[Jeryl59]

I wanted to hate this idea, but unfortunately it's excellent.

I am so sorry Hum, let's say that you need to run it at least 5 times a week to be able to do anything else in the game then. Better ahah?

Then there's be a section of the playerbase who would just write it off as "not content" like they did with Poco and everything related to him. There's no line between mandatory (forced) and "not content" to way too many people.

And that's ok. That's the beauty of this kind of side feature : it is not for everyone and it is completely fine. The devs need to stop making features that will be aimed at everyone. Side stuff can target segments of the playerbase.
Sure, there would be people crying about a wasted raid tier or whatever. But like I have made abondantly clear since the start, this feature is meant as something else to do besides raids, dungeons and PvP. For people like me, who only raid once in a blue moon, this feature would be content. For people who like to collect stuff, this would be content. Etc. Those that feels it is not content are halfway right : it is not content for them. And since it has no impact on their content, why do they care?
A corporation the size of ActiBlizzardMicrosoftEtc can afford a small additional team dedicated to a fourth pillar of the game. Especially for a big earner like WoW. Imagine the impact on MAUs from people like me : instead of unsub after the first two months, I'd farm the hell out of those extra mode

I want like it, but I empathize with those who're just tired of Torghast, regardless of the reward structure.
Personally I'm more interested in the team going all in with outdoor content, if it's to be believed that there won't be any small group instanced content outside of dungeons. Folks've been clamoring for more dynamic events and things to chase that WQs don't fulfill while random spawning rares/events haven't scratched that itch. It'd be weird for the team to craft a world like Dragon Isles with Dragon Riding and then be like hey all the good rewards and cosmetics are in this instance, in you go for the rest of the expansion!
I think these are the lessons learned from islands (not useful outside of powering up worldvein) and Torghast (making it required). IF no other instanced features are announced, my guess is that they're giving players a break from this sort of feature.

I'd love to have a better open world content for sure, but sadly, I am not sure what can really be done to improve it. Questing is already pretty diversified but mechanically it is limited to a few types of quests. World Quest can go and die in some dark corners ahah. If they ever manage to have a living world that changes depending on your action, I'd be happy but there is so much road to go before this can even become possible.
I don't see Dragon Riding as a big draw (from what we know so far of course), it just seems like a gimmick but I reserve my judgment until it is available. If it is just about training a dragon to play in the sky, it won't keep me subbed.
And I am not proposing to put all the cool stuff in the Nexus. Most of the collectibles from there would be recolors or HDs from the past eras of the game. You could still have stuff like the covenant sets in the open world.
But yeah, I think that they are taking a break from features like that as you said. I find it sad, but well, I am not in charge

[cparle87]

And that's ok. That's the beauty of this kind of side feature : it is not for everyone and it is completely fine. The devs need to stop making features that will be aimed at everyone. Side stuff can target segments of the playerbase.
Sure, there would be people crying about a wasted raid tier or whatever. But like I have made abondantly clear since the start, this feature is meant as something else to do besides raids, dungeons and PvP. For people like me, who only raid once in a blue moon, this feature would be content. For people who like to collect stuff, this would be content. Etc. Those that feels it is not content are halfway right : it is not content for them. And since it has no impact on their content, why do they care?
A corporation the size of ActiBlizzardMicrosoftEtc can afford a small additional team dedicated to a fourth pillar of the game. Especially for a big earner like WoW. Imagine the impact on MAUs from people like me : instead of unsub after the first two months, I'd farm the hell out of those extra mode

Oh sweet summer child. Believing that people won't see any dev time spent on anything besides what they want as a personal ttack.

[Revamp Man]

im gonna say they will add something in a patch
probably whenever they bring in the infinite

this is a really cool idea

[cuafpr]

sounds awesome actually, and makes sense being bronze flight. now keep timers out of it and make it happen blizz k tx.